After The Tones Drop

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This week, we're giving you a behind-the-scenes pass to the Tactical Tools for Thriving First Responders Symposium. (And spoiler alert—it’s not just another conference.) Erin and Cinnamon pull Kenny Schroeder—firefighter, peer supporter, all-around behind-the-scenes wizard—into the studio to talk about how this event was born, why it still matters, and how it's changing lives four years later.

We get real about the explosion of first responder wellness events lately—(which, yes, we’re thrilled about)—but also dig into the real gap that still exists: the everyday conversations, the rookies who don't know what they don't know yet, and the people stuck in the trenches thinking this is “just the way it has to be.”

Kenny talks about what it takes to shift the culture, how a single symposium literally helped him save his own life, and why it’s not about fancy vendors or swag bags—it’s about hope. It's about getting out of survival mode and into living.

Whether you're a responder, a spouse, a chief, a rookie, or someone trying to find your way back to yourself, there’s something here for you. Come for the pizza, stay for the healing.

Tactical Tools for Thriving happens May 5th in Erlanger, KY—and if you’re feeling the FOMO after this episode, there’s still time to grab your seat. Bring a friend. Grab a rookie. Grab your damn self. Let’s go.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

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This week, we sat down with our friend Giovanni Rocco, the undercover FBI agent who infiltrated the real-life DeCavalcante crime family—the same mob crew that inspired The Sopranos. But let us be clear: this episode is not just about mob takedowns and wiretaps. This is about what happens after the mission is over—when the badge comes off, the ring comes off, and the world you thought you were serving forgets your name.

From the moment Giovanni joined us, he pulled back the curtain—not just on the operation, but on the emotional wreckage that followed. He shared what it was like to live under five different identities, lie to the people he cared about most, and wake up years later unable to recognize the man he’d become. He talks about raising kids in hiding, being forced out of the home he loved, and watching the system he served treat him like a liability after his usefulness expired. If you’ve ever felt abandoned by the very thing you gave your life to—you’re going to feel this one deep in your chest.

Giovanni doesn’t just sit in the pain, though. He’s done with pity. Instead, he talks about what it means to invest in yourself—mentally, emotionally, and physically. He shares how he rebuilt himself using breathwork, reframing trauma, and staying connected to the people who could meet him where he was. He reminds us that the hardest switch isn’t going from undercover to civilian—it’s going from protector to partner, from armored up to emotionally available. And he tells us why, to this day, he still takes the ring off when he pulls into the driveway.

This is one of those conversations we’ll be thinking about for a long time. It’s gritty. It’s gut-wrenching. It’s funny in that dark, only-cops-and-clinicians-would-laugh kind of way. And most importantly—it’s real. Giovanni may have taken down the mob, but his real legacy is what he’s building now: honest connection, mental wellness, and the reminder that no one gets out of this job untouched—but no one has to heal alone either.Book

Title: Giovanni’s Ring: My Life Inside the Real Sopranos
Available at: giovannisring.com — Signed copies available

Podcast: Inside the Life
Website: insidethelife.org
Status: Season 2 currently in production

Social MediaGiovanni is available and responsive via Instagram and other social platforms (specific handles not listed but implied to be under his name).
He encourages listeners to reach out via direct message for support, speaking engagements, or collaboration.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

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In this intimate, off-the-cuff solo episode, Cinnamon sneaks into the mic without Erin knowing—and we’re so glad she did. What starts as a quiet confession turns into a deeply moving reflection on sobriety, storytelling, and one unforgettable bear.

Cinnamon shares the story that helped her get sober in 2011—a darkly hilarious, soul-punching short story by David Sedaris that spoke to her in a way nothing else could. As she reads The Motherless Bear aloud, you’ll laugh, cringe, maybe cry—but more than anything, you’ll see yourself somewhere in the mess of it.

What hits hardest is what comes after: Cinnamon’s reflections on addiction, emotional numbing, and how sometimes the thing we’re avoiding is smaller than the wreckage we cause trying not to feel it.

This episode is more than a story. It’s a love letter to rock bottoms, raw truth, and the weird little moments that somehow end up saving us.

What You'll Hear:

• The story that helped Cinnamon get sober
• What addiction really protects us from
• Why humor can hit you straight in the gut
• The danger of getting stuck in your own story
• A reminder that healing doesn’t always look heroic—and that’s okay

Takeaway of the Week:

The pain you’re avoiding might be small, but the damage caused by avoiding it can be massive. Feel the thing. Don’t become the dancing bear.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

This week on After the Tones Drop, we’re sitting down with someone who tells it exactly like it is—retired NYPD officer Vincent Scotto. With 20 years of experience in one of the most intense law enforcement environments in the country, Vin brings a level of honesty, grit, and self-awareness that hits different. He doesn’t just talk about the job—he talks about what happens after the job, when the structure disappears, the camaraderie fades, and you’re left to sort through the emotional wreckage on your own.

Vin shares how growing up around the job shaped his path, what the department culture used to be like, and how that culture has shifted into something colder, more disconnected—and more dangerous to mental health. But this episode isn’t about pointing fingers. It’s about accountability. Vin gets real about the double life he was living, the inner unraveling that came with it, and the moment a clinician told him he’d gone from a rock to a pebble—and he believed it.

This episode is for the first responder who’s struggling to stay afloat. It’s for the one who feels betrayed by their own agency. It’s for anyone who knows how painful it is to show up with heart and get shut down by the system. Vin reminds us that you don’t need rank to be a leader—you just need to drown out the noise, check your ego, and lead with love. And that kind of leadership? It’s contagious.

Want to work with Vin? You can find him on LinkedIn under Vincent Scotto, or reach out directly at [email protected]. (And yes—ladies in blue, you're very much included.)

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Alright, let’s get real. How many times have you sat there, paralyzed by a decision, convinced that one wrong move is going to send your entire life into a downward spiral? (Looking at you, late-night overthinkers.) Well, Cinnamon’s taking the wheel in this episode, and she’s bringing some serious perspective shifts.

What if there’s no such thing as a “right” or “wrong” decision? What if every choice—good, bad, or straight-up questionable—just leads you down a different road with its own set of lessons? Ever think about how many times you’ve chosen one route and hit every damn red light, only to realize that the road not taken could’ve had a six-car pileup? Yeah. Let that sink in.

In this episode, we’re challenging the myth of perfect choices and unpacking:

• How hindsight bias makes us glorify the “what if” road
• Why a pro/con list is basically lying to you
• How curiosity—not fear—should be driving your lifeAnd why we all need to stop expecting every road to be a freaking smooth cruise

Bottom line? Stop beating yourself up over the choices you made. Every decision, every misstep, and every unexpected detour is a damn good chapter in your story. Now, buckle up and press play. 

Takeaway of the Week:
You’ve survived every single choice you’ve made so far—so what makes you think you won’t survive the next one?

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Alright, friends, here we are—the final round of our After the Tones Drop 100th episode celebration. Part C, the big finish. And if Parts A & B took you on an emotional rollercoaster, this one is the comedy club you didn’t know you needed. We packed the room with some of our most legendary guests, and things got real fast—laughs, deep conversations, and maybe a few inappropriate jokes.

This episode brings back Chris Perry, the man behind Episode 70, Full Throttle Freedom, who’s still as patriotic as ever and pushing the needle on first responder mental health. William Young, from Episodes 48 and 59, Jailhouse Rock, is back reminding us why corrections officers deserve a seat at the table in the mental health conversation. Ricardo Martinez II, Episode 68, Call Me Maybe, and the voice behind Within the Trenches and the I Am 911 movement, joins us to talk about the power of storytelling in first responder wellness. And rounding out the guest list, Jason Callihan, the very first guest from Episode 1, Strength in Numbers, who played a huge role in launching this whole thing into existence, shares what peer support looks like when it’s done right.

We get into everything—what’s changed since these guests first joined us, what’s still frustrating as hell, and why the biggest obstacle to first responder wellness is often ourselves. We talk about how older generations might secretly be on board with mental health but are too stubborn to say it out loud, the importance of recognizing post-traumatic growth alongside PTSD, and how real change in first responder culture is happening, even if it’s moving at a crawl.

This episode is full of unfiltered, unscripted truth. It’s got heart, humor, and a room full of people who get it—people who have lived this work, fought through their own battles, and refuse to let the system stay broken. We love you. We see you. And we are so damn grateful for 100 episodes.

We’re Not Stopping Here. This isn’t just a celebration of 100 episodes—it’s a reminder of why we do this. We keep fighting, we keep lifting each other up, and we keep telling the truth, even when it’s ugly. Thank you for being part of this journey.

💬 Keep the Conversation Going: We’d love to hear your thoughts on this milestone episode! Tag us @AfterTheTonesDrop and share your favorite moments. Got a story to tell? We’re always listening.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Welcome back to Part B of our 100th episode celebration! If you thought Part A was powerful, you’re in for a real treat here. This episode dives even deeper into the struggles, the triumphs, and the raw honesty that our guests bring. We’re talking real change in the first responder world—personal transformation, shifting the culture, and the tough work of showing up even when it feels like the world’s against you.

We’re joined by Tim Sears, who shares his journey through inpatient treatment, retirement, and his ongoing commitment to his own wellness. Tim’s vulnerability in admitting when it’s time to take a step back and care for himself is a reminder for all of us—there’s no shame in needing help. Jason Warn brings us back to a time when everything fell apart, and he found himself at rock bottom again. It’s the kind of honesty that’s hard to come by, but that’s exactly why it matters. Monica Braun continues to be a beacon of strength, using her experience to help others—she’s speaking to new recruits, sharing her story, and breaking the stigma every chance she gets. And we can’t forget Michael Sugrue, who’s no stranger to hardship. After facing an unimaginable family tragedy, Michael walks us through how he found his way back to hope and continues to serve with strength. Lastly, Vance Row keeps the energy high, sharing how yoga has become an essential tool in his own recovery and why it’s something every first responder should consider incorporating into their lives.

These voices—these leaders—are showing us what real change looks like. It’s messy, it’s difficult, and it takes time. But it’s happening. Slowly, but surely, the culture is shifting. In this episode, our guests remind us that we’re in this together, and that change begins when we step up, own our stories, and do the work.

Stay Connected:

Listen, share, and let’s keep this conversation going. The more we talk about these things, the more lives we can change. Keep showing up for yourself, and keep showing up for each other. The work isn’t over. We’re just getting started.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

We made it to our 100th episode, and we couldn’t be more excited to celebrate with you all! For this milestone, we’re bringing back 14 incredible guests in a 3 part series who have each made a significant impact not just on our show, but in the lives of many. These individuals are true advocates—those who’ve walked through the fire and emerged with the strength, wisdom, and compassion to help others. Their stories are proof that vulnerability, resilience, and community are the key to healing and growth.

This is Part A of our 3-part anniversary celebration, and it’s packed with powerful insights. We’re catching up with these guests to find out where they are now and what they’ve been up to since their original appearances. From new books to life-changing milestones, this episode is all about reflecting on the journey, sharing wins, and offering the tough love that helps us all keep moving forward.

We’re joined by AK Dozanti a retired law enforcement officer and author who just released her book, Beat the Burnout. AK opens up about pushing through imposter syndrome to share her story and the catharsis that came with writing a book designed to help others recover from burnout. Brian Gillespie, a retired law enforcement officer and Marine Corps veteran, shares his experience reaching 10 years of sobriety and how prioritizing self-care has become a game-changer in both his personal life and his advocacy work. Larry Turner, a retired law enforcement officer and military veteran, talks about his ongoing work with Save A Warrior and how his journey through vulnerability and healing has shaped the way he supports others. Kenny Mitchell, a retired firefighter and the founder of Operation Yellow Tape, reflects on the incredible growth of his initiative and the number of people reaching out for help, including the spouses and families of first responders. And we also have Tommy Bolin, a retired firefighter and soon-to-be published author, who gives us a sneak peek into his upcoming book that connects public service professionals across the board in their mental health journeys.

This episode is packed with lessons on vulnerability, purpose, and the importance of showing up for one another. It's a reminder that no one has to walk this path alone, and together, we can keep fighting for better mental health in the first responder community.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Alright, friends, it’s just me, Erin, flying solo today, and we’re diving into a topic that might just save some relationships—or at least prevent a few unnecessary arguments. Ever found yourself in a conversation with your spouse, coworker, or friend and walked away wondering, what the hell just happened? You’re not alone. Today, we’re unpacking the science behind why men and women process the world so differently, and spoiler alert—it’s not just some outdated stereotype. It’s biology, baby.

Believe it or not, our brains are wired differently before we even leave the womb. While men’s brains are built for focus, problem-solving, and risk assessment, women’s brains are firing on all cylinders for multitasking, emotional processing, and communication. This isn’t about one being better than the other; it’s about understanding how those differences play out in real life. From the infamous Nothing Box that men retreat to (yes, it’s a real thing) to why women can’t help but pick up on every little emotional shift in the room, we’re breaking it all down.

So if you’ve ever been frustrated that your partner doesn’t seem to listen when the game is on or you can’t figure out why they don’t just talk about their feelings already—this episode is for you. We’re taking it back to the caveman days, digging into neuroscience, and giving you some tools to work with these differences instead of against them. Because, let’s be real—understanding why your brain does what it does (and why theirs does something totally different) might just change the game.

What You'll Learn:

• Why men and women’s brains are wired differently (and how it started in utero)
• The evolutionary reasons behind how we process emotions and stress
• What the infamous Nothing Box is and why women can’t seem to find one
• Why men laser-focus on one task while women juggle 20 things at once
• How understanding these differences can make your relationships smoother, not harder

Takeaway of the Week:
Stop trying to change each other and start working with the differences instead of against them. Next time she vents, just listen—no fixing necessary. And ladies, when he zones out, don’t take it personally—he’s just off visiting his Nothing Box. Understanding the way our brains work might just make life (and love) a whole lot easier.

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE

Send us Fan Mail

Alright, folks—we’re back with Part 2 of our powerhouse conversation with Sean McCallum, and if you thought last week’s episode was a game-changer, just wait.

If you missed Part 1, go back and listen because we laid the groundwork for this one—identity shifts, trauma integration, and why first responders get stuck in old patterns. Now, we’re diving straight into the COPE Stress Management Model, aka the CPR for Stress. Sean and his colleague, Johnny Ward, developed COPE as a simple but powerful tool for first responders to manage stress before, during, and after a critical incident—because let’s be real, nobody is handing firefighters, medics, or cops a playbook on how to process what they see on the job.

Sean breaks down what COPE actually stands for—Control, Orientation, Processing, and Emotions—and how responders can use it in real time to avoid getting stuck in the mental loops that lead to burnout and PTSD. He also drops some serious truth bombs on why we need to stop teaching avoidance in therapy, the difference between distraction and repression, and how empowering first responders with the right tools could actually change the way we handle trauma in the field.

We also get into a wild discussion on metapsychology, trauma integration, and why therapy shouldn’t be about “mastering” someone else’s experience. Oh, and somewhere in there, Sean teaches us new British slang, we geek out over A Course in Miracles, and Erin & Cinnamon once again prove they are the firehouse’s long-lost crew members.

Why You Need to Listen

• Learn how the COPE Model can help you stay grounded before, during, and after critical incidents
• Why trauma isn’t a life sentence—and why getting through it is the only way out
• The biggest mistakes we make when treating first responders—and how we can fix them
• Why nodding, reacting, and “being supportive” might actually make trauma worse (Yeah, we had to sit with that one for a minute.)
• Firefighter banter, accidental British slang lessons, and a side quest about Save a Warrior UK

Sean McCallum is changing the game when it comes to first responder mental health, and we are here for it. 

DISCLAIMER:
After the Tones Drop is shared for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes. It does not provide therapy, medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment, and listening does not create a therapist-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the individual speaking. If you need support, please reach out to a qualified professional or emergency services in a crisis. You can also visit our shows resources page for an abundance of helpful information. 

ATTD Music Credits (Music from #Uppbeat): 

•  Our theme music is Intentions by Abby Noise, licensed through Upbeat
•  https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/adventure-is-calling License code: ANJCYVHRMULSNKQR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/vens-adams/rise-of-the-hero License code: H4WTAGJZIXZCM8DM
• https://uppbeat.io/t/yeti-music/homewardLicense code: KO7FZAIJBAEAJLKE
• https://uppbeat.io/t/sonda/the-heart-grows License code: KAID0ITO96GJZAPS
• https://uppbeat.io/t/philip-anderson/achievement License code: XZ4PMCKHW94GUR74
• https://uppbeat.io/t/tobias-voigt/nexus
  License code: MVMDRGHKHTJRABVR
• https://uppbeat.io/t/paul-yudin/breakthrough
  License code: FYPM3OJF0NQ4OGTE