On this week's podcast, we talk to Angie Moxham, founder and CEO of The Fourth Angel and Sarah Perry, managing director of The Fourth Angel.

Previously, Angie was the founder and CEO of 3 Monkeys which, as many of our readers will know, was sold to Edelman and became part of Zeno.

Angie founded The Fourth Angel in March 2019.

Sarah joined The Fourth Angel in December 2019 as managing director.

The Fourth Angel has a fee income of £1.6m and is described by Angie as a multi-sector, brand consultancy business.

2.30 mins Angie talks about why, post her 3 Monkeys Zeno exit, she decided to do it all again and launch The Fourth Angel?

5 mins Why Angie is still just trying to please her dad!

8 mins Angie talks about why PR firms, for too long, have done management consultancy work for a media relations fee.

8.30 mins Why reputation management must “go from boardroom to showroom” within a business.

9 mins Sarah talks about why, increasingly, PR firms need to look at consultancy through a “media owner’s lens.”

15 mins Angie talks about her ambitions for The Fourth Angel.

16 mins Angie talks about Seraphim - The Fourth Angel’s brains trust and the advantages of being an independent firm, compared to a group owned firm.

18 mins Angie talks about a couple of agency propositions she is launching in the next few months.

20 mins “We’re not a whale, not a shark, we’re a dolphin brand,” claims Angie.

21 mins Sarah talks about how affiliate links and e-commerce have the potential to change the consumer publishing model.

29 mins Why great campaigns should have earned at the front and centre.

30 mins Is The Fourth Angel a PR business?