According to some men there are two -- no, three levels to understanding any situation, and none of those levels involves apologizing for being an asshole on TV. We’re here to discuss The Bachelorette: Men Tell All with author Kelsey McKinney, Defector Media co-owner and co-host of the new podcast Normal Gossip!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices