Good agencies measure performance — of their projects, their business, and their employees.

On this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich examine why employee goals matter, as well as how to set them appropriately.

Quotes

* Chip, on the importance of good manager judgement: “Employee reviews are not an algorithm…. [you] shouldn’t have a fixed formula that you use because there’s all sorts of times where someone may technically reach their objectives, but they didn’t really get the spirit of it.”* Gini, on applying KPI reviews to compensation: “There is some human piece to it. It’s not just an algorithm that helps you decide who’s going to get a raise and a promotion.”* Chip, on unintended consequences of quantitative goals: “If you’re managing towards [a specific] number, and that’s the only way you’re looking at it, employees have a tendency to try to hit those numbers any way they can.”* Gini, on creating custom KPI’s for team members: “One size does not fit all fit all. But it’s something you should be thinking about. And there’s probably should be at least three if not four different areas that you’re considering, as you think about KPIs and metrics for your, for your team.”

Resources

* Measure What Matters by John Doerr* AIM-GET Framework for Agency Success* Spin Sucks Community on Slack

Transcript

The following is a lightly-edited computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin,

GINI: and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: Gini, how are we doing? What, how are our metrics looking these days? are we are we hitting our KPIs? What should we be doing different?

GINI: We really should have set KPIs for ourselves. But we did not at the beginning of this.So…

CHIP: We set an important KPI, to have fun.

GINI: And we are having fun.

CHIP: We are.

GINI: I guess we could look at number of downloads, number of reviews. But that’s that’s pretty… I don’t feel like that’s very quantitative either. So it’s an interesting topic, that’s for sure.

CHIP: Well, the problem with podcasts is that the the downloads typically will increase over time, almost no matter what you do, because people subscribe to them. They may not actually listen, though, and it’s very difficult to get accurate listenership data from a lot of services. So any case, I’m just gonna say we’re doing fantastic, Gini, you are a great co host.

GINI: You’re a great co host. Look at that.

CHIP: Wow. You know, but that it’s a good segue into talking about our actual topic today, which is indeed KPIs but not of this show. And instead of agency employees, because everybody needs to evaluate their employees, figure out what’s working, what isn’t, who’s working and who isn’t. And so that was a question that you put to the Spin Sucks Community recently.

GINI: Yes, I asked what are the metrics you use to measure employees work and effectiveness and ultimately decide if they’ll get ...

Every agency comes across a potential client that simply isn’t a good fit. In a previous episode, Chip and Gini discussed how important it is to walk away from prospects and clients that don’t match up with the agency’s needs.

But how do you do that well?

On this show, Chip and Gini look at how you can effectively refer these prospects to other agencies in your network. They will share the experiences of other agency owners, as well as offering their own advice.

“One of the important things for a lot of agency owners to overcome is that too many agency owners view other agencies as their competitors. And as soon as they start thinking competitor, they think enemy. And that’s really not true,” explains Chip.

Gini shares how she used to think that way, but came around to seeing opportunities with other agencies. “[I thought] wait a second, we can all do work together. And if they don’t have the capacity, or it’s not the right client for them, and vice versa, we can certainly share the wealth.”

Transcript

The following is a lightly edited automated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin,

GINI: and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: And we’re here to tell you how to politely say no. Because we’re very polite people, aren’t we, Gini?

GINI: We are very polite. Well, I’m polite anyway, I don’t know about you, but – actually I do know. Oh, right – I promised I wouldn’t make fun of you until July, I’m sorry.

CHIP: 19 seconds in and you you already can’t live up to it, you’re gonna be taking shots.

GINI: Can’t live up to it! All right, July.

CHIP: Yes. So obviously, from time to time, we have to say no to prospects. And that’s something that we’ve talked about in a previous episode, you know why it’s important to do so. But today, we’re going to talk about exactly how you do it. And we’re going to share some feedback that we got from – guess where?-

GINI: The Spin Sucks community, woo hoo!

CHIP: Because it is the place to be. And so, Gini, the feedback we got, I think was was really helpful. And hopefully, is folks listen, they’ll get some ideas to as to how they can politely say no to prospects while not burning bridges, because I think that’s really important as well.

GINI: Yeah. And I mean, I would say that the majority of people said, it’s pretty easy to say, you know, we’re not the right fit for you. But let me refer you to so and so. So, then that’s typically what we do, as well, as we, you know, we have three or four we’ll, we’ll recommend or refer to three or four. So they can make a decision. And it doesn’t make it look like we’re just favoring one agency. But we do have for sure, have a roster of people who we’ve worked with or know who have good reputations, or you know, our friends, of course, but that’s across the board, pretty much everybody said was, you know, we’re, we’re not the right fit for you. But let me make a referral for you. Or let me make a recommendation and whether or not they take that is up to them, but at least you’re you’re maintaining the relationship and not being like, no, sorry, you suck, we’re not working with you.

CHIP: Right. And it look, it’s it is, as we’ve discussed previously important to understand who you’re a good fit for, and only do work for those clients for whom you are a good fit. And so referring them off, hopefully actually gives them a better experience in the short term,

A participant in the Spin Sucks Community asked if other agency owners negotiate with prospective clients.

It sparked some great conversation on the Slack channel, so Chip and Gini decided to address the topic on this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast.

Here’s the original question from an agency owner:

I just finished listening to a podcast and a question popped into my head. I’m still pretty new to this but I haven’t had any prospect or client try negotiate with me yet over pricing. I’m just curious. How many of you when you give a price for services do it anticipating that your client is going to negotiate? If so, how do you do this? Start at a certain percentage above what you know line is?….

Chip’s immediate reply was: “if they haven’t pushed back at all, you’re not charging enough.”

Of course, it’s more complicated than that. You might even say, “it depends.”

The hosts emphasized that agencies need to hold firm on pricing and not allow it turn into a bazaar where everything is negotiable.

Gini explained it this way: “I look at at at it just like you would in a restaurant. You don’t go in and say to the chef, I think I’m going to decide how much I’ll pay for this meal after I eat. It’s not how it works, the price the price.”

Instead, Chip and Gini explained that every adjustment in price needs to have a corresponding change in the scope of work. Otherwise you risk clients feeling overcharged or knowing they can always take advantage of you.

They discuss how agency owners can handle clients who want to low-ball price, when to start talking about costs with prospects, and how to hold firm even when you really want the business.

Transcript

The following is an automated transcript with only light editing. Please listen to the audio to verify accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI: and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: And today we’re going to negotiate with you, our listeners, to see if you’re willing to continue paying all you pay to listen to us blabber on every week.

GINI: We’re getting pretty organized about this though I would say.

CHIP: You know, it’s – we’ve made progress since last October when we got started. We no longer make decisions just on the fly like, hey, Gini, what do you want to talk about today?

GINI: Well today, I’m feeling like…

CHIP: Yes, we were doing a much better job. Hopefully it comes through to you, the listener, we’d love to hear your feedback as to whether it is or not, but we are we’re doing a much better job of putting questions out particularly in the Spin Sucks community.

GINI: So we have a nice question from somebody in the agency owner channel in the Spin Sucks community. And he says, I just finished listening to a podcast. So the question popped into my head. I’m still pretty new to this. But I haven’t had a prospect or client trying to negotiate with me yet over pricing. I’m just curious, how many of you when you give a price for services, do it anticipating that your client is going to negotiate? if so how do you do this? Start at a certain percentage of what you know your bottom line is? Or what…?

CHIP: And that is an absolutely fantastic question. Because I know it’s on the minds of lots of agency owners and executives as they as they try to figure out pricing. And I think it opens up a number of different topics. And and, and obviously in the discussion that took place in the Spin Sucks community, there was a variety of opinions and further questions that came out. So hopefully this will provide some some good meat for us to talk about over ...

Chip and Gini tackle an issue at the heart of the success of all PR and marketing agencies: profit margins.

During this episode, the pair examine:

* Tracking profit at the project level

* Monitoring overall agency profitability

* Getting the profit percentage by using the right data

* Finding ways to improve profitability

The Spin Sucks Community contributed greatly to this discussion and their feedback is at the heart of this episode. In particular, Greg Brooks of West Third Group shared a number of key points that Chip and Gini explore in-depth.

Gini and her team talk to a lot of agency owners. “One of the questions we ask is: what was your profit last year? And I would venture to guess 90% can’t answer that question,” she says.

Meanwhile, Chip warns against assuming that big invoices are always a good idea. “A mistake that I see a lot of agencies make is that they assume because it’s a big project, that means lots of profit for the bottom line. But quite often, it’s just the opposite.”

Transcript

The following is an automated transcript with only light editing. Please listen to the audio to verify accuracy.

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI: and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: And we’re here today to talk about profit margins and how you look at those as an agency owner.

GINI: Money, money, money, money, I love money, money, it makes me happy.

CHIP: It makes me happy too. And it’s something that’s very important. Agencies are not around very long if they don’t turn a profit, as it turns out.

GINI: That is true. Although I have learned some interesting lessons in my 14 year career of owning an agency. And that – those – among those lessons are, you can have in the red years, where you’re not making any money and still survive. Also, you can go bankrupt, not that we did that, I watched your friend do it and still survive. So very interesting lessons, I think in agency ownership overall, but not what we’re here to talk about today.

CHIP: Not what we’re here to talk about, because we want to help folks have higher profit margins. And so that that really comes down to thinking about profit. And this a question that we put to the Spin Sucks community to, to see what they thought, how they are taking a look at profits in their own agencies, how they think about it. And I think we got some really good advice out of that conversation. And probably you and I have a few other things to add to it as well.

GINI: Yeah, I think you know, there’s a few things that people are doing. In general, everybody has it in a spreadsheet, which I find fascinating. And I will tell you that I went two years ago, I went through a process of trying to find something that would connect with QuickBooks that would give cash flow projections and allow you to easily look at profit margins by client, QuickBooks does not do it very well. And there really isn’t anything out there. So every pretty much everybody said, they’re they’re tracking in spreadsheets, which I found fascinating. But, you know, there’s a couple of things that people are doing, they’re looking at it as a company overall. And they’re looking at it by client or by project. So you know, where you’re over servicing, where you’re giving time away, and where you’re actually making money.

CHIP: And I think that’s absolutely essential to do it on the client and project level.

GINI: Yeah, I agree.

CHIP: It’s a real mistake to do it simply at the the full company, the full agency level, because that doesn’t really give you visibility into what kinds of projects you should be seeking,

Most agencies want their employees to get involved in developing new business, but how do you properly reward them when they do? That’s the subject that Chip and Gini explore in this week’s episode.

Gini says the key is that “you certainly want to incentivize people and incentivize them at a level that they want to participate in business development and can participate in business development, but also not eat into your profitability.”

Whatever plan you come up with, Chip advises, “you have to have a policy in writing on something like this. Anytime you have a commission scheme involving employees, put it in writing, so that there’s no misunderstanding.”

Chip also says that agency owners need to remember that “whatever you’re incentivizing is what you will tend to get, and so if you are incentivizing revenue, people will do whatever they can to acquire that revenue, regardless of how profitable it is.”

Gini underscored that “this is another situation where it depends, and it depends on who’s on your team and what they’re motivated by.”

In the end, the best principle may be to keep it simple because “you don’t want it to be so complex that nobody understands it,” explains Chip.

Transcript

CHIP:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI:

and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP:

And today we’re going to be paying a commission, not to you or me, Gini, not to the listeners, we’ve already established that I – that you’re cheap? – But but instead commissions for employees or others who are bringing in business for agencies, that is the topic of today’s show.

GINI:

Love his topic, and it’s I think it’s an important one, because you certainly want to incentivize people and incentivize them at a level that they want to participate in business development and can participate in business development, but also not eat into your profitability.

CHIP:

Exactly. If you end up with a commission plan that that makes you lose money, that’s probably not a good model for the long term. Not going to lead to a lot of success. But this is this is clearly a topic that resonates with agency owners, because you had thrown it out recently in the Spin Sucks community Slack channel. There we go. See if I can say that correctly.

Yeah, for some reason, my my brain froze on it. But yes, it’s the Slack community for Spin Sucks. And it’s a great place. And so you threw it out there and said, you know, how are people handling it. And I got to say, we got a very strong response on this one.

GINI:

Say that five times fast.

We did. And I think there was some pretty good consensus too, it seems to be 10% seems to be the number. But it was interesting to see how it was broken down. So some people said 10% of the first year’s revenue for the client. Some people said, 10% of the first year’s income for the client. Somebody said at my old shop, the referral fee was 10% of the first month’s retainer after the client was in good standing for 90 days. And then someone else said, we pay 10% of the gross for the life of the contract, which – but it’s across the board it was 10%. So you know, it varied – the how it fit in varied, but across the board, it was 10%.

CHIP:

So people, people like the concept of tithing, it’s just what are you tithing?

GINI:

Right.

CHIP:

And the what you’re what you’re taking that 10% from, I think, is important. And obviously, an agency may choose to do something other than 10, you could do 8 or 12, there’s frankly, no magic, you know, to any particular number, it’s figuring out how it works within your overall ...

Chip and Gini discuss an uncomfortable topic for many agency owners: how and when to say no to prospects and fire clients.

It all comes down to the right fit. Successful agencies make sure that they can meet the expectations of their clients — and do so profitably.

Those agencies that really excel also make sure that they can tell a clear, consistent story with their client roster.

And that means saying no to new business and letting clients go.

Gini says agency owners need to ask themselves, “Can you deliver? Are their expectations wacky or not? Does your team have the capacity?”

She explains why it is important to turn down and walk away from business: “When you say no, it allows you to say yes to the right kinds of clients.”

Chip notes that “the irony is, by firing your client or saying no to a prospect, you have almost unintentionally increased your credibility, and in some ways, probably increased the perceived value of what you’re providing, because it is pretty uncommon for service providers to tell a client or prospect to go away.”

He explained that many agency owners just keep servicing the same clients and responding to whatever business comes in because it’s the easiest route to take. However, he warns that “momentum is the enemy of good business decision making.”

“It is definitely hard to turn business away. It’s definitely hard to fire clients, but it always works out in the end — always,” Gini says.

Transcript

CHIP:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI:

and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP:

And today we’re going to teach you how to turn down revenue, just say no to money.

GINI:

The opposite of Jerry Maguire…”show me the money!”

CHIP:

“Hide your money!” This is this is the this is funny because most agency owners that I talk with are looking to increase their revenue. And so instead, we’re going to help you figure out how to say no to revenue, but in the long term, it will actually help you out. And the specific topic we’re going to be discussing is, how do you say no to prospects who are a bad fit? And how do you fire existing clients when they are no longer a good fit?

GINI:

You know, I tell this story a lot, and the poor guy, I kind of feel bad for him if he knew I told the story. But many, many years ago, it was two weeks before Christmas. And the prospect called, and he gave me his story and said, You know, I just really need some PR help, because I had a meeting with Target last week. And they told me that if I don’t sell out of my product that they have on their shelves by Christmas, that I’m not going to be back in Target starting in January. So really need to have some PR, the front page of the New York Times will be great, because then we can sell our the product, it won’t be an issue. And I remember thinking, Okay, not exactly how it works. And I may have said something to him, like, Are you are you planning on, you know, assassinating the president of the United States? And he said no. And I said, because that’s really the only way you’re going to get the front page of the New York Times. But I ended up having to turn it down. Because A, his expectations were completely out of whack and B, that wasn’t something that we could do. So it wasn’t an ideal client for us. And it wasn’t a situation that I wanted to put my team in. And I feel really I still to this day, feel really bad. And I don’t know if the poor guy made it or not. But like the there are times where you’re going to have to make that decision.

Chip and Gini take a look at why you need to treat your own agency as if it were a client — and how to do that most effectively.

This episode includes feedback from the Spin Sucks and Agency Leadership communities on Slack where agency owners have shared their own stories of how they operationalize the concept.

During this episode, you will learn:

* How to use your own agency as an R&D tool

* How you can empower up-and-coming leaders within your agency

* How to turn agency self-care into new revenue

* How one major technology company uses its own product — and what agency owners can learn from this

A few notable quotes:

“If you’ve got an up and comer who you’d like to assign to a third party client in the near future, have them run your internal client service team for your own agency.” – Chip

“That’s how Spin Sucks was created. We did it as an experiment to see if this blogging thing that everybody was talking about was something that we could offer to clients. And here we are.” – Gini

“Why make the client the guinea pig if you can be your own?” – Chip

Transcript

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI: and I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: And we’re here today to talk about your agency’s most important client. Do you know what that is, Gini?

GINI: Uh, your agency.

CHIP: Bingo. You know you listened to our pre-production meeting. I’m so glad. It’s always good when we’re on the same page as co-hosts, because otherwise it can be pretty confusing.

GINI: I have to tell you, though, before we start that I was in a meeting earlier today, and Kathryn Mason was there. And I said to somebody, they asked a question, and I said, Well, it really depends. And Kathryn goes: So you’ve been around Chip Griffin too long. And then I went, and it depends. There you go. You’re famous.

CHIP: In fairness, I have to say I am not the person who invented that. No, but but but it is it is one I use, quite liberally it

GINI: It did come up. So I thought it was funny.

CHIP: Excellent. Well, just proof positive that at least one person listens all the way through to the end of the podcast. Most of you are probably debating whether to hit the stop button and skip to your next podcast right now. Please don’t, this is going to be a great episode, I promise you we’ve actually come prepared. We’ve got lots of meat to talk about. It’s this is this is not going to be one of our off the cuff episodes, we’ve given it some serious thought.

GINI: I feel like you just gave our secret away. I don’t think people know it’s off the cuff.

CHIP: No, but it turns out some people do notice because I had a listener last week say “you know, I really liked the ones where you have really concrete action items for me, and you give us a lot of detail.” And so I said So what you’re saying is sometimes we just kind of blabber on and don’t say anything all that useful. Got it? I understand what you’re saying.

GINI: Alright. Fair.

CHIP: So, in any case, yes, the look, the as an agency, it is really important that you take the the skills and the expertise that you have and look inward with it and not simply provide it to third party clients, because that is at the core of how you will be successful over the long term.

GINI: Sure. Yeah, it’s it’s interesting, because it’s a tough one. Because certainly, if you have a team inside your agency that focuses on your agency,

Most agencies begin as one-person shows. But to grow and expand — and keep the owner sane — it can’t stay that way forever. That’s the challenge that Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich tackle in this week’s episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast.

Clients who originally signed up with an individual naturally want to maintain that access even as the agency takes on more clients and employees.

But that doesn’t scale.

Owners need to focus their time to work on the business, not in it.

That doesn’t mean that there’s not a place for owners to step in and work on client service, but Chip and Gini explain how to position the team for success and set the right expectations with clients.

During this episode, you will hear:

* Specific examples of cases where agency owners struggled with this challenge.

* Detailed explanations of why it will hold back growth and make the owner miserable.

* Strategies for dealing with the inevitable desire of an owner to micromanage projects.

* Process improvements that will make it easier to escape the “agency of one” trap.

* Personal stories of how Chip and Gini have addressed this issue in their own agency businesses.

A few notable quotes include:

* “You do have to put priority on coaching and mentoring a team to be able to do the same level of work that you do.” – Gini

* “You have to be needed, but not necessary. In other words, you have to bring something to the table, you can’t be in a situation where you’re worthless to your own agency, there needs to be some there there.” – Chip

* “If I were going to do it, again, I would not put my name on the door.” – Gini

* “As an agency owner, if you want to help your team grow, if you want to help build the relationship between your subordinates and the client, that means you have to shut up and just be the pretty face.” – Chip

Transcript

CHIP: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

GINI: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP: And we’re here today, two of us, to talk about not being an agency of one. I think that makes sense, right? Yes.

And it’s very important because as agency, you know, we’ve talked before about accidental agency owners and starting out on your own, and, you know, you, you, you, all of a sudden have more clients. And so now you’re adding employees and contractors and all that. But, you know, that often means that you haven’t created a strategy to go beyond being you as the agency, and frankly, most agency owners have their name on the door. So…what do you do?

GINI: Right. Also kind of a mistake, as I’ve learned, it’s hard, you know, I was talking to a friend a couple of months ago, and she was like, ah, and she’s, she has a significant business, I think they do, they’ll do four and a half or $5 million this year. So she, you know, she has some employees. And she was like, Oh, I’m so frustrated, because I’ve asked my account executive time and time again, to stop putting our logo on every page of a proposal, it only knows needs to go on the first page. And she’s going on and on on this rant. And I just looked at her and I smiled, and I said, I feel like at this point in your life, of your agency life, you probably don’t need to be worried about that anymore. So they put the logo on every page, don’t you have other things to worry about. But I think that that’s what we tend to do is we don’t we get caught up in maintaining control and not wanting to get delegate, and nobody does it as well as we do. And so we get we get mired in this all this minutia that doesn’t help us grow,

As Gini returns from a vacation of her own, she and Chip discuss the pros and cons of unlimited paid time off (PTO) policies for agency employees.

Gini has implemented such an approach in her own business, while Chip has simply taken a lax approach to counting days instead of a full-blown open-ended plan.

What works and what doesn’t when it comes to unlimited PTO? How do you avoid abuse, plan for agency needs (especially on small teams), and still deliver on the promise of unshackled time off?

Transcript

CHIP:

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

GINI:

And I’m Gini Dietrich.

CHIP:

And Gini is back from vacation. Welcome back, Gini.

GINI:

Thanks.

CHIP:

Isn’t it good to be back?

GINI:

Oh, yeah. I really love the dark, cloudy, rainy, cold weather here. It’s amazing.

CHIP:

You do know you live in Chicago, right?

GINI:

But you know, by April you would think that we’d start to have some spring. But no, it’s still cold. No.

CHIP:

Yeah, well, it’s you know, as some listeners know, I’m a baseball umpire and it is it is baseball season here in New Hampshire. Although we still have my grass is about one third snow-covered still, in my yard.

GINI:

Is it really?

CHIP:

Yeah, yeah, but we were supposed to have some some baseball, some varsity scrimmages this past weekend. But they – the field wasn’t, wasn’t dried out enough from the melted snow yet to play. But usually the first couple of weeks of the season, you know, I have at least one game that I’m umpiring while it’s snowing. So, you know, usually just flurries at that point. But it’s it is awfully fun standing out there as an umpire in the freezing cold freezing.

GINI:

Yeah, that sounds miserable.

CHIP:

Or maybe nice cold rain. You know? They tell you that April showers bring May flowers, but the April showers just make you damn cold when you’re standing out there in them. Doing nothing.

GINI:

Yes. Yes. That’s terrible. Actually, you know what, I have a great story, which I won’t tell here because it’s long. But a couple of years ago, I did a 400 mile bike ride in the middle of May. And it was 40 degrees and raining and hailing and even when you’re moving, not so much fun.

CHIP:

Well, I would think particularly because when you’re on a bike, I mean, that’s really gonna cool you off.

Unknown

Yeah it’s pretty scary actually. Yeah. It’s not fun.

CHIP:

I like doing distance running. But that you know, you usually warm up when you run.

GINI:

Right. Right.

CHIP:

But cycling usually cool off because you’re taking so much…

GINI:

Yep. Yeah, not fun. Oh, yeah.

CHIP:

Yeah, not not not a good idea. But…

GINI:

Yeah, so it was nice and warm and sunny in Miami, as you would expect. And then I came home to not nice and warm and sunny.

CHIP:

I’m just I’m glad that you returned.

GINI:

It was hit or miss there for a bit I get I’m gonna be honest, was a little hit or miss. I would like you know, I think everything’s set up appropriately at the agency. It can just run itself, right? Yeah, why not? Send me my checks, we’re good.

CHIP:

Yeah. And and and I’m sure that the thought of having to record one of these podcasts was like, Oh, no, that’s it – no. Don’t want to do that. I, I want to stay here on the beach.

GINI:

Actually, that thought did not cross my mind.

CHIP:

Because you didn’t think about this podcast at all. So I guess on the plus side, you didn’t have a negative thought about it,

In the second part of a special two episode series, Chip and Gini discuss fundamental skills that PR and marketing agency owners should spend time and effort to improve to be more successful.

The topic was first raised by Gini on her Spin Sucks Podcast.

The skills she identifies include:

* Networking

* Financials

* Estimates

* Patience

* Communication

* Negotiation

* Learning

Over the course of these two episodes, Chip and Gini look at why each is important and how to find ways to improve.

No matter how experienced an agency owner may be, there is always room to grow.

Transcript

CHIP:

That brings us to patientce. Something that that I think both you and I are are really fantastic at – really patient. No?

GINI:

No. And I will tell you honestly and truly – I did not get good at this until I had a child and then it was like oh, okay, I have to be better at this. So that is honestly what forced me into becoming more patient, just overall.

CHIP:

See, I have teenagers so my patience is… I used it all up years ago. No, but it’s look it’s it’s it’s a good point. And when I was first getting started in being a manager, let alone an owner patience was not something that was easy for me. And I know that back then I had a much shorter fuse, if you will. I mean, I was never a yeller and a screamer but I you know, I got I got frustrated and and everybody knew it very quickly. And you know, one of the things that that I have worked on consciously over the years is to, you know, not dumb down my expectations but realize that not everybody has that same level of skill and experience that I do. So it’s going to take some people longer to do something, longer to figure something out. And and I think all of that goes into developing that patience to be better because it makes you a better manager. It makes you better with your client relationships because you got to have patience with clients too, it’s not just employees.

GINI:

Yes you do. Yeah, and I would also add to that, that you have to be patient in terms of results for your own business. So what I see a lot is somebody will say, okay, we did $120,000 in revenue this year, and 100 of that went to me. Next year, I want to make $250,000, and you know, more than – more than double my – so you would have to almost triple your, your revenue in order to take that home. And then they’re not taking into account employees and all that all that kind of stuff. But I see that a lot where it’s like, is that really feasible? Or does it make sense for us to actually plan this out so that you have consistent growth, but it may not be 150% or 300%, but it’s 50%,

CHIP:

Right. And, and part of that’s where, you know, one of those gut check tests comes in, you know, okay, I want to, you know, go from, you know, 100 to 250 or whatever, you know, what does it take to get there? Is that really realistic? You know, okay, that means I have to add five new clients a month, is that probably going to happen? Okay, maybe not…

GINI:

And can I manage five new clients a month?

CHIP:

Right. And, and what does it mean from a staffing perspective, because, you know, I think, you know, a lot of times these things, you know, projections get made sort of pie in the sky, but nobody says, okay, you know, what are the steps that need to be taken to get there? Yeah, and it’s not just the sell side, you know, sometimes people will at least go through that exercise, but what does it take to actually onboard all those clients? Right, all of those different things that go into it. So I think that’s an important piece of the patience as well.