In the latest episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip and Gini discuss non-traditional revenue streams for PR and marketing agencies.

First, the pair address tax law changes related to meals and entertainment expenses — something that will impact many agency owners.

Next, Chip and Gini look at how agencies can go beyond retainer and project revenue to find opportunities in education, training, products, and software.

They also explore the pros and cons of partnering with startup companies in exchange for equity.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the agency leadership podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI: 0:04

and I am Gini Dietrich

CHIP: 0:05

and we are here today to talk about non traditional revenue streams for your agency. But before we talk about making money, we want to talk about spending money for just a moment. And

GINI: 0:18

maybe not money you want to spend necessarily. But exactly, you know,

CHIP: 0:21

it might be that you want to try to, to find ways to spend money and then have it be tax deductible, a lot of agency owners are interested in minimizing their tax burden while maximizing their fun. And one of the ways to do that is with meals and entertainment expenses, something that most agencies I’m sure are already deducting and using to their tax benefit. But there are changes taking place in 2019. And there was some discussion about this in the all important spin sucks community recently. And so we thought that we, before we jump into our broader topic of revenue, we would just touch on this for just a minute because it’s it’s, you know, it is an important area and it is something that most agency owners have done for years and years. And so the fact that there are changes now taking place, you know, what isn’t, is not deductible is something that you should be paying attention to.

GINI: 1:16

So the article that actually makes it super easy to understand is from bench bench is the accounting firm that we use a love bench, they keep things updated super fast. This is not a commercial for them, however, but it was on bench and it talks about the type of expense the old rules of 2017 in the new world, and 2018. And the two biggest things that have gone away or declined is entertaining clients. So concert tickets, sporting events, golf games, things like that used to be 50% deductible now at zero percent deductible. And the other big thing is office snacks and meals. Meals used to be 100% deductible. And that’s now for 50% deductible. So when you’re thinking about, you know, entertaining clients, or bringing food in for your employees, keep that in mind that it’s not either not deductible anymore, half of what it used to be

CHIP: 2:12

right. And there are there are different guidelines when it comes to employees, for example, as far as the percentage of your staff, they’re engaged. So, you know, like everything with the IRS, it’s not simple, it does require a little bit of education. You know, I think the the biggest thing that will hit at least some agencies, probably the larger ones are things like season tickets, luxury suites, those kinds of things that you know, that the bigger agencies tend to spend more money on, obviously, smaller agencies, little bit less likely, but, you know, may have season tickets to sporting teams and those sorts of things that they’ve used for client entertainment. And that’s I think that’s probably where the pinch will be felt the most it you know, there’s been some discussion about impacting on travel and client meals generally, for the most part, most rules seemed to be pretty similar.

In this week’s episode, Chip and Gini talk about how to safeguard your most valuable resource: your time.

From setting aside time to work on growing the business to avoiding being consumed by last-minute client meeting requests, this show has lots of actionable ideas.

The co-hosts emphasize the importance of finding the right rhythm for your own work habits to ensure maximum productivity. And Chip points out that time isn’t something you can borrow from a bank, so you need to focus on managing it effectively to be successful.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP: 0:00

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI: 0:05

and I am Gini Dietrich

CHIP: 0:07

and we’re here today to talk about managing your time.

GINI: 0:11

Yes, good topic.

CHIP: 0:15

That’s something that Chicago Bears had a little bit of trouble today. No, no, no, I shouldn’t do that

GINI: 0:20

job. He has one job. Kick the ball through the uprights, that’s all you have to do. One Job did that. He did that during a time out

CHIP: 0:29

he did during. I mean deadpan right down the middle during the timeout Unfortunately, when the clock was actually running, not so much

GINI: 0:39

one job but

CHIP: 0:40

yeah, it’s just been it’s been a tough little period of time for Chicago sports but

Unknown 0:45

it’s always a tough time for sports

GINI: 0:50

we’re very good at saying there’s always next year

CHIP: 0:54

well you know Chicago is an interesting place right the I over the holiday break I just covered shameless have

Unknown 1:02

such a good inappropriate, but so good,

CHIP: 1:06

insanely inappropriate and, you know, probably have to change the rating of this podcast simply to mention that I you know, I cannot believe that it’s been on eight years, and I didn’t even Honestly, I didn’t know anything about it until about three weeks ago. Oh, yeah. Great. When my wife said, Oh, yeah, I watched a few episodes. That was pretty good. I’m like, Okay, and so I and now like every free moment, I’ve got an episode running in the background. You really i do i do

GINI: 1:32

it. Like, there’s the there’s the line and then they the first season they sort of jumped over the line. And by the eighth season where I think they’re in the 80s. And now it’s like, so far past the line that you’re, you’re, you’re like, Okay, wow, wow, they really did that. That.

CHIP: 1:49

Yes. They really have no boundaries. None it is. But shameless is an absolutely appropriate name for that show. But it is it is very entertaining. And I do particularly enjoy the character, Carl who is clearly a psychopath and yeah, so.

GINI: 2:08

Oh, you wait, you wait. But yes, it’s based in Chicago on the south side.

CHIP: 2:13

Yes. That’s that’s what made me think of it obviously, because I the Darren a whole lot of shows that are set in Chicago except for that one night did NBC has now right? That’s all Chicago all the time,

GINI: 2:23

right? Chicago PD, Chicago ft. I don’t even know I’m making that up. Chicago Med.

CHIP: 2:29

Right. Right. Yeah, no, no shows about New Hampshire out there that I

GINI: 2:33

know a manager not know.

CHIP: 2:35

I mean, the the Animal Planet channel does have something about the new hampshire fishing game. North North North Woods law. It started out in Maine. They they, you know, they, they would chase the the the folks who are chasing hunters and that kind of stuff

coming after wildlife.

For the first episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast for 2019, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich discuss how to use a virtual assistant, in-house help, or other solutions to relieve the burden of repetitive tasks.

Agency owners and executives need to maximize the impact of their own time, which means prioritizing which tasks they need to do themselves versus those that can be delegated or outsourced.

Unfortunately, bad help is sometimes worse than no help at all. So understanding what to farm out — and how to manage those resources — represents an important skill to hone.

Chip and Gini share some of their own experiences and the lessons they have learned along the way.

Automated Transcript

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to verify accuracy.

CHIP 0:02

Hello and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI 0:06

and I am Gini Dietrich

CHIP 0:09

and we’re coming to you with the first show of our podcast for 2019. So Happy New Year everybody.

GINI 0:16

Happy New Year

CHIP 0:16

So did you have a good New Year’s Eve? Not too much to drink or anything like that

GINI 0:25

during our five year old, you know?

CHIP 0:27

Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Ladies and gentlemen. We’re completely faking this. We are recording this actually before Christmas. Christmas.

Unknown 0:35

So we have but I

GINI 0:35

tell you, it will not be that exciting.

CHIP 0:39

Yes, I I can tell you that that we are having friends over but I will probably still go to bed before midnight. Because Well, that’s what I do. I am cool and that much fun

GINI 0:51

getting all this fun.

CHIP 0:53

But it’s it is but it’s better than the alternative. Right? So that’s

GINI 0:57

a really good point. Yes.

CHIP 0:58

No matter how many pains I have in my ankles, my knees and everywhere else. And and this time of year. I have plenty of those because it’s basketball officiating seasons out there blowing the whistle running up and down the court. Yeah. Getting getting very important missives from the state head of officials today. Got one in my inbox that reminded us all that the official score needs to wear a black and white striped shirt while sitting at the table. The church should not be folded in merely placed in front of them. These are these are the important things that we deal with as officials in the state of New Hampshire.

GINI 1:30

Does that mean that you kept it folded in front of you and didn’t wear it?

CHIP 1:35

No, I did not know this was a statewide missive so you know, so I’m one of the on I’m on the floor. But this is the official score sits at the table and keeps the score book and they’re supposed to by rule wear a black and white striped jersey now it turns out that most people who sit at the table just don’t want to do that there. Yeah, I can understand that. You know, because basically, they don’t own one themselves. So this is a shared one that the school provides. Some of them do like these like Final smocks that you tie them. I mean, sort of like they’re really just hideous. But you know, I’m sure they never get washed or anything like that. So. So needless to say, a lot of folks just stick them in front of themselves at the table. But but we’ve been lectured. We’ve been told so apparently somebody somewhere complain some old fart, you know, said these guys aren’t enforcing the rules properly. And clearly, it impacted the outcome of the game. So I

GINI 2:31

can’t can’t keep score if you don’t have the jersey on.

CHIP 2:34

No. But in any case,

In the final episode of 2018, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich discuss what it takes to move from being a solopreneur or small team to becoming an actual agency.

They cover some of the mindset challenges, the process work needed, and other advice on overcoming the hurdle of becoming a “real” business.

Automated Transcript

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

CHIP 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Chip Griffin.

GINI 0:06

I am the other host, Gini Dietrich

CHIP 0:09

thought we’d mix up the opening there a little bit, just because you got to have a little bit of variety in your a right. And you know that that way, we sort of see if people are paying attention right off the bat. And, you know, for the fall asleep engine. So there you go. That’s good. You know, as long as you and I are paying attention that probably will improve the quality of the podcast. So what else will improve the quality of the podcast? Well, that’s telling you what the topic is. And today we’re going to talk about scaling or really, in particular, how do you take your what I would call your mini agency, your freelance agency on steroids, your nucleus agency, what however, you want to phrase it and turn it into a real agency business? Is that Is that a fair way of describing the topic?

GINI 0:54

I would say so.

CHIP 0:56

So it’s, you know, I think in future shows, will talk about other aspects of scaling. And, you know, going from maybe a small agency to mid agency. But for now, I think if we can focus in on, you know, what advice do we have? And t his is a topic again, that that came out of the spin sucks community a spin sucks, can

GINI 1:14

they think? And so,

CHIP 1:19

Gini, since it came out of community, once again, I’m going to let you have the first word and anything else you want to say about the original question.

GINI 1:26

Yeah, I think I mean, I think I have a little additional knowledge because it was from Catherine Mason , who’s a client of ours, and I talked to her this morning, so I have some extra context, but she’s going from you, I think it’s four employees, including herself to, you know, adding probably doubling size next year. And on my counsel, she she read, Built to Sell, which, by the way, is something that everybody should read, especially in the business that we’re in, because it talks about how to create passive income and create process out of our intellectual property and do it in a way that will provide you some generational money if you decide that you want to sell your business later. And it doesn’t require you to go with the business, which I love that that whole idea. So if you’re not, if you’re not read it, I highly, highly, highly recommend it. But that’s she had just finished it and was really trying to figure out, you know, how do I create process and structures so that a, I can build something that’s beyond me, and my expertise and my thought leadership and be that will allow me to create additional revenue streams I saw, I think that’s the genesis of her question is, what does that look like? And how do you Where do you start,

CHIP 2:45

right? And I think, you know, one of the, I saw this phrase somewhere recently, which said, you know, the owners goal should be to be needed, but not necessarily. Yes. And I think that’s a, I don’t know, who came up with this. My apologies for, you know, forgetting it’s, you know, it’s probably john wall again, you know, from

my seat stealing from marketing over coffee,

GINI 3:09

black mango, you can tell chip, it was Yes. Marketing.

CHIP 3:13

Exactly. Yeah. So, that’s, you know, that was very helpful. Look, if you’re listening, and, you know, where I come up with half of the things I say,

In this week’s podcast, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich explain why agencies might want to avoid the prolific production of proposals for prospects.

Instead, Gini lays out the example of how her own agency handles the business development process to build stronger client relationships.

Along the way, the co-hosts explore a range of challenges in the business develop, client relationship, and proposal creation process — along with practical advice on how to handle them. And a few funny stories along the way.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP: 00:35 Hello and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership podcast. I’m your host, chip Griffin, and I am Gini Dietrich and we’re here today to tell you why you shouldn’t write proposals. This is something that every pr agency, owner and executive has done countless times in their careers, whether on their way up or in their current positions, and yet neither one of us are huge fans of proposals, but I think you’re even more violently anti proposal than I am. So I’ll give you the floor first, Gini.

GINI: 01:08 Well, here’s the thing with proposals, we tend to, and you know, I came from the big agency world where this is what we did. We tend to say sit with a client or a prospect, I’m sorry for maybe an hour and we asked them all sorts of questions and they may be very smart questions like, what are your business goals? What are you trying to achieve? Have you worked with a PR firm in the past? What was your experience? What did you like, what you like? You can ask really smart questions and then we go back to our office and we take all the information and we write a proposal and we give all these great ideas and some of them are creative and smart and some of them are based on experience that we’ve had in the past with similar companies are in the same industry or things like that.

GINI: 01:46 And then we put forth the proposal and then one of two things happens. Either they hire so they don’t and if they hire us they then expect us to execute on that proposal because that’s what we’ve done and we’ve budgeted based on that proposal. Right. But we really don’t know enough about the client’s business to be doing that. We don’t. We don’t have enough information. And so what we find happens is we get into the organization and we start to execute on some things and it’s very tactical because it’s not. It wasn’t based on something strategic. It was based on ideas. We find, you know that things aren’t exactly as we thought they were or we didn’t ask, we didn’t know which questions to ask. We didn’t ask the right questions or maybe the prospect embellished or didn’t tell the full truth because we weren’t, weren’t undone under NDA or whatever happens to be and suddenly we’re stuck executing this proposal that we put in this program that we put into a proposal that doesn’t make sense for the client or not everything does or it’s not strategic or it’s not measurable or there’s a lot of different reasons, right?

GINI: 02:49 So I am vehemently opposed against it. And the other thing is, is why are we giving her our ideas away for free?

CHIP: 02:57 And I feel like you’ve had your caffeine Geneva that really feel strongly about this, but I think that may be the longest monologue you’ve yet had on leadership podcast. So. So while Jenny calms down just a little bit pops a valium or whatever. Yeah. So look, I, I agree with just about everything that Jenny said. I think to me it comes down to too often we’re writing proposals without listening and that may be because the client didn’t give us a chance to listen or it may be because we jump...

Nick Petroski of Promethean Research joined to talk about the outlook for digital marketing agencies in 2019 and beyond.

Should you provide a profit-sharing program to benefit your employees? If so, what should it look like?

These are the questions that Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich explore on this week’s episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast.

The co-hosts start by discussing what profit-sharing is, then they explore the pros and cons of different approaches.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership Podcast. I am Chip Griffin [and I am Gini Dietrich] and we’re here today to talk about profit sharing, profit sharing and profit sharing is something that tends to get people talking although I’m not sure that everybody is always on the same page with exactly what they mean when they say it, right? It’s it’s one of those those topics that can mean many different things to many different people.

GINI 0:26

Right? So what do you think of when you think of profit share, I think of, if their profits at the end of the year that you share them with your colleagues,

CHIP 0:37

so you’re a literalist, you like I am

GINI 0:39

and literalist. Yes,

CHIP 0:41

you believe that words have meaning

GINI 0:43

like I do as a communicator, I am appreciative of the words that have meaning.

CHIP 0:48

So I would agree with you. But before we sort of dive into our shared belief in the meaning Why don’t we touch a little bit on what other people might mean when they say profit sharing? I know this is a topic that’s come up recently in the spin sucks community. So I know it’s and it was clear from that discussion that the different people did perceive it differently. I mean, some people think of it is, you know, a 401k is a profit sharing. Yep. Which in its most literal sense, it is not. It is simply a retirement plan. There are different ways you can determine what contributions to put in. But it’s not it’s not necessarily a profit sharing plan. It may be a profit sharing vehicle of some sort, you know,

profit sharing can also mean discretionary bonuses. And I’m sure we’ll talk about that a little bit because, you know, there is a way to share profits where it’s not totally formulaic

there are like, it’s what are some other things that people might mean when they say, Hmm, those seem to me, the two big

GINI 1:46

or one K’s bonuses raises,

then, like there was a whole conversation about how I worked for an agency that would give us hams a ham, you know, there’s nothing wrong with him know if you’re vegetarian. Nothing wrong with that at all.

CHIP 2:07

Okay, we’re just we’re not going to go down that road.

GINI 2:11

Yeah, it was mostly bonuses raises and 401k is is where it netted out.

CHIP 2:18

Yeah, I think for foreign keys tend to be the one that that most people confuse in with in the mix here. And I think it’s really important understand that that profit sharing and retirement plans are not necessarily one in the same and in fact that they are in most cases not the same at all

GINI 2:33

correct. That said, we have about profit sharing program that is directed through our 401k. So if there are profits at the end of the year, you can divert that your, your percentage of the profit through your 401k. And yeah, you don’t get the the cash, but you also don’t get taxed, and you can save it for retirement. So we do direct it through our 401k that way. And, you know,

CHIP 2:56

I’ve seen over the course of my career and working with different agencies, a whole bunch of different methods of profit sharing. So let’s talk about some of the different models that we can think of just t...

Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR joins to discuss how small and midsize agencies can meet their human resources needs with a combination of vendors, consultants, and in-house staff.

In this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich discuss the pros and cons of running a virtual agency.

Whether an agency is just getting started or looking to switch from an in-office-only culture to one that has some or all team members working remotely, this episode has useful advice.

Chip and Gini both have extensive experience running virtual teams and identify some of the challenges that they have faced — and how they addressed them.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP: Hello and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership podcast. I’m chip Griffin

GINI: and I am Gini Dietrich

CHIP: and this week we are going to dispense with the witty banter, which I know you all enjoy and disappointed with the witty banter. Let’s be real but fair. But the, I should say the irrelevant, witty banter that you enjoy starting the show with mostly because we weren’t creative enough to come up with anything witty banter about. I think we’re both brain dead right now. Indeed we are. Indeed we are, but we’re recording this during the week of Thanksgiving, so that’s fair. I think we can be brain dead this week. Indeed. All right. So, um, what we’ll do is we’ll dive right into the topic. And this week we thought it would be interesting to talk about running virtual teams. This is something that a lot of agencies are doing today. It’s certainly a change from the way that agencies have historically operated and it presents a lot of opportunities, but also some challenges and you and I have both run virtual teams in one fashion or another. I think it’s really at the heart of your current model and sort of was a pivot that you made a number of years ago. So, um, you know, why don’t you jump in and talk about your own experience, how you decided to get there and we can figure out what advice would have for our listeners on how to run their own virtual team.

GINI: Well, it has many things in my life. It was not by strategic design, by any stretch of the imagination, but we had just come off the economy and we were facing the debt ceiling crisis and because we had just come off of the global recession clients, we’re watching all of this happening and put the brakes on. I’m paying bills. So we had like

CHIP: small things like that was just really no impact on an

GINI: no. That doesn’t have an impact on any small business at all. Not at all. Uh, you know, we went from 15 to 30 day receivables to 120 150 180 and we had more than $100,000 out and so it was one of those things where it was like on paper we’re fine, but we have no freaking cash. And I walked into the office one day, um, which was in river north, like the hip spot to be, you know, where all the agencies are and I was paying $12,000 a month for my rent and you know, had this great huge space. It was super cool space exposed brick, the whole kitten caboodle. And I walked in there and the only person who was in the office was my assistant and I was like, why? Why, why are we paying the clients never come to see us and you know, because we were waiting on you no more than six figures to come in the door.

GINI: And we didn’t. We had to figure out more expenses to cut more than we already had. Um, during the recession. And so my accountant, who is a pit bull and amazing helped me negotiate out of the lease, which I think we had another three to five years on it. Um, he helped me negotiate out of it and I had to pay for another year, not, not the full amount we were able to negotiate down, but we ended up leaving with the idea that we would all work from home for a year and then, you know, find smaller space that maybe wasn’t in the heart of the trendy spot to be and, you know,

In this episode, Chip Griffin and Gini Dietrich discuss the pros and cons of responding to RFP’s as a way to win agency business.

Neither Chip nor Gini are big fans of RFP’s for agencies — at least in most cases — and on today’s show they discuss why, as well as when you should make an exception.

The duo also have some advice for agency owners and executives who do end up responding to RFP’s, either out of necessity or choice.

Automated Transcript

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CHIP 0:03

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the agency leadership podcast. I’m Chip Griffin

GINI 0:07

and I am Gini Dietrich

CHIP 0:09

and we are back with you again this week if we didn’t put you to sleep last week talking about lawyers and

GINI 0:14

accountants, I think

CHIP 0:16

will really enjoy this week’s show. Because this one is all about revenue generation and one particular method. But before we get into that topic, I’m looking out the window here as we record and waiting for the the flakes to fly because hey, I told her supposed to have our first measurable so it’ll be probably less than an inch but measurable

GINI 0:36

measurable. If you if it sticks to the ground, you can measure it. That’s awesome. We had ours last week so it’s very exciting for me. I love snow.

CHIP 0:44

Yeah, I think you’re more excited than I am I the older I get the more I understand why it is that people move from knowing when to Florida right. As you know it’s fun seeing those first few flakes of the season but after that it’s really just a nuisance more than anything else

GINI 1:00

from home what’s the big deal like you have to commute?

CHIP 1:04

No but I do travel a lot and it did get

boards and things like that fortunate I do have some teenagers so you know once the shouting is all done they they do usually pick up the shovel and clear the walk at least so that’s that’s something to look forward to. It

GINI 1:21

is something to look forward to I will look forward to the day that I can have my small one do that

CHIP 1:26

yes just keep in mind other things come along with that so

Unknown 1:29

yeah

CHIP 1:30

take your pick up the shoveling but you also get the mouth so

GINI 1:33

I get the mouth now so why not

CHIP 1:37

speaking of multi families any Thanksgiving plans

GINI 1:40

oh we always host so we have you think there’s 12 or 13 people coming

CHIP 1:46

that’s a good size

GINI 1:47

Yeah What are you guys well we

CHIP 1:50

we mix it up we’ve been trying to travel for Thanksgiving more last few years but this year will we will be home will be having my folks over and my mother in law. So it’ll be pretty small by our by our normal

GINI 2:05

what’s your What’s your favorite Thanksgiving side dish?

CHIP 2:08

Well, so you know, I actually really enjoy cooking. Unfortunately for Thanksgiving. In the past. I’ve tried to be adventurous and so much static that now it’s simply a Pepperidge Farm stuffing and mashed potatoes and you know, microwavable frozen vegetables because, you know, I’m just not interested in the hassle. But I mean, my favorite is probably the mashed potatoes. And I do I do like, I don’t quite get to the one to one ratio between potato and butter. But I come darn close

GINI 2:38

as you should take mashed potatoes. Good.

CHIP 2:40

Exactly. I remember not to get too far off on a tangent here. But a few years ago, more than a few. I guess over a decade ago,