In this latest conversation, we speak with Minxin Peiabout his latest book, The Broken China Dream: How Reform Revived Totalitarianism (Princeton University Press, 2025),which challenges the enduring assumption that economic development naturally leads to democracy. Pei argues that China’s post-Mao reforms produced not political liberalization but a resilient, adaptive form of authoritarianism.Focusing on the Deng Xiaoping time, he shows how these changes also reinforced centralized authority, fostered corruption, and sidelined reformist actors—laying the groundwork for neo-authoritarian rule. The conversation turns to nationalism and the Patriotic Education Campaign, probing how nationalism in contemporary China has been mobilized to legitimize Xi Jinping’s totalizing control. We ask whether the features once seen as China’s strengths—partydominance and controlled markets—are now sources of fragility under Xi Jinping.Dwelling on the significance of the title of the book, we explore how the rise of China, counterintuitive to many in the West, is ultimately an example of contradictions inherent in modern as well as Chinese politics.