For the final episode in our Anthropy special series, we speak with Paul Nowak, General Secretary of the Trades Union Congress (TUC), representing 48 unions and 5.5 million workers across every sector of the UK economy. Paul shares a powerful perspective on ensuring a just transition to a sustainable economy, drawing on his personal experience growing up in Merseyside during the industrial changes of the 1980s and 1990s. He discusses the importance of bringing workers to the table when planning for sustainability transitions, the role public services can play in reducing emissions, and why skills development is crucial to sustainable economic transformation. Paul argues that without fairness at the heart of the transition, we risk having no transition at all.

🎯 Key Takeaways

1. Just transition requires concrete plans, not warm words

• Workers in carbon-intensive industries need clear pathways for their future, not distant promises
• People have a right to be around the table and shape their own future
• Without fairness at the centre of sustainability transitions, there will be no transition at all
• Example: Oil and gas workers in Aberdeen need specific plans, not vague assurances

2. De-industrialisation is not a viable path to net zero

• Offshoring emissions by importing steel and other materials is not a sustainable solution
• Maintaining an industrial base in the UK that complements net zero objectives is essential
• Green technologies like electric arc furnaces for steel and carbon capture must be part of the mix
• The UK should maximise domestic supply chains in renewable industries to support good jobs

3. Public services can lead the way in emission reduction

• Government can use procurement power to ensure taxpayer money is spent sustainably
• 4 million union members in public services could help drive the transition
• Leading by example in the public sector makes it easier to ask private sector to follow
• Healthcare delivery models can be reimagined for better patient outcomes and sustainability

4. Workers need to be involved in net zero planning

• Companies should draw up net zero plans in consultation with their workforce
• "Union green reps" can function like shop stewards for climate change in workplaces
• Frontline workers often have the best insights into making operations more sustainable
• Small employers in transitioning sectors need particular support

5. Flexibility and lifelong learning are key skills for the future

• Employers themselves often don't know what skills they'll need in 5 years
• Education system should prioritise adaptability over specific employer requirements
• Retraining throughout working life needs to become normalised
• UK employers invest about half the EU average in skills and need to increase this

⚡ Quick Wins & Actionable Steps

1. Establish workplace "green reps"

2. Develop transition plans collaboratively

3. Reimagine service delivery models

❓ Got a question?

Ask us and we'll try our best to answer it in the show!

[email protected]

🔄 Share Your Impact

• Let us know how you implemented these actions
• Submit your case study
• Join our Sustainability Solved Hub

🎙️ About Our Guest

Paul Nowak is the General Secretary of the Trades Union Congress (TUC), representing 48 unions and just short of 5.5 million workers across every sector of the UK economy. With a background growing up in Merseyside during the industrial changes of the 1980s and 1990s, Paul brings firsthand understanding of what happens when industrial transition is mismanaged. He advocates for a just transition to a sustainable economy that creates good quality employment in the long term, while ensuring workers have a voice in shaping their future.

👫 Credits

• Hosts: Will Richardson, Charlie Luxton
• Production: Soundquake
• Exec-Producer: Sam Hamilton-Turner
• Producer: Jake Lee-Savage

💚 Help us make the show better! Share your feedback

Rate and review us on your favourite podcast platform

Mentioned in this episode:

Apply to become a Green Element Ambassador today!

Earn extra income while being part of a growing community accelerating the sustainable future we all need.

Apply now