In this second interview with former Commonwealth Secretary and Australian Public Service Commissioner Andrew Podger AO, Danielle gets to chat about

• The pros and cons of bringing all service delivery together in a single agency 
• The valuing of operational expertise v policy leadership
• The role of portfolio budget practices in driving Robodebt
• Cultures of challenge and diversity of thought
• The future of public service reform.

References in the episode

• 2019 Thodey Review of Australian Public Service
• 1976 Coombs Royal Commission on Australian Government Administration

This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.

Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....

While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.

Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at [email protected].

Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music.

'Til next time!