Audience

One of the biggest players in the podcasting industry is Apple Podcasts. Up to this point, they have helped dictate major shifts in podcast consumption and how podcasters create their shows.

Given Apple Podcasts’ popularity, it’s no surprise getting in front of their curation team can help propel a podcast to new heights. But the question is, how can I pitch my podcast to appeal to their editors?

This week on Audience, we’re tackling this important topic with Bobby Temps. As the co-host of Mental: The Podcast to Destigmatise Mental Health, he has orchestrated getting his show on multiple featured podcast lists inside the popular listening app. Throughout our interview, Bobby sheds light on repeatable strategies that helped him break through the noise and impress the Apple Podcasts team.

But that’s not all we’re covering. At the top, we get into how the Mental podcast encourages listener participation, uses data to inform their content decisions, and why you might be missing some reviews from your international listeners.

Listen to the full interview now to starting pitching you podcast with more flair and to track down those reviews you may have missed.

Like many other podcasters, Bobby and his co-host, Danielle, have shifted their content strategy as a result of COVID-19. But since the show focuses on mental health, they’ve noticed the shift has primarily been driven by changes in society.

The goal of the podcast is to destigmatise mental health. So Bobby and his team are capitalizing on our eagerness to include mental illness alongside physical ailments in the wellness conversation. To alter content for these times, they’ve focused on practical tips listeners can put to use right now. Their mission is to help both loyal and new followers feel more confident and secure in times that are unstable.

Let’s start with the motivation factor. Every podcaster wants more reviews and emails with feedback from their audience. But it’s difficult to help listeners take the next step and put pen to paper.

To help, Bobby highlighted the tone of the Mental podcast. His team has ramped up the calls-to-action to leave a review or send a email. But they positioned their messaging around the desire to tackle subjects their audience needs help with right now. The authenticity of wanting to provide their listeners with timely tips didn’t go unnoticed. They received more feedback and were able to cover topics that were important to their community.

In times before COVID-19, the Mental podcast is one of the best examples of why audience participation can make or break a show. The podcast covers the rapidly changing landscape of mental health and typically sensitive subjects. Their team understands the need to use appropriate language and phrases for each topic, but the standards shift.

For example, the phrase “committing suicide” is no longer the most appropriate way to talk about this topic. Through conversations with their community and mental health experts, the Mental podcast team were made aware of the sensitivities and have changed the way they speak about death by suicide.

In addition, using audience feedback and interviews allows Bobby to include more experiences about the same topic. Even if he has experience with an issue they discuss on the show, they’re cognizant about the fact that it doesn’t mean he can talk about everybody’s experience. In having the community chime in with their thoughts, they’re able to cover the more mental health topics in more detail.

Bobby takes a person-centered approach and if you think about other great interviewers, they all do too. The person-centered approach has the host view themselves as the facilitator for the guest to share their story. The focus is on how the host can do the best job at creating a safe space.

While an interview is a more structured conversation, it’s still a conversation first. In the research phase, Bobby tries to find the balance of being knowledgable about the story but not over researching. You may be scratching your head but think about it from the listener’s perspective.

His guests are often telling surprising and emotion-filled stories. If Bobby knows every twist and turn, when the story reaches its climax he has to feign surprise. As a listener, it’s obvious when someone already knows the punchline. But by allowing the guest to tell him these details live on air, he’s finding out the information at the same time as the audience. The listener realizes they’re having the same reaction as Bobby and he then asks the follow up questions that are likely on their mind. These elements of surprise and authentic emotion amp up the listener’s experience and makes them feel part of the show.

During the interview, Bobby employs another person-centered strategy called mirroring. Here he uses the same language as the guest to repeat their story back to them, but in his words and from his point of view. Not only does it help the interview keep its pace, but it signals to the guest that he’s listening which helps create their safe space. For guests who aren’t seasoned public speakers, there’s an added benefit. When they hear their story repeated back, it can help trigger a realization and cause them to elaborate more. In these elaborations, they often have real-time epiphanies where they’re figuring out something live on the show. These moments are beloved by the Mental podcast community and is one reason they love to tune in.

The last tip helps to keep listeners engaged during the interview. For guests, it’s easy to forget that podcasts are audio only. You miss the visual cues and aides that help public speakers get their point across. To combat this, it’s the host’s job to translate hand gestures or body language to make listeners feel like they’re included in the conversation. Also, try addressing your audience by name. Call outs like “this is something I want to repeat for our listeners” is a great way to call attention the information that will help them grasp the topic.

Mental has been featured across numerous Apple Podcasts curated lists and noteworthy sections. But it wasn’t an accident, it was by design.

As the show began to grow organically and the team refined each episode, Bobby started regularly pitching Apple Podcasts. His pitch described the show and why it was worthy of being included in their highly sought after featured lists. And it worked. Mental has been included in a COVID-19 Essential Listening roundup and multiple mental health must-listen lists.

So how can you repeat Bobby’s strategy for your own podcast? Here’s what to consider to be featured on Apple Podcasts.

The best way to pitch a podcast to Apple’s editorial team is via their Podcast Promotion Request form.

Tailor your pitch to what the Apple Podcasts’ team is looking for in addition to explaining why your show is great. Tactics that have worked for Bobby include:

• Mentioning your guest interviews on other podcasts that Apple has featured in the past
• Highlighting upcoming content angles that match consumer listening trends
• Detailing why your podcast is a peer to the other shows Apple has recommended in your niche
• Mentioning your podcast’s ranking in your niche if it’s a competitive position
• Talking about how you promote your Apple Podcasts’ subscribe links to your community (remember, Apple Podcasts is interested in featuring great content but they’re also looking for more users too)
• Including links to any other roundups your show appears in to offer social proof that your podcast is noteworthy

Apple Podcasts has two main curated lists to recommend interesting podcasts. It’s important to recognize the differences so you can craft the best pitch possible.

The first option is being featured in the front page carousel. When users log into the app, this is the first screen they’ll see. Due to the prime real estate, this is a tougher spot to snag. Bobby suggests two tactics for this main carousel based on his insider knowledge.

Tip number one is to focus on more timely content. The Apple team is looking for episodes and shows that talk about specific trends that people are talking about in any given week. For example, as Pride month approaches they include roundups of the best LBGTQ+ content out there. If your podcast touches this niche, it’s best to send your pitch in May to align with Pride month in June.

Tip number 2 is to consider global trends. A lesser known fact is Apple Podcasts’ featured lists are country specific. You’ll need to pitch their UK and US editors to be featured in each location. Capitalize on an international trend to gain followers from outside of the United States.

The second option is being featured in category specific recommendations. This is the easier spot to secure because you’re competing with a smaller subset of shows. Also, editors add new additions to their lists on an ad-hoc basis. Since you aren’t pigeon-holed to timely trends, you can submit this pitch at any time. But it still needs to have all the key elements mentioned above to stand out from the pack.

Bobby also recommends leaning into showing why your podcast is relevant to the other shows in your category. This is why choosing the right podcast categories is an important decision.

Did you know Apple Podcasts sorts listener reviews by country? When you view your listing from the United States, you’re only seeing US based reviews. But if you log in from London, the review section will update to UK based reviews.

With asking listeners to leave a review, you might have missed your international follower’s kind words. If you have a global audience or want to build one, remember these tips:

Chartable not only lets you keep an eye on your podcast’s rankings. It also pulls together all of your recent reviews into one place. You can use their dashboard as a one stop shop to analyze your show’s performance and global reviews.

If you don’t want to pay for Chartable’s services, there’s a way to do it for free. On a desktop, got to your show’s listing on Apple Podcasts using any browser. The URL will look like https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/audience/id1491047450 (this is Audience’s listing). Notice the /us/ right in the middle of the link. That’s the country code that automatically populates depending on where you’re located.

To see your listing in another country, simply change that country code. For example, to view Audience as a UK based user, the link would be https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/audience/id1491047450. Noticed we included /gb/ instead of /us/. When we compare the review section, our US listing has 7 reviews and our UK version has 2.

After working so hard to motivate your listeners to leave a review, make sure to do the due diligence on your side to read them all.

• Subscribe to Mental: The Podcast to Destigmatise Mental Health
• Fill out Apple Podcasts Promotion Request form to pitch your podcast (Read more about their submission guidelines here)
• Check out Chartable
• Subscribe to Audience

Class is back in session on our latest Audience episode! This week, we’re taking it back to our community.

Across our Facebook groups and in conversations with customers, we hear a lot of great questions. Some that we’ve never thought of and others that frequently stump newbie podcasters. In our latest episode, we brought in five questions that we think don’t get enough air time.

But first, some exciting announcements with our company and platform. The first is that we announced our sister company, Podcast Motor, is moving under the Castos umbrella to help power Castos Productions.

We’re also excited to introduce a new member of the Castos team, Matt Medeiros. Host of the Matt Report and long time member of the WordPress community, you’ll hear from him in our future Audience episodes.

Dipping into our community of podcasters to answer questions about their pain points is why we’re here. So we dove into our Facebook groups and customer inquiries for this latest set of burning podcast questions.

Seasons is a term that Apple introduced a few years back to group episodes together within a single RSS feed. Typically, the episodes makes sense together and follow a similar topic or storyline.

For podcasts that have a story arc, chronological time sequence, or follow a time-sensitive activity, seasons make sense. It’s a way to logically order episodes and give your audience a more seamless listening experience.

Another factor to consider is using seasons to build in a break. Having a logical end to a group of episodes offers an opportunity to take a break from publishing new episodes. While our advice typically is to consistently produce content to keep an audience engaged, seasons can help manage expectations. Remind listeners that the season is XYZ episodes long and to expect new content a few weeks after the final chapter is published.

What’s the first thing that happens when a new season of any TV show premieres? A montage of the drama and climaxes aires first to remind viewers what happened leading up to the first episode.

This tactic is perfect for podcast seasons too. Highlight the key players, bring people up to speed, and orient them on where you left off. It allows listeners to follow along more easily and have some background before diving into your latest episodes.

To create a recap intro, pull soundbites from episodes from the previous season. It can be repurposed for promotional materials to bring buzz to the upcoming season and entice new listeners to explore your back catalog.

Whether your guests are minor or major celebrities (or not celebrities at all), our stance is that you need to provide value to the person you’re pitching. When an interesting article, YouTube video, or podcast episode catches our eye, the first instinct is to share it. Finding the niche value your content provides is where you can unlock virality.

When pitching someone, specifically call attention to the value the content provides. An unexpected quote that directly aligns to the person or a piece of data that supports their point of view are personal ways to grab their attention. Create beautiful assets and include them with your pitch to make it super simple for your target to share.

The answer to “is this possible?” is absolutely. If you use Castos or Seriously Simple Podcasting, you can change your cover art image at any time. Directories like Spotify and Apple Podcasts take a few hours to refresh a podcast’s artwork.

One note to help you avoid some headaches. Name the new cover art image with a different file name than the one you’re replacing. It’s a trigger to the directories that you uploaded a new image.

So is it a good idea? We think yes. Your podcast is a living thing. It evolves, serves new purposes, and grows up as you continue creating more content. To keep up with a refreshed sound, a refreshed cover art image is a good idea. If the idea and theme that your podcast serves changes over time, then it’s time to update your artwork.

As always, keep the audience abreast of the upcoming change so they can continue easily finding your show.

We’re a bit biased for this answer because Castos offers pay-as-you-go transcriptions services right within your dashboard. It starts at $0.10/minute and it’s an automated service that will transcribe each newly uploaded episode. You can download full PDFs and edit the final transcription.

Another tool that we like is called Descript. It’s an audio editing and transcription tool that lets you add music and sound effects. You can edit the transcription and the tool will edit the audio as well!

If 100% accurate transcriptions are what you’re after, consider a human transcriber. The price starts at $1.00/minute but you can guarantee there won’t be any answers. We like Rev as our preferred tool but you could also go to Fiverr for more options.

• Subscribe to Audience
• Learn more about Castos Productions
• Learn more about Castos’ automatic transcriptions
• Check out Descript
• Check out Rev

There’s no doubt that the Coronavirus pandemic has changed many of our lives, and for some aspects of our lives this may be a permanent change.

Our guest on Audience this week is Tom Webster from Edison Research, the company behind the industry-leading Infinite Dial survey.

In an earlier episode we recapped some of the biggest takeaways from the 2020 Infinite Dial survey, and thought we HAD to have Tom on the podcast to talk through some more of his interpretations of the data there, and what has changed since that time. The fact is that many of the lifestyle changes that we and our audiences have seen as a result of Coronavirus are here to stay and things won’t be returning back to “normal”.

Here are some of the hard facts about listener behaviors as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic:

• Commutes to work or school have gone down – this is the #1 way and place that people listen to podcasts.
• Following external analytic tools like Podtrac and Chartable are great for Downloads, but may not tell the whole story from talking to actual listeners. Their behaviors are changing in different ways.
• Listening on smart speakers like Amazon Alexa has increased substantially as people are listening to podcasts in groups and at their homes.
• Initially, there was a big movement to news-based podcasts, but as the news overload settled in there was a movement away from it.

Tom likens the disruption caused by Covid to a snow globe where once you shake it up the “snowflakes” of our lives go up in the air and sometimes don’t settle back down where they came from originally. That’s the theme that we’re following as we go forward with our shows.

But in many ways, the open question is: what will stay the same and what will be permanently changed. And largely this question remains unanswered.

A question we can ask ourselves to help our audience better understand where our podcast can live into their lives is where and when will our listeners tune into our shows. Thinking about traditional radio always having a time and place that people listened, many of us can think about framing our shows the same way. Your show could be “The show to listen to on your Saturday morning walk”. This engrains this behavior in your listeners minds and behaviors.

As the industry saw the biggest change in behavior around podcast advertising at the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic this medium is coming back already, but in a different way.

Many advertisers and media buyers are moving to more “safe” forms of advertising. For some media buyers and sponsors the need to have more established media through which to advertise and reach audiences may increase. Things like Google Adwords and Facebook ads where more data is available around the targeting of the audiences that your ads are targeting may be a more “sure bet” for companies trying to spread the word about their brand.

We discuss the move of the Joe Rogan show to Spotify. As Rogan had significant listenership on YouTube that channel could be one of the places that he could lose a portion of his audience. But, the upside of gaining access to an entirely new distribution channel in the Spotify platform is a huge benefit.

In general for listeners the move of The Joe Rogan show to Spotify could give one less reason for audience members to pick up a conventional podcasting app like Apple Podcasts or Overcast.

The other thing that may be a bigger impact is on the data that the Spotify platform has on its listeners and that availability to advertisers. Knowing the location, age, gender, and other demographics about listeners could mean more targeted and better-aligned ads served to listeners than could be available through traditional RSS based open platforms.

Spotify is far and away this biggest growth engine of the younger demographics both in the US and abroad. As the popularity of the platform increases an even bigger growth of people finding podcasts for the first time may occur. This is because it is not “just” a podcasting platform, it’s a place where people listen to music and other types of audio.

Tom shares his insights and looks into his crystal ball around both the existing direct response advertising that already happens in podcasts as well as the membership and paid subscription model where listeners directly support shows.

The future of models like Patreon and other similar models is yet to be determined but as the movement to online communities and connectedness continues it reasons that these types of avenues will continue to gain acceptance.

• I Hear Things
• Tom on Twitter
• Edison Research

As with many new hobbies, a fair bit of research and reading is required to figure out the best way to start. Podcasting isn’t much different so there has always been need for diverse resources teaching Podcasting 101.

According to Google Trends, the phrase “how to start a podcast” has averaged 60 searches per day since 2016. With low barriers to entry and the ability for just about anyone to start podcasting, the Bello Collective was ready to answer that question.

Launching in 2016, their efforts came just in time. With a diverse team of writers to build a solution, the Bello Collective started publishing podcasting resources to help hosts get started, grow, and sharpen their craft.

Fast forward to 2020, that community has grown to elevate voices that don’t always get enough airtime. With readers and writers across Slack, email, Twitter, and their website, Ashely Lusk and Galen Beebe are the co-editors steering the ship.

On this week’s episode of Audience, Craig sits down with Lusk and Beebe to talk about the Collective and how they built such an engaged community. Listen to the full episode now to hear firsthand why interrogating your definition of success can make you a better podcaster.

In the past, blogging and podcasting were primarily one-way conversations. The writer publishes an article, the reader digests their thoughts without the opportunity to directly collaborate with them. The podcaster releases an episode, the listener tunes in without being able to connect with the person on the other side of their headphones.

But as industries shifted, so did the technology that enabled creators and consumers to start a dialogue. Podcasters are urged to start newsletters, social media accounts, YouTube channels, and Patreon followings to fuel the connection.

Bello Collective was built from this foundation of dialogue. When pressed about how they morphed a static publication into a living community, Ashley and Galen highlighted the importance of having conversations with intention.

Open dialogue is at the forefront of all of their interactions. For new writers, this means clear expectations about the editing process and what content they are looking for. Within their Slack channel, members can’t join until they agree to community guidelines that say keep all responses off the record. By doing so, every member can speak freely and surface discussions that may have otherwise been missed.

For podcasters, an open dialogue takes a few forms. It’s having conversations with co-hosts about how to improve a show or with guests about an interview’s expectations. Even though this isn’t the first time you’ve heard communication is key, there’s a reason it works. It’s a good time take a moment and reflect on your podcast. Have you fallen victim to going through the motions or do your episodes and conversations have intention behind them?

Another benefit of having more conversations between a podcaster and listener is the opportunity to transform passive followers into active participants. This is where an engaged community starts to form.

Establishing a team of diverse voices is the basis of Bello Collective’s success. Each writer has different tastes to recommend unique podcasts and has the ability to see story angles that others can’t. The wide bredth of content and opinions allows the Collective to talk to a wider audience and provide resources written by someone with the same background.

To stoke their writer’s engagement, the Collective has a Slack channel, Twitter account, and a bi-weekly newsletter. The co-editors will pitch questions or ask for recommendations where every writer has a chance to weigh in. In doing so, they remove some of their blindspots and can pass along unique suggestions to their readers.

In describing their relationships with their readers and writers, Galen also mentioned making sure she and Ashley viewed themselves as active participants. For the podcasts they love, it’s their job to think about ways to support them. Whether that’s a financial donation, a positive review, or word of mouth recommendation.

They encourage their entire community to move from passive followers to active participants too. It was this encouragement to lift up creators whose voices are heard less that brought tell-all interviews with Kaitlin Prest and The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder to life.

After listening to the episode, we encourage podcasters to think about how to adopt this mindset. Will featuring new guests or highlighting a typically stifled perspective energize your listeners to actively support your show? How can you galvanize your community to organically grow a listenership?

The battle between creative fulfillment and earning an income has been part of the media industry from the beginning. Podcasting is both a side hustle and creative outlet, each with their own definition of success.

During our interview, Ashley reminds us that there’s always been the conflict between creating something that you want to make versus something that will succeed in a marketplace. And we agreed with her when she said it’s likely a problem that will never be solved.

So does monetization equal success? With a lot of podcasters asking how to pitch sponsors and set up a Patreon, it might feel that way. But rather than compare your show to others, interrogate your priorities and uniquely define what success means to you.

Is it seeing 100 downloads per episode? Being retweeted by one of your heroes? Or can feeling joy every time you sit behind the mic be called a success?

• Read more at the Bello Collective
• Subscribe to the Bello Collective newsletter
• Follow @BelloCollective on Twitter
• Support their work and join the Bello Collective community

Motivation is a fickle thing. Some days it’s front and center, driving you to produce your best work. Others it’s no where to be found and things that used to be a priority can fall to the wayside.

The rollercoaster of motivation is a central theme in our latest episode of Audience. Craig sits down with Rob Walling, found of Drip and TinySeed, who has produced over 500 podcast episodes. His show, Startups For the Rest of Us, has been on the air for 10 years. Throughout that time, the show has experimented with new formats, went from co-hosts to a one man show, and spurred a successful live conference series.

Given Rob’s passion for and success with podcasting, he’s just the guy to help you maintain or re-spark your motivation. Throughout our interview, he describes his biggest podcasting regret, how to talk ad nauseam about the same topic, and why fostering a community with his listenership is his biggest legacy.

Listen to the full episode to learn how a podcaster with 10 years of experience under his belt finds the motivation to keep going.

A lot has changed in the podcasting industry in 10 years. And the same thing can be said for Rob’s podcast, Startups For the Rest of Us.

Starting out, Rob describes feeling nervous behind the mic. He wrote out, word-for-word, a script of exactly what he wanted to say for each episode. It took about 250 recordings to find his voice and feel more comfortable talking candidly with his co-host. And then he and his co-host hit the complacent years. Both in the midst of building their start-ups and family life, they stopped experimenting and trying new things. They still showed up each week, but had lost the motivation to innovate.

It was just within the last year, at episode 448, that things started to change. His co-host, Mike Taber, decided to take back from recording every episode. And with that shift, Rob rediscovered his motivation to start innovating again.

He ushered in new formats, more experiments, and pushed the show to excel beyond its original success. Now surpassing 500 episodes, Startups For the Rest of Us continues to inspire bootstrapped entrepreneurs.

After settling on a podcast topic, the realization that you may be talking about same subject for years to come sets in. If you’ve taken the advice from successful podcasters, you chose a topic that you’re passionate about. But how do you find new ideas and angles about the same general topic week after week?

Rob’s advises to “peel the onion”. The podcasts that make a splash bring new perspectives and voices to the table. Your focus, whether you’re on episode 10 or 100, should always be how can I add something different to the conversation?

For Startups For the Rest of Us, Mike and Rob started building episodes from content they’d previously written about in books and articles. But then episode 30 hit and they ran out of things to say. That’s when they realized listeners had submitted questions via email and Twitter that they never addressed. A new episode format was born and they continued consistently publishing new material.

In the years when their other professional ventures dominated their time, they reduced how frequently they published episodes. Moving from publishing weekly to twice a month helped them stretch out topic ideas. But as growth stagnated, they realized their audience was engaging less.

So they moved back to a weekly schedule with a new found determination to support their loyal fanbase. By introducing expert interviews, roundtables, and hot seat formats, they continued to dissect their entrepreneurial niche by focusing on under-represented points of view.

Our main takeaway from Rob’s answers is the idea of experimentation and innovation. He says he’s not afraid to try new things because it’s not permanent. You can always revert back to what was working before. But when you stop trying new things and put the show on auto-pilot, you’ll inevitably bore longtime followers.

Mixing up content styles and formats is a popular way to keep an audience engaged. But what’s the best way to approach it without alienating listeners?

Rob and Craig share the same process because they’ve each found transparency to be key. The relationship between podcaster and listener is a two way exchange. In order to honor that connection, start any format experiment by telling your listeners what to expect.

We do this with Audience when switching between interviews, monologue episodes, and answering listener questions. The new format is explained in the prior week’s episode and again at the top of the affected episode as a reminder. Being transparent can also help with building out the new format you want to try. If you want to include listener participation, put out a call-to-action in previous shows to get more submissions.

Once a new format airs, the work isn’t done. Look to your podcast analytics to gauge how the episode performed. Did total listens remain consistent? Did people consume the entire episode? Did your subscriber count increase?

And don’t be afraid of talking to your audience directly. Rob recounts a time chatting with a regular listener. He asked for their constructive feedback about the new formats he was testing. Up to this point, Rob told his listeners he was following a content calendar to rotate through multiple styles. Thinking the schedule would be beneficial in managing expectations, the feedback he gained said the opposite. The listener said liked the episode variety but he preferred when Rob went rogue and didn’t follow the rotating schedule.

Feedback in hand, Rob realized he didn’t have to follow a methodical calendar. His audience was ready for more variety and came to enjoy it more than his old approach.

There’s a lot to learn from someone who has been podcasting for 10 years. Starting when the industry was just emerging and creating two new shows within the last year, Rob is here to stay. But what advice does he have to beginners?

He starts with the biggest misconception. When he hears people say the space is too crowded, he has a rebuttal. He says there’s always room for novelty, innovation, and opportunity for new perspectives to speak on evergreen topics. If you feel there’s a gap in a niche, go for it but ask yourself how your show is different.

Begin with picking a few shows or interviewers you want to emulate in tone, style, and format. Use your favorite episodes as inspiration and a starting point to find your own voice. There’s no shame in paying homage to the podcasters before you.

Rob continues on this point. He says, “If I were to start from scratch today, I would cut my teeth with a hobby podcast that’s aimed at a super tight niche. Like a B-tier TV show where no other podcast exists, and you can watch the show as it comes out and talk about it. Learn how to edit and learn how to publish. And people who like that show will rally around it and find your feed.”

• Subscribe to Startups For the Rest of Us
• Learn more about TinySeed
• Learn more about Microconf
• Follow @RobWalling on Twitter
• Hear Jack Rhysider describe how his listeners use Discourse to create a community