"It's off the record until it's on the page."

That's a line from our As Told To podcast conversation with award-winning author/ghostwriter Joanne Gordon, reflecting on the level of trust that exists between author and subject in a successful book collaboration.

A former staff writer and contributing editor at Forbes, where she wrote about management, career, and workplace issues, Joanne is the author of more than a dozen books, with a focus on helping business and thought leaders elevate their voices and share their stories. She is the co-author, most recently, of Bag Man: The Story Behind the Improbable Rise of Coach, written with former Coach CEO Lew Frankfort—"an illuminating behind-the-scenes look at a global brand's success," according to Publishers Weekly.

Joanne has also helped to write books for Ginni Rometty, the former Chairman and CEO of IBM, and Howard Schultz, the founding Chairman and CEO of Starbucks. Her first collaboration, Roadtrip Nation: A Guide to Discovering Your Path in Life, written with Mike Mariner and Nathan Gebhard, grew out of an assignment for Forbes and became the basis for a film documentary and a PBS series.

Her own book, Be Happy at Work: 100 Women Who Love Their Jobs and Why, explores how women pursue fulfilling careers.

In 2024, Joanne was named by The Information as a "Top Five" ghostwriter of business books and was honored by Gotham Ghostwriters and the American Society of Journalists and Authors with an Andy Award for "Best Business and Thought Leadership Collaboration." for her work on the Rometty memoir, Good Power.

Learn more about Joanne Gordon:

• Website
• LinkedIn

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

This episode originally aired on June 7, 2022.

Two-time Emmy Award-winner Bruce Vilanch has written jokes for Bob Hope, Lily Tomlin, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Billy Crystal, Whoopi Goldberg and virtually every Hollywood star to grace the Academy Awards stage from 1989 – 2014.

As one of the entertainment industry's most sought-after joke writers, the actor, comedian and songwriter was perhaps best-known to audiences for his work behind-the-scenes at the Oscars, supplying one-liners to hosts and presenters. (Oscar-watchers are still talking about the year Jack Palance did push-ups on the stage, and the time Rob Lowe went rolling down the river with Snow White – two moments that left Bruce and his fellow writers scrambling backstage to help viewers make sense of it all.)

Over the years, Bruce became a familiar face to television audiences, when he stepped from behind the curtain for a long-running stint as a celebrity panelist on "Hollywood Squares," where he also served as head writer. As such, he is uniquely positioned to offer note and comment on what it takes to craft topical material for some of our leading personalities – honing his own voice as a comedian and performer while honoring the voices of his famous clients. Bruce was the subject of the 1999 documentary "Get Bruce!", and he has played himself in the movies and on television, including a memorable turn in an episode of "The Simpsons."

Join us for an outrageous discussion on Bruce's adventures (and, misadventures) in Hollywood, including the inside story behind one of the most notorious flops in the history of prime-time network television (1978's "'Star Wars' Holiday Special"), the infamous Friars Club roast that featured Ted Danson in blackface, and a cameo turn from Ira Gershwin who was brought in to rewrite the lyrics to a song called "Treat Me Rough" for Marie Osmond, in hopes of slipping the number past the Morman elders who handled censorship duties on the "Donny & Marie" variety show.

Learn more about Bruce Vilanch:

• Website
• Twitter
• It Seemed Like a Bad Idea at the Time: The Worst TV Shows in History and Other Things I Wrote

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

Join podcast host Daniel Paisner as he moderates a panel discussion at the second annual Gathering of the Ghosts ghostwriting conference earlier this year.

Dan is joined by former As Told To guests Jodi Lipper, Lisa Dickey, and Ellen Daly, as the veteran collaborators compare notes on craft and process—a fun, spirited, insightful reflection on the very many ways authors and journalists are writing in collaboration.

Learn more:

• Ellen Daly
• Jodi Lipper
• Lisa Dickey
• Gotham Ghostwriters
• Kevin Anderson & Associates

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

"As a ghostwriter, I've trained my ear to listen for what's really there or not there, to discern what's underneath or between someone's words," writes veteran collaborator Samantha Rose, in her stirring, soaring new memoir Giving Up the Ghost: A Daughter's Memoir. "I hear what's implied, what's withheld…"

Samantha's gifts as a storyteller are very much on display in the pages of her new book—a heartbreaking account of her mother's suicide, published earlier this year by Sybilline Press.

An Emmy Award-winning television writer and a New York Times best-selling collaborator, Samantha has written extensively in the areas of spirituality, health and wellness, personal growth and parenting. Her books have been translated into more than 20 foreign languages and have been featured selections of Reese's Book Club and Target's Bookmarked Book Club.

She is the principal of literary development and the head of client relations for Yellow Sky Media, her boutique editorial agency in Petaluma, Calif.

Learn more about Samantha Rose:

• Website
• Instagram
• Facebook

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

Nelson and Alex DeMille's The Tin Men is an electrifying read and a chillingly timely one," writes The New York Times best-selling novelist Megan Abbott of the third and final father-son collaboration in the Scott Brodie & Maggie Taylor series. "[It's] both a master-class in suspense and a haunting exploration of the dangers and costs of a surrender to technology, an abandonment of the human."

Yes, it is. It's also the final novel from legendary author Nelson DeMille, completed posthumously following his death in September 2024, and a follow-up to the duo's first two collaborations in the series—The Deserter and Blood Lines, both immediate New York Times best-sellers.

Its publication offers Alex DeMille an opportunity to reflect on growing up under the influence of one of our finest storytellers—a backdrop that at first inspired Alex to become a filmmaker. A graduate of the MFA program in film at UCLA, Alex's films have won many awards and fellowships, and have played at festivals worldwide, including "My Nephew Emmett, " which was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Live Action Short in 2018.

"I want to thank my father," he writes in an emotional grace note to the new book, "who might be reading this somewhere among the stars with a good scotch in hand. Thank you for all you've given me, all you've taught me, for your love, your encouragement, for making me laugh and making me think. Thank you for trusting me. Thank you for showing me the way. I hope this makes you proud."

Learn more about Alex DeMille:

• Website
• Instagram
• Threads
• Twitter
• Facebook

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

Student journalist and first-time documentary filmmaker Matthew Winkler joins us to discuss his work on a film chronicling the life and career of Joya Sherrill, an unsung American jazz vocalist who wrote the lyrics to the Billy Strayhorn standard, "Take the A Train," made famous by the Duke Ellington orchestra.

Matthew came across Sherrill's name during his freshman year at Tufts University, while doing research for Boston Globe journalist and noted biographer Larry Tye, who was writing a book about jazz. Matthew, a music and history major, was astonished to discover the small footprint Sherrill had left behind, despite being the first female jazz singer to visit the Soviet Union, accompanying bandleader Benny Goodman, and earning the distinction of being one of Duke Ellington's favorite singers.

"Public-facing history is very important to me," Matthew told a reporter for Tufts Now, the university's alumni magazine, in an article detailing how the Tufts undergraduate grew a student research project into a feature-length documentary, with the help of his professors and mentors. "I hope this film will make people know who Joya Sherrill is and why we should care about her. On a broader level, I think a documentary like this will make people realize how easy it is for remarkable figures to fall through the cracks of history."

With this conversation, it is hoped, he might also signal to aspiring storytellers how easy it is to keep their eyes and ears open for stories that might move us, inspire us, and enlighten us.

Learn more about Matthew Winkler:

• LinkedIn
• Five Sisters Productions

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

Podcast guest Michael E. Long calls himself "a professional explainer with a restive mind." He is just that. Trained as physicist, Mike is the co-author of the international bestseller The Molecule of More, which has been translated into more than 20 languages, and the sole author of the recently-published follow-up title Taming the Molecule of More. As a speechwriter, he has written for members of Congress, U.S Cabinet secretaries, presidential candidates, governors, diplomats, and business leaders. As a ghostwriter, he has collaborated on several books of non-fiction. As a playwright, he's had more than two dozen of his shows produced, most on New York stages. He was finalist for the grand prize in screenwriting at the Slamdance Film Festival. A popular keynote speaker, Mr. Long has addressed audiences around the world, including at Oxford University. He teaches writing at Georgetown University, where he is a former director of writing. The son of a southern preacher, Mike's call to writing found him close to home. "I learned how to write," he says, "and how words should go together, by listening to the music of my father's voice." Join us for a fun, freewheeling conversation on a writing life lived at the crosshairs of the written word and the spoken word. Learn more about Michael E. Long:

• Website
• Facebook
• Instagram
• Twitter
• LinkedIn

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

"No two caregiving journeys are alike," writes Emma Heming Willis, the wife of actor Bruce Willis, who was diagnosed in 2023 with Frontotemporal Dementia (FTD), a rare form of dementia affecting behavior, movement and language. "But we are connected by the same unchosen thread."

In The Unexpected Journey: Finding Strength, Hope, and Yourself on the Caregiving Path, Emma writes movingly and hopefully about the blessings and burdens of being thrust into the role of caregiver, emerging as a passionate voice for care partners and families navigating neurodegenerative disease. Together with her collaborator, Michele Bender, she offers an essential blueprint for others confronting some of the same issues facing her own family.

"My grief can still paralyze me," she shares in the pages of the book she wishes someone had handed her when her husband was first diagnosed. "I still have a hard time accepting what is, yet FTD doesn't give you many options. It can suck all the air out of a room. So I've made a choice to pump oxygen back into our lives, for the sake of our girls, Bruce, and me. And to give the middle finger to this disease."

Join us as we visit with Emma Heming Willis and her co-author Michele Bender for a heartbreaking and heart-lifting conversation on what it takes to tap the universal elements in such a deeply personal story—and what it means to step from an unimaginable darkness at home to stand in the world as a light for others.

Learn more about our guests:

• Emma Heming Willis Website
• Emma Heming Willis Facebook
• Emma Heming Willis Instagram
• Michele Bender Website
• Michele Bender Instagram

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

"Pull the heart of your work out of your chest and lay it out there for the gods," podcast guest Samuel G. Freedman told his Columbia Journalism School graduate students on the first day of his final semester after 35 years of teaching. "That's all I'm asking of you. Not much."

No, not much. And yet what Sam Freedman asked of his students during his tenure as one of our leading journalism educators was everything. Before his retirement this spring, his popular book-writing seminar led to the publication of 95 books by his students.

"He's been the godfather to an awful lot of publishing over the years," noted Grove Atlantic executive editor George Gibson, in a New York Times profile on Sam's career and his legacy in journalism and publishing.

Sam was named the nation's outstanding journalism professor in 1977 by the Society of Professional Journalists and was awarded Columbia University's coveted Presidential Award for Outstanding Teaching. A former staff reporter and columnist for The New York Times, his work as appeared in numerous publications, including The New Yorker, The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, Tablet, Salon, and New York magazine.

He is the author of 10 acclaimed books, including The Inheritance: How Three Families Moved from Roosevelt to Reagan and Beyond, a 1997 finalist for the Pulitzer Prize; Into the Bright Sunshine: Young Hubert Humphrey and the Fight for Civil Rights; and, Who She Was: My Search for My Mother's Life, which was reissued in a new edition earlier this year.

Learn more about Samuel Freedman:

• Website
• Twitter

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount

Jane Leavy is the New York Times best-selling author of Sandy Koufax: A Lefty's Legacy, The Last Boy: Mickey Mantle and the End of America's Childhood, and The Big Fella: Babe Ruth and the World He Created. She is also the author of the comic novel Squeeze Play, hailed by Entertainment Weekly as "the best novel ever written about baseball."

A longtime sportswriter and feature writer for The Washington Post, Jane covered baseball, tennis and the Olympics during her tenure at the paper. She also wrote features for the Post's "Style" section on sports, politics and popular culture. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, Grantland, The Los Angeles Times, and Tablet.

In her latest book—Make Me Commissioner: I Know What's Wrong with Baseball and How to Fix It—Jane waxes philosophic and not-quite-catastrophic about the game she has loved her entire life, and asks readers to join her in re-imagining the way that game is played, and all the ways we might play it better, or more meaningfully, or more relevantly. In the book, just published by Grand Central Publishing, she writes movingly and hilariously and insightfully on our national pastime, offering a thinking fan's take on what the game has become, and what the game has lost over the years.

Join us for our Season 5 opener, as we visit with one of baseball's biggest fans… and one of publishing's finest storytellers.

Learn more about Jane Leavy:

• Website
• Instagram
• Twitter
• Threads

Please support the sponsors who support our show:

• Gotham Ghostwriters' Gathering of the Ghosts
• Ritani Jewelers
• Daniel Paisner's Balloon Dog
• Daniel Paisner's SHOW: The Making and Unmaking of a Network Television Pilot
• Heaven Help Us by John Kasich
• Unforgiving: Lessons from the Fall by Lindsey Jacobellis
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Libro.fm (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership
• Film Freaks Forever! podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton
• Everyday Shakespeare podcast
• A Mighty Blaze podcast
• The Writer's Bone Podcast Network
• Misfits Market (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order
• Film Movement Plus (PODCAST) | 30% discount
• Wizard Pins (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount