Another Way

Dan Koda, also known as Dan Koch, is the founder of Sacred, one of Australia's leading ceremonial cacao movements. Before dedicating his life to cacao, Dan was one of Australia's rising trance DJs, performing at major festivals including Future Music, Creamfields, Summadayze and Stereosonic, and sharing the stage with artists such as Above & Beyond, Armin van Buuren, Paul Oakenfold, Cosmic Gate and Dash Berlin.

In 2013, after opening for Above & Beyond in front of 7,500 people in Melbourne, he walked away from the music industry, feeling called to create something that was better for people and the planet.

After three years of sobriety, with cacao becoming a central part of his journey, Dan began combining ceremonial cacao with music and conscious gatherings. That vision became Sacred in 2016, creating alcohol-free cacao ceremonies, festivals and community experiences before evolving into a globally recognised ceremonial cacao brand.

Today, Sacred works directly with Indigenous communities in the Peruvian Amazon to source wild-crafted ceremonial cacao, supports rainforest regeneration, and has built a community of hundreds of thousands of people through its products, events and educational content.

In this conversation, we explore what it really means to follow your heart, the lessons Dan has learned from cacao, music, and nature, and why so many of us are searching for deeper connection in a world that's never been more distracted.

We also dive into:

• Dan's transition from the electronic music scene to building Sacred Cacao

• The power of cacao as a daily practice—not just a drink

• Living from the heart instead of the mind

• Conscious business, purpose, and creating meaningful impact

• Why community, ritual, and nature matter more than ever

Whether you're curious about cacao or simply looking for another way to live, this is a conversation that invites you to slow down, listen deeply, and reconnect with what matters most.

Affiliate Code - 10% discount

Use our affiliate code to receive a 10% discount on any purchase at https://www.sacredtaste.com/

Code - "anotherwaywithmatt"

Connect with Dan / Sacred

Dan's IG: https://www.instagram.com/koda.sounds/

Sacred's IG: https://www.instagram.com/wearesacred

Sacred's Website: https://www.sacredtaste.com/

Connect with Matt / Another Way

Matt's IG: https://www.instagram.com/mattdefina_/

Another Way IG: https://www.instagram.com/thereis___anotherway/

Join The Collective

Ready to join our community and connect with other ambitious, heart-led entrepreneurs, founders and facilitators? Book a call with Matt and the team here:

pages.anotherway.au/apply

May Samali is the Founder and CEO of Human Leadership Lab. As a speaker, facilitator, coach, researcher, investor and board director, she helps organisations and individuals unlock leadership potential and sustain high performance.
She is a Fellow at the Institute of Coaching at Harvard Medical School and holds a Professional Certified Coach credential from the International Coaching Federation. In 2024, she was recognised as one of the Top 15 Coaches in Sydney by Influence Digest.
May is also a Venture Partner at 77 Partners and recently served on the Board of Directors of Inspirato (formerly NASDAQ: ISPO) prior to its acquisition. She holds a Master of Public Policy from Harvard University.
Her early career as a corporate lawyer, venture capital investor and tech CEO sparked a deep interest in helping people develop the mindsets, skills and systems required for human leadership and sustainable high performance.
May’s insights on leadership have been featured in Forbes, Australian Financial Review, ABC Radio National and Stanford Social Innovation Review.

Connect with May / Human Leadership Lab

Website - Human Leadership Lab

⁠LinkedIn - Human Leadership Lab

Instagram - Human Leadership Lab

LinkedIn - May Samali

⁠Instagram - May Samali⁠

Connect with Matt / Another Way

Another Way Website

Instagram - Matt

Instagram - Another Way

Join 'The Collective' - email us at [email protected] to apply.

What does Existential Kink actually look like in practice?

In this special follow-up episode with Dr Carolyn Elliot, author of Existential Kink, I step into the client seat and allow Carolyn to coach me through a powerful session (note: I suggest you listen to the previous episode if you don't know what EK is).

We dive into the challenges I’m facing in leadership, life and business, and she guides me through a pretty damn expansive EK practice (that isn't actually even in the book).

I’ll be honest—sharing this episode makes me nervous. It’s one of the most vulnerable conversations I’ve ever had on the podcast.

But I believe there’s value in being open about the messy, human side of growth, and I hope my experience will resonate with you and offer some insights for your own journey. I also hope you get to see and feel the power of EK in action too.

IG - Carolyn Elliot - www.instagram.com/carolynlovewell_

IG - Matt Defina - www.instagram.com/mattdefina_

I am so excited to share this episode with you - Existential Kink is a practice that has changed my life and changed the lives of so many people and clients around me and this episode I'm talking to the creator and author of the practice.

Dr. Carolyn Elliott, now known as Carolyn Lovewell, is a writer, educator, and expert in shadow integration, with a PhD in Critical and Cultural Studies from the University of Pittsburgh. She is best known for her book Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power, which explores how embracing repressed parts of ourselves can unlock personal transformation. The book blends Jungian shadow work with a unique approach to finding pleasure in difficult or undesirable experiences.

In addition to her writing, Carolyn runs online programs like the "Sleep Over Mystery School," teaching occult philosophy and practical magic. She also founded the online community Electric Yes, where she offers coaching and workshops focused on her "Existential Kink" practices. Carolyn has traveled extensively, lived as a digital nomad, and now resides in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with her family​.

On the episode, we talk about:

• What 'Existential Kink' is
• How Carolyn discovered the 'EK' practice
• Why we actually love and create our own suffering (and how to change this)
• How to use EK to create the life you truly want (and why you don't yet have it)
• How Carolyn uses EK in her everyday life and relationship

Carolyn's Links

• Instagram
• The Immortal College
• Buy the book: Existential Kink

Matt's Links

• Another Way Instagram
• Matt Defina Instagram

It has been a hot minute, but we are back! This time we are welcoming Ryan Hubbard — Cool 2 Be Conscious Founder & Breathwork Facilitator

Ryan is the founder of Cool 2 Be Conscious, a breathwork facilitator, and a dedicated community builder who has taken a movement from five friends in Christchurch to thousands of people across Australia and New Zealand. His events, tours, and workshops have created a thriving community united by breath, connection, and a shared desire to feel alive.

Ryan's path here was anything but linear. He grew up on a farm in New Zealand, spent years operating heavy machinery, tried his hand at personal training, painting, kayak guiding, and eventually found his calling as a professional dive instructor on the Great Barrier Reef – until a serious ear injury brought it all crashing down. That loss, and the depression that followed, became the doorway to everything.

Through breathwork, fasting, cold exposure, and a deep commitment to personal growth, Ryan transformed his life — and now dedicates himself to helping others do the same. His unique approach blends high-energy facilitation with raw vulnerability, making his events a genuinely life-changing experience for anyone who walks through the door.

He's also a proud new dad and the visionary behind New Waves – an upcoming music festival set for 2027 that combines big-stage acts with ice baths, saunas, and breathwork for thousands.

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Cool 2Be Conscious - https://www.cool2beconscious.com/

Ryan Hubbard IG -https://www.instagram.com/ryanhubbards/

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Another Way - www.anotherway.au

Another Way IG - www.instagram.com/anotherway_au

Matt Defina - www.instagram.com/mattdefina_

I’m thrilled to be back on the podcast and this time, welcoming Laura Poole! Laura is a renowned Vedic meditation teacher, the visionary founder of Mahasoma, and a passionate community builder dedicated to weaving feminine-led Vedic wisdom into everyday life.

Laura has spent over 15 years studying and training with revered masters across Australia and India, deeply immersing herself in the ancient lineages of Vedanta, Ayurveda, and Vedic meditation. Based on a beautiful three-acre homestead in Noosa, she also travels regularly to teach in Melbourne, Sydney, Byron Bay, and India - leading thousands of sessions, retreats, and teacher trainings.

Her unique approach combines simple, heart-based meditation techniques with embodiment practices, earth‑rooted living (she’s even growing a food forest!), and uplifting community events. Laura believes meditation is not just a personal tool — it’s a way to discover who you truly are, connect with your purpose, and live in loving service to the world.

She’s also the host of the Mahasoma Podcast, where she shares transformative stories and ancient wisdom to challenge old beliefs and inspire a new way of being.

And — I’m excited to say — Laura and I will be co-leading the COMPASS retreat together from 18th - 25th August in Bali. It’s a week-long journey into clarity, purpose, and deep reconnection… and we can’t wait to share it with you.

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Mahasoma - https://www.mahasoma.com/

Laura Poole - https://www.laurapoole.com/

Laura Poole IG - www.instagram.com/laura_poole

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Another Way - www.anotherway.au

Another Way IG - www.instagram.com/anotherway_au

COMPASS Retreat - www.anotherway.au/compass

Matt Defina - www.instagram.com/mattdefina_

This week's guest is a powerhouse! Alfie is an entrepeneur, fitness coach, model, actor and former corporate professional who left the rat race to pursure something more. Alfie shot to social media fame earlier this year (2024), after he created a Instagram account called @alfiegetshard, to share the journey of him completing the 75-hard challenge (go look this up if you don't know it!).

In just a few months, Alfie's account grew to over 100k followers (now 247k), and he then used this momentum to launch a fitness, health and coaching business off the back of it. Originally from New Zealand, but relocated to Bondi Beach, Alfie is the epitomy of what's possible when you back yourself and create your own way.

He's now living the life of his dreams with a bunch of other Kiwi mates who have all created the same lifestyle for themselves. He's team up with best mate Jake Blundell (aka @elastaboy - 661k IG followers) and they've now got their own IG accounts and businesses together, @purebodyeat and @trainpurebody (links below).

I met up with Alfie at Waves Podcast Studio in Bondi while I was up for a trip earlier this year and the pleasure of going for a run with him and his run club while I was up.

As you'll here in the episode, I first met Alfie because I complete one of his diet and fitness challenges and it had a real impact on me - I loved his philosophy and how much he simplifies things down.

Naturally, I was keen to meet with him and start to uncover some his secrets. As you'll hear in the episode, Alfie's attitude to life, work and training are exceptionally positive and inspirational.

In this episode, Alfie and I talk about:

• How he got into this world of health and fitness
• What it takes to actually show up day in, day out
• How to build a brand and business that's aligned with your life
• How to squeeze the most out of life, in all areas

Alfie's got a heap of really accessible programs online, go and check him out at the links below.

Alfie's Links

• IG - @alfiegetshard
• IG - @purebodyeats
• IG - @trainpurebody
• IG - @elastaboy

Another Way

Our podcast and business exists to help purpose-driven professionals create a meaningful life and career, without burning out. If you know of any guests that you think should appear, or have topics you'd like us to cover, please let me know via my details below.

Contact Details

As always, I'd love to hear your feedback! You can find me at the links below:

• IG - @anotherway.au
• IG - @mattdefina_
• Email: [email protected]

Working together

Want to chat about collaborating or working together? Book a discovery call with me here

Enjoy!

Alison Rice is a 10x award-winning leader, conscious career and business mentor, regenerative brand strategist and podcast host.

It all started in 2018 with the launch of the now-acclaimed Offline, The Podcast. An antidote to hustle and grind culture, it remains dedicated to exploring more conscious and sustainable definitions of success. To date, it's been downloaded over 1.5 million times.

Her ever-evolving body of work exists to serve anyone seeking a more spacious, sustainable and purpose-driven version of success.

Which includes…

• Spiritually informed and highly strategic career mentorship and business programs. 

• Regenerative brand, community and content strategies that start with deep listening and emerge to meet the need of the time.

• Inclusive and aware community spaces that offer people a safe place to land, recover and redefine the role their work plays in the overall storyline of their lives.

Prior to Offline, Alison held writing, editing, programming and publishing roles at The Walkley Foundation For Excellence in Journalism, ACP Magazines and Allure Media. In 2015 she led the award-winning localisation and launch of Who What Wear, Byrdie and MyDomaine into the Australian market and from 2013-2018, led POPSUGAR to become one of the country’s most-read women’s lifestyle websites.

Key Projects

Explore Alison's conscious career and business mentorship space at getoffline.co/off.

Enrolments for the only four-month season she's running in 2024 are now open and will close at midnight on Sunday, April 28.

Contact - Alison

If you'd like to get in touch with Alison, the email address to write to [email protected]. You can find her on Instagram @alisonlarsenrice. 

Meet Sammy, a dynamic individual who has worn many hats and experienced a multitude of life's adventures in a remarkably short span of time.

Stepping off the conventional path at an early age, Sammy ventured into the realm of electrical work, instilling in him a profound appreciation for the value of hard work. 

However, fate had a different calling, and at the ripe old age of 20, he bid farewell to the electrical trade to immerse himself in the vibrant world of music. This career change ignited his creative spark, inspiring him to craft and produce events that resonated with his own unique vision. 

Over the past decade, Sammy has poured his heart and soul into curating extraordinary music festivals, food extravaganzas, and captivating community shows. His biggest triumph to date? An awe-inspiring long weekend gathering that united a staggering 35,000 people in Melbourne.

Yet, amidst the glitz and glamour of the event scene, Sammy confronted his own battles with mental health, a struggle that had plagued him since his formative years. It was during his lowest point, when hope seemed to elude him, that he realized a transformation was essential. 

Introduced to mindfulness by his family doctor, Sammy began to venture down a new path. 

The transformative tools of meditation and mindfulness became the bedrock for nurturing and sustaining his mental well-being, elevating his overall quality of life to new heights.

Driven by an unwavering passion, Sammy's mission is clear: to share the profound benefits of meditation and mindfulness with the world.

Through his own remarkable journey, he aspires to guide and inspire others on their path to finding balance, cultivating inner peace, and unlocking their true potential. Sammy's story is a testament to the transformative power of meditation and mindfulness, and he stands ready to empower individuals from all walks of life to embrace a higher quality of existence

Connect with Sammy

• One Minute Meditator
• Sammy Swayn

Connect with Matt

• Matt Defina
• Another Way
• Mt Kilimanjaro Retreat

Support Services

• Lifeline - 13 11 14
• Beyond Blue - https://www.beyondblue.org.au/

How do you actually say YES to the adventure of life? What do you do when life keeps throwing your curveballs, hurdles and stop, wrong way signs? What do you do when life keeps whispering in your ear and nudging you to go another way? Well, my guest this week knows a thing or two about the above! On this episode, we spoke about:

• How Dre got into marketing and made some bold moves in her career at an early age
• The health challenges Dre navigated as a result of not choosing her true path
• The magic that has transpired in Dre's life since she did say YES

Andrea Beck

Andrea is a Cultural Futurist, Business Strategist, Creative Mentor, and CEO. She’s the founder of All Rise, the next gen business development agency that innovates for impact (or “idea lab for transformational leaders and orgs”). There, she helps purpose-led brands launch, scale and establish themselves in their market, so they can become more influential and make a real difference in the world.

From working for the Big 4 Management Consultancies, to pursuing art as a law school drop-out, to designing the strategies for major multinational brands like Barbie, Colgate and Chanel, to changing the law multiple times with marketing (e.g. removing taxes on tampons, introducing new Power of Attorney legislation to prevent abuse).

Andrea has worked in every corner of the creative industry, as a researcher, analyst, business / brand / marketing strategist, content creator, partnerships manager, sales representative, brand ambassador, and business owner. With business of all sizes. She’s fascinated by the power of stories to drive change, here to give future visionaries a voice, and raise the leaders our world needs.

According to Andrea, we live in an extremely exciting time, where anyone has the opportunity to get their message and idea out there. But, having worked with many first-time creators, she also knows how daunting this can be!

30-day challenge

To remove some of the barriers many aspiring business owners and thought leaders have, she’s leading a 30-Day Challenge, where she’ll be building a completely new brand and community from scratch, covering the exact steps it takes, from defining your vision, to finding your edge, to growing your audience, and beyond.

She invites those who have always wanted a side hustle, or to take their brand to the next level, to join her. The creative revolution is here, and there has never been a better time to pursue your purpose or passion project!

Dre's Links

IG - @andreabeck

www.allrise.com.au

Matt's Links

IG - @mattdefina_

www.anotherway.au