Author's Afterword

Charlie and Jennifer Saint (Atalanta) discuss the forgotten story of the female member of the Argonauts - Jennifer's use of and changes to the various versions of the mythological story, including her usage of motherhood as a theme, Homer's thoughts on his women characters, the assault of Callisto, and the fact that Jason isn't much of a hero.

Please note there are mentions of sexual assault in this episode.

Episode 60 of this podcast is my interview with Jennifer about Elektra Jennifer's Elektra Jennifer's Ariadne The Argonautica Sarah Clegg's Women's Lore Cicero said, in the Tusculan Disputations, Book I, On The Contempt Of Death, section XXXIX: "If a child dies young, one should console himself easily. If he dies in the cradle, one doesn't even pay attention." Emily Wilson's translation of The Iliad

Where to find Jennifer online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:42 Why Atalanta, what drew you to her? 03:19 Why the first person in particular and how did you create Atalanta's voice? 06:31 The relevance of Atalanta's story to our present day, especially compared to Elektra 08:49 The unimportance of Jason (of the Argonauts) 10:07 Atalanta's growth as a person and her relative genderlessness 12:49 How and why Jennifer included motherhood in the way that she does (and how there are bad parents in Greek mythology) 17:54 Depending on the version of the story, Atalanta doesn't always meet Artemis - Jennifer talks about this and her choices for her story. We then move on to Callisto's story and the different versions of it 24:25 Jennifer talks about how Homer seems to have empathy for the women in his stories as part of a wider discussion as to the reception of the female characters in Ancient Greek society 27:49 How Jennifer approached writing the male characters, who revolve around Atalanta rather than the other way around 34:57 The ending - becoming lions would've been seen as a punishment in Ancient Greece, so how did Jennifer change this for her story? 38:02 Artemis' and Aphrodite's relationship 41:16 What's next - Jennifer's book on Hera 42:23 Might Jennifer ever write a 'regular' high fantasy novel?

Charlie and Elizabeth Fremantle (Disobedient) discuss the formative life, and Elizabeth's fictionalisation, of Artemisia Gentileschi, a woman painter from the 17th century.

Please note that there are many mentions of rape in this episode, and there is also a mention of animal death.

The previous episodes with Elizabeth are episode 7 and episode 70 The exhibition at The National Gallery Judith Slaying Holofernes Caravaggio's Judith Beheading Holofernes Mary D Garrard's Artemisia Gentileschi Elizabeth's Queen's Gambit Firebrand

Where to find Elizabeth online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:18 Why Artemisia, and the general inspiration for the book 04:40 Elizabeth talks about Artemisia's work in general, as well as her success in her lifetime 10:58 How much does your fictionalisation of Orazio Gentileschi align with what's known? 15:14 Where Artemisia worked on her father's paintings 16:47 The Stiatessi family and what we know about Artemisia's husband 20:12 About Zita, real name Tuzia 22:49 The fragments of translations in the book - listen in for some interesting facts! 25:56 The use of laundry and light coming through the laundry lines 28:21 The Nightingale (Ovid's Metamorphoses' Philomel and Procne) 31:19 About Beatrice Cenci and Elizabeth's next book 35:28 Asking Elizabeth about what Charlie feels is her defining element - her honing in to one or two specific elements - and how she may continue in this vein in future 40:42 Lola the dog, who is mentioned at the start of the novel 41:29 Release dates for Firebrand, the film of Queen's Gambit

Photo credit: JP Masclet.

Charlie and Kristy Woodson Harvey (The Summer Of Songbirds) discuss whether we should like her character, Lanier (who stops her best friend and brother being together); the various plot threads she left out of the book (including alternative endings); and US summer camps (both Kristy's experiences, and the effect of the pandemic lockdowns). We also spend a good amount of time discussing the pre-actor's-strike announcement of an adaptation of Kristy's Peachtree Bluff series and her next two books.

Kristy's The Wedding Veil Kristy's Christmas In Peachtree Bluff Friends & Fiction Kristy's interview with Susan M Boyer The announcement about the Peachtree Bluff adaptation on Kristy's website

Where to find Kristy online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

02:14 The inspiration: a sailing trip at a summer camp Kristy went to with her family during the pandemic 06:49 So Lanier and Rich came first?... 08:02 How Kristy doesn't write in chronological order and how it ends up working well 12:01 How Kristy feels about Lanier 15:35 Why was important to write about Daphne's family and the problems there are there? 19:21 Why no narrator for Mary Stuart? 25:39 This book was originally longer (what got cut) 29:24 Kristy's childhood experiences of US summer camps 33:52 Why Kristy ends her book with a scene about Daphne, Lanier, and Mary Stuart's children going to camp 34:51 Real camps that had to close due to the lockdowns 36:24 The concept of 'hard things' 40:27 Other endings Kristy had in mind for The Summer Of Songbirds 44:43 A sequel? 48:18 The on-hold Peachtree Bluff adaptation 52:16 What's next (A Happier Life, and and very, very brief peak at Kristy's 2025 book)

Charlie and Maggie Brookes (Acts Of Love And War) discuss the small group of British Quakers who went to aid refugees during the Spanish Civil War, the way the war tore families apart as people chose different sides, and why she ended her romantic thread differently than might be expected.

All referenced media in this episode: Francesca Wilson's In The Margins Of Chaos Maggie Brookes' Acts Of Love And War Maggie Brookes' The Prisoner's Wife

Buy Acts of Love and War and other books mentioned

Where to find Maggie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:53 The initial inspiration: Professor Farah Mendlesohn's PhD on the Spanish Civil War 03:39 The very small group of Quakers, including Alfred Jacob, who went out to Spain from Britain to help refugees 07:02 The real life women in Maggie's book: Francesca Wilson, Kanty Cooper 09:30 How the Quakers got their supplies to Spain, and the refugee children's colonies 15:03 What happened to the refugees after the war 18:26 Maggie's fictional characters - Lucy, Tom, and Jamie and having two brothers on different sides of the war 22:20 People in Britain who thought Franco was right, and why they thought that, and we mention the non-intervention pact many countries agreed to 27:27 On why Maggie had one of the brothers die, and who was better for Lucy 29:59 The ending, Maggie leaving Lucy single 32:00 Maggie tells us about the inspiration of her first book, The Prisoner's Wife, and Maggie briefs us on what she's writing now

Photo credit: Lyn Gregory Disclosure: If you buy books linked to our site, we may earn a commission from Bookshop.org, whose fees support independent bookshops

Charlie and Stacey Thomas (The Revels) discuss English Civil War era witch hunting which includes the methods, the propaganda, and the awful theatre of it all. We also discuss Stacey's inclusion of actual witches in her narrative, and Stacey's recommendations of Wolf Hall and A Little Life.

Witchfinder General James VI/I's Daemonologie Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall Hanya Yanagihara's A Little Life Bridget Collins' The Binding Stacey's episode on Witches Of Scotland I spoke to Amita Parikh in episode 72

Where to find Stacey online

Twitter || Instagram || TikTok

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:20 What made you want to tell this story of a man who is a witch, and his role in the judgement of witches? 02:23 Stacey's interest in James I and his favouritism of different male courtiers 04:22 The theatrical elements of the book 05:58 The torture of the accused 'witches' that led to fantasy stories being created 08:51 The influence of the printing press and propaganda pamphlets on the public's thoughts about accused women 10:02 About knot magic 12:09 The importance of having actual witches in the book and the impact of religion 14:32 Stacey's interest in taxidermy and Althamia's experience 16:41 Althamia's impact on the novel 17:54 The themes of grief and guilt in the book 20:51 Castor and Pollux 22:20 The writing style and narrative voice, and Stacey recommends Wolf Hall and A Little Life 25:24 All about Will and how he fits into the story 30:44 Is John Rush a witch?... And the fact he's left at large at the end 34:40 The initial execution scene did not originally happen... 35:57 Althamia says "Happy endings are beyond most people" and talks of proper endings - how does Stacey see The Revels in that sense? 39:15 Modern day apologies for witch hunters by the church 42:02 What Stacey's working on now (this turns into a lengthy discussion on debutantes and their publicity machines

With thanks to Jawnson.

Charlie and Celina Baljeet Basra (Happy) discuss the experiences undocumented migrants to Western Europe face, French film director Jean Luc Goddard's seminal film Bande À Part, Indian talkshow Koffee With Karan, and Celina's particular usage of Umbrella, ella, ella, eh, eh, eh.

The Abduction Of Europe A review of 'Park', the 2017 exhibition curated by Celina Bande À Part Bruce Bégout's Le Park Uski Roti There are no clips of the discussed Koffee With Karan episode on YouTube, but if you've the right channel, it is from 7th November 2010

Where to find Celina online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:48 Why Celina wanted to tell this story: inspiration from a distant relatives' migration from India to Italy 05:24 Celina's highly unique narrative structure (fragmented) and how she used it to further achieve her aims 09:45 Would there have been a way for Happy's life to improve, if what happened to him at the end didn't happen? 12:07 The real riot of exploited migrants that was mentioned in the book 14:36 The character of Europe and the way Celina created a woman from a continent 19:32 The importance of the presence of Happy's family in the novel 21:20 The phrases of Italian vocabulary included that shows us where Happy is in his learning about his new life 24:35 Wonderland - the real one in Jalandhar and Celina's fictionisation of it 28:53 The inclusion of Jean Luc Goddard's Bande À Part 34:35 The inclusion of Indian talkshow Koffee With Karan 40:22 Why Celina included the other narrative voices of Harbir and Zhivago at the end 43:37 What's next

Photo credit: Lilian Scarlet.

Charlie and Rachel Abbott (Don't Look Away) discuss young carers and the guilt they can feel, trafficking in Cornwall - both fact and fiction - and having her series' policewoman staying in the background of the story rather than take the spotlight. (We talk about that a couple of times, I loved it!)

Please note that there are mentions of suicide in this episode.

And So It Begins Stranger Child Come A Little Closer Sleep Tight About the trafficking at Newlyn Harbour in late 2019

Where to find Rachel online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:40 The inspiration for Nancy and Lola's story 03:15 Nancy's feeling of guilt as a young carer who failed to save her mother 06:23 The way Rachel really fleshes out the non-police characters in her thriller 11:05 How long Lola will be in prison 13:48 Research Rachel does in terms of the police 16:55 How important is policewomen Stephanie (the linking factor of the books) compared to Nancy (one of this book's victims)? 20:18 Stephanie is written in the third person and Nancy is in the first person... 22:20 Why set the book in Cornwall, and why create a fictional village in Cornwall 25:36 The trafficking in the book and real situations 29:34 How Rachel goes from one plot to many - the expansion 33:15 How Rachel uses technology in her books as opposed to finding tech makes things too easy 35:03 What's next for Stephanie King, book 4 in the series? 41:26 Was there anyone that Rachel's editing agent didn't like, or did really like? 43:26 Rachel's current work on her next Tom Douglas book

Photo credit: Andrew Crowley.

Charlie and Karen Hamilton (The Contest) discuss the specifics of climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and the vast support crews, her ridiculously privileged holidaying characters and where their requests are based in reality, and why everyone is obsessed with toilets. We then move on to an extensive discussion of the thriller aspect of Karen's book and whether, even though there is one killer in her book, there are in fact more.

Erick Kivelege's Climbing Kilimanjaro With Africa's Top Guide Kilimanjaro Porters Society

Where to find Karen online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:14 Mt Kilimanjaro and luxury travel 05:26 How climbing the mountain goes - the specifics of it 15:30 Karen's characters - Florence, Jacob, and Hugo 24:55 The grief in the book and the whole contest of two groups climbing Kilimanjaro 26:54 The violence and discussing who the killer is, and the associated theme of isolation 36:31 Ethical Getaways and BVT merging and the effect on Florence and Jacob 39:34 What's next (brief)

Photo credit: Emma Moore.

Charlie and Radhika Sanghani (I Wish We Weren't Related) discuss having alopecia, healing from being a people pleaser and self-empowerment in general, and her comic novel which includes an ex-fiance turned future brother-in-law, and a father who died, was not dead, but then died - true fictional story. Radhika's book also includes beloved cats, so we talk about cats too.

Asha Bhosle Pema Chödrön Marian Williamson talking about choosing between love and fear Radhika's novel 30 Things I Love About Myself

Where to find Radhika online

Twitter || Instagram

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:35 The inspiration, in particular the theme of healing from alopecia 04:39 The characters, in particular Saraswati in Bollywood 08:14 Satya Auntie, and spirituality, in particular Buddhism and what Marian Williamson teaches about all our decisions being due to love and fear 12:37 On character Reeva's people pleasing and our own! 15:27 Reeva's trauma from her accident 17:36 Reeva's speech at her father's funeral 19:21 The choices made in regards to Reeva and Nick's relationship 21:34 The importance of including a second funeral, this time for someone Reeva knew and loved 22:55 Cats! All the cats! 25:52 What Radhika wanted to say about family 27:14 What's next

Photo credit: SEBC Photography.

Charlie and Gill Paul (A Beautiful Rival) discuss the working lives of and rivalry between businesswomen Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein, and the antisemitism in the US during WW2. We also discuss our views of Wallis Simpson.

We spoke about Gill's book The Second Marriage (Jackie And Maria in the US) in episode 42 The Powder And The Glory Lindy Woodhead's Warpaint Cosmetics And Skin Gill's Another Woman's Husband Wendy Holden's The Duchess

Where to find Gill online

Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || TikTok

Where to find Charlie online

Website || Twitter || Instagram

Discussions

01:03 Why these women? 02:20 Elizabeth Arden and Helena Rubinstein hated each other but they never met... 02:59 Elizabeth's and Helena's backgrounds 07:28 The work Arden and Rubinstein put in to become successful 10:30 How Gill wrote her versions of Elizabeth and Helena 11:29 Elizabeth Arden's snobbery 13:46 The antisemitism in the West despite those countries going to war, particularly that coming from Arden 17:49 Irene Delaney, Elizabeth's forgotten 40-year-long PA 20:34 Moving factual events round to suit the narrative 22:24 Elizabeth employed her rival's ex-husband! 24:14 Advertisements and selling the companies 28:03 Helena Rubinstein's first husband was the publisher of Lady Chatterley's Lover 29:40 Rubinstein created the idea of skin types 32:39 The Suffragettes apparently wore lipstick on their marches, and talking about Gill's next book 34:53 What other people might Gill write about in future 36:33 Discussing our views of Wallis Simpson