In this episode of the Business Transformation Podcast, host Heath Gascoigne—Founder & CEO of HOBA Tech, creator of the HOBA® framework, and author of The Business Transformation Playbook—sits down with Jarrett Bunnin, a U.S. government transformation leader working at the intersection of digital innovation, policy, and ethical AI.

What we cover

• The difference between real transformation and "tech theatre," and why over-complication kills outcomes.

• How to escape pilot purgatory and build systems that actually scale in government.

• Governance, adoption, and the critical role of middle management in change that sticks.

• Using a framework of frameworks—choosing only what accelerates value for your context.

• Where agentic AI helps (and where human judgment still matters).

Quotable

• "The biggest risk in government transformation isn't AI — it's inaction. Pilot purgatory is the new bureaucracy." — Heath

• "You can't regulate trust, but you can design for it." — Jarrett

Listen on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube & more. Host: Heath Gascoigne | HOBA Tech® Guest: Jarrett Bunnin

Call to action (free resource) Before you roll out your next AI initiative, benchmark where you are. Grab our free AI Transformation Readiness Scorecard on the HOBA Tech website (www.hoba.tech)—get your score, gaps, and an action plan in minutes. It's a perfect companion to this episode and will drop you into our resource funnel for ongoing tips, templates, and live Q&A invites.

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