Wanting Both: Motherhood, Art, and the Questions That Linger

Hi, it's Carissa, and this is Bad at Keeping Secrets.

For the longest time, I believed I’d just know whether I wanted to be a mom. Like a bolt of clarity would strike. But the truth is, I didn’t know. Not really. And for a long time, I thought I had to choose—between being an artist and being a mother. But here’s the thing:

I’m greedy. I want both.

And I think I’m not alone.

The world doesn’t make much space for the in-between—the questions, the ambivalence, the complexity of redefining what motherhood can look like. There's pressure to decide, to know, to fit within timelines and expectations. But what happens when we don’t? What happens when we still don’t know, even as time presses on? At 42 I am still trying to reconcile what the “right” thing is for my life and have come to terms with I will probably never really know.

This week, I sat down with the writer Ruthie Ackerman to talk about her new book, The Mother Code. Reading it was like having someone reach into my head and put my most private, unspoken thoughts onto the page. Ruthie names the tension so many of us feel—the biological clock ticking louder with each year, the internal tug-of-war between art and family, freedom and rootedness.

We talked about:

* Maternal ambivalence, the not being 100% sure if you want kids—how common it is, and how rarely we talk about it

* Redefining family narratives and how the women who raised us shape what we imagine for ourselves

* The desire to do life/motherhood differently—even when we don’t know what “different” looks like

* What is enoughness in life? Specifically, how delusional we are in romantic relationships.

Ruthie’s honesty cracked something open for me, and I think it will for you too. Whether you’re a parent, never want kids, feel unsure, or just love real conversations about the messiness of personhood, this episode is for you.

I’m so excited to share this one with you. I hope it resonates as deeply with you as it did with me.

If you know someone who is feeling ambivalent about life, motherhood, and art, I would be delighted if you shared this with them…

With love and curiosity,Carissa

PS Grab a copy of The Mother Code here. And I am a die-hard fan of her substack here:

PPS Bad At Keeping Secrets is a podcast by Carissa Potter (me). The audio was produced by Officially Quigley, and the sound editing was done by Mark McDonald. Mark helps people start podcasts, and I highly recommend him if you have been thinking about starting one. You can sign up for a free meeting with him here.

PPPS I have a book that is coming out SO SOON. Pre-order sales are crucial for helping us understand if there's interest in the book. If you’re able, please consider preordering your copy here.

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a podcast I do because I love doing it. Thanks for finding it. And getting up this morning. You rock.

Hi, it's Carissa, and this is Bad at Keeping Secrets. Before I had a kid, my garden was my holy place. Still is, just things are a little more wild now.

This week, I talk with Debbie Millman from Design Matters about her book Love Letter to a Garden—a quiet, beautiful reflection on what it means to grow something, and to be changed by it. That gardening offers us relief and connection in the face of uncertainty.

We talk about love, partnership, the cross-country move she made to be with Roxane Gay during the pandemic.

It’s a conversation about abundance, attention, and learning to choose what truly matters. I hope you find something, anything really that helps connect you in this moment.

“I’m so very lucky; I get to watch things live and grow and fade away. When I fail, I get to try again.” -Debbie Millman

A Love Letter to a Garden is the perfect gift for someone you love, offering a meditation of patience, trust, and the hope of something beautiful. Get a copy here.

Debbie Millman (born 1961) is an American writer, educator, artist, curator, and designer who is best known as the host of the podcast Design Matters.[1] She is the chair and co-founder of the Masters in Branding Program at the School of Visual Arts in New York City, with Steven Heller and President Emeritus of the American Institute of Graphic Arts (AIGA) and chair.[2]

Millman has authored seven books. She is a co-owner and editorial director of Print magazine.[3] Her writing and illustrations have appeared in many major publications, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Philadelphia Inquirer, New York Magazine, The Baffler, and Fast Company and more. Her artwork has been included in many museums and institutes including the Design Museum of Chicago and the Boston Biennale.[2]

As always, I have not given up on you. Or hoping. Just grateful to be with you in this moment. Love, Carissa

PS. I have a show opening in Santa Cruz on May 3rd. It is with Sydney who I love in her new space called And Friends.

PPS Bad At Keeping Secrets is a podcast by Carissa Potter (me). The audio was produced by Officially Quigley, and the sound editing was done by Mark McDonald. Mark helps people start podcasts, and I highly recommend him if you have been thinking about starting one. You can sign up for a free meeting with him here.

Hey everyone, it is Carissa and this is Bad at Keeping Secrets. What to do when you get dumped? There is no real guide, telling you how to actually just be. Today I am talking to mother/daughter collaborators Suzy Hopkins and Hallie Bateman about finding meaning and connection in difficult experiences. There is something so universal in our heartbreak that connects us all, this is truly a guide in unbreaking your heart. I hope you enjoy it.

Get a copy of the book here.

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a random newsletter talking about life stuff. It’s so cool that somehow you found your way here…

Got a friend dealing with heartbreak? They might need this post…

In case you don’t have the time to listen or get the book, we discussed Hallie and Suzy’s collaboration process, personal experiences with generational trauma, and the impact of heartbreak on their lives. We also explored the concept of finding meaning in difficult experiences and the importance of open communication in dealing with such issues. Our conversation ended with a discussion on the universality of emotions in the aftermath of heartbreak. We think we are alone, but we are so not alone.

Follow Hallie here:

Love to everyone. Including you. And those little things your heart desires. Those too.

Suzy and Hallie sent a copy of their book to give away to you! Comment here if you need this (people in the usa only, sorry I can’t ship worldwide, even though heartbreak is a global thing).

XO, Carissa

PS. Bad At Keeping Secrets is a podcast by Carissa Potter (me). The audio was produced by Officially Quigley, and the sound editing was done by Mark McDonald. Mark helps people start podcasts, and I highly recommend him if you have been thinking about starting one. You can sign up for a free meeting with him here.

PPS Just a last reminder that my new book Breathe Through It is available for preorder here. In case you are a highly anxious person and you want to start a meditation practice but don’t know where to start…

I am what they call a runner. I felt a connection with Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride—the idea that if you don’t like your situation in life, you can just leave. If you get fired from a job, there’s always a better one out there. If you’re not in love with your partner, you’re doing them a favor by calling it quits. Are you unhappy now? There’s something better out there—you’re just missing out…

But why, then, is my happy life so hard? We find ourselves stuck in a culture that tells us there is always something better than what we have right now. Yet, that leaves us with the sinking feeling that who we are is not enough.

This week, I’m talking to Lydia Sohn about her new book, Here. It’s a Christian book—I should start there. As someone who grew up in a very atheist household, I’ve seen firsthand how religious trauma can leave lasting scars. My father, for example, spent his life rebelling against Christmas because of the shame he felt growing up in a church that made him feel unworthy for not speaking in tongues. But something shifted this past holiday season. He said out loud, “Christmas can be enjoyable. I love the music and the food, and I just don’t have to think about it in terms of God or consumerism.” We all thought, WOW. What had changed in him that suddenly allowed him to take delight in the season, after spending most of his adult life rejecting it in favor of its pagan roots and the solstice?

If you have felt a little less alone when you are here, consider subscribing :)

Reading Here felt like a relief—like the weight of constantly searching for something better had been lifted off my shoulders. It introduces a few key concepts that truly resonated with me. And you don’t have to believe in God to feel them in your bones:

* You can trust yourself.

* You have to stay somewhere long enough to develop roots.

* You can’t change other people. (This is my struggle.)

* You have everything you need inside of you right now.

Lydia also shared her belief that great pain and great joy often go hand in hand—that experiencing pain can lead to experiencing joy. That sometimes, we get overwhelmed by endless possibilities, and in those moments, containment can be liberating.

For me, it always comes back to the question: How do you know when to stay and when to leave?

Ever thought of asking nature? Lydia suggests this, along with practices to help you learn to trust yourself.

When I picked up Lydia’s book, I was admittedly scrolling through Zillow, looking at homes in San Francisco, Minneapolis, and Orinda. I had been daydreaming about how much better my life would be if I were just somewhere else—somewhere I didn’t have to worry about being attacked every time I left the house or about M getting into a school that could meet her medical needs. And I know—we have to leave the house I love, the community I love. But I also recognize that leaving is a privilege. That’s a reality that should be part of the conversation too.

Lydia and I also discuss the word toxic and how we often use it to describe situations and people. She questions this term for two good reasons:

* No situation is entirely horrible or entirely great.

* Labeling someone as toxic removes the ownership and agency we have in any given situation. Most people, after all, are a mix of both stellar and not-so-stellar traits.

We end with something really special. I ask Lydia for a favor, and she delivers. I needed to ground myself in the moment—to take stock of all the good things in my life without the constant urge to move forward. So, I asked for a meditation—some comforting thoughts in a world that feels like it’s falling apart.

Fast forward to the end if you need some reassurance. You’ll find it in Lydia’s words. I promise.

Even though I am only culturally Christian, I found so much in the practices in this book. Thanks so much for letting me explore topics that connect us with me. You are so loved, and you are so not alone. XOXO, Carissa

PS. Bad At Keeping Secrets, the podcast is Carissa Potter (me). Audio by Officially Quigley. Sound editing by Mark McDonald. Mark is helping people start their podcasts, if you have been thinking about starting one, I would highly recommend him. Sign up for a free meeting with him here.

PPS You can find Lydia’s book, Here. (ha ha)

PPS I do this substack because I LOVE IT. I love talking to people. I love thinking about hard stuff. I love being here with you. If you want to support me and are having a hard time making decisions and trusting yourself, we made a deck for you with the world famous Annie Duke. Get a copy here. It also makes a great gift for all the people in your life who are feeling stuck right now…

PPPS Lydia Sohn is a mom, minister, and writer whose writings have appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, and The Christian Century, among others. One of her very first essays, "What Do 90-Somethings Regret Most" received over 700K views, leading it to be one of the top ten most-read essays on Medium. As an Asian American female minister, her voice is unique, fresh, and needed for today’s transient age.As a daughter of immigrants who moved to America in search of the American dream (and achieved it), she saw with her own eyes that all can be burned down to begin afresh at any time. But it wasn't until her adult years, after multiple moves and a life of chasing greener pastures, that she began to realize the power of stability and commitment and our miraculous abilities to transform our circumstances from the inside out.She lives in Claremont, California with her husband and three children.

We can control whether we merely endure our days or experience and enjoy them. We can control whether we arrive on our deathbeds feeling like we've wasted our time or end up satisfied with how we've spent our brief moment in the sun.

-Catherine Price

During my darkest moments in the pandemic, my therapist told me that I had to find joy to keep going. These days, I feel deeply hollow inside. I am not sure when it started exactly, but I feel trapped in trying to figure out how to dig myself back to feeling alive again.

“Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity.”― Simone Weil

I first found out about Catherine Price’s work with her book, “How To Break Up With Your Phone.” To celebrate the publication of the revised edition, Catherine is running a "February Phone Breakup Challenge" on her "How to Feel Alive" Substack for any readers who want to go through the book's four-week plan together. As an added bonus, she’s also offering her paid subscribers access to a private "Phone Breakup Support Group" Substack chat for February where they can ask questions, share experiences, and get advice—both from her and from the other participants.

It all started for me with the idea that I don’t have control over my happiness and my addiction to my phone for well-being has just gotten really bad. My phone is the first thing I check in the morning and the last thing in the evening. I think that the thing that really got to me was the idea that I keep wanting to go to this phone over doing anything else. I am working to fill some void and then when I get it (time on the phone) I actually feel worse. I don’t want to live my life only looking forward to spending time digitally. Something feels deeply wrong about this.

“I reached for my phone to soothe myself, but I often crossed the line from feeling soothed to going numb.”

— Catherine Price

Catherine is not anti-tech - she is just about exposing the ways that tech hi-jacks our brains into spending time on them to sell our data. She calls this “fake fun.” Fake fun is the kind of mind-numbing state that we somehow long to be in while doom-scrolling.

In her most recent book, “The Power of Fun,” she breaks down what fun is and why it is important in feeling alive. Having fun is actually one of the most important priorities that humans have in composing well-being. Her book is life-affirming on so many levels and is an actionable guide on finding fun and making fun. The kind of fun that gives you energy, not drains you.

Having fun helps us feel awake and present for our super brief time on this planet.

Listen here to our very first really real podcast. I am so very proud of it. It would mean the world to me if you shared it with someone right now who needs to hear it, to have a little more fun in their lives.

Before you go, Catherine also has a Substack that you need to check out.

Bad At Keeping Secrets, the podcast is Carissa Potter. Audio by Officially Quigley. Sound editing by Mark McDonald. Mark is helping people start their podcasts, if you have been thinking about starting one, I would highly recommend him. Sign up for a free meeting with him here.

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Hi, it’s Carissa, and welcome to Bad at Keeping Secrets! Today, I’m chatting with Liana Finck, an amazing cartoonist, author, and regular contributor to The New Yorker. Liana’s known for her sharp, thoughtful work, including her graphic memoir Passing for Human, and I found her on instagram ages ago - her work is SO relatable, and funny, and just real.

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a newsletter that tackles emotional messes. We love having you here.

In this episode, we explore her journey as a storyteller, her perspective on art and communication, and even how she balances creativity with motherhood. It is a weird feeling to meet someone and have so many life parallels. Always feeling like you were different, our art actually argues that we are normal humans. We talk about feeling shy, what that actually means, why we make things, how we identify (artist, writer, cartoonist, etc.), and what it means to feel like an outsider.

Her most recent book, Mixed Feelings came out last week, and let me tell you it is great. For kids. For adults. For plants and possibly aliens.

If you are one of those people who is like why would an adult be interested in a kids book about feelings? Let me share a few spreads that are so relatable to EVERY age:

Who has not felt this way on the daily?

Or this one:

Here are a few places you can order or buy Mixed Feelings:

* Bookshop

* Books Are Magic

* Lofty Pigeon

* Amazon

* Barnes + Noble

If you like my work, chances are you will LOVE Liana. She is so much smarter and raw than I am. Check out her substack here:

As a person who is perpetually lonely in crowded rooms…

I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Wishing you the ability to find moments of joy within this s**t show called life. Very grateful for you.

XO, Carissa

PS This music for this podcast is by Casey Goode (my sister). The podcast was edited by Mark McDonald who makes me feel like I am a natural podcaster (even tho I am clearly not…).

PPS I am 41 years old and I still forget that hanger is a thing and that might just be why I am so crabby… how about you?

What is your stress telling you? Just curious… Mine is that I need to change my expectations for myself…

Before we got sick, and then my business shapeshifted, and the globe felt increasingly less safe, I recorded this podcast with Dr. Aditi Nerukar, stress expert and author of The Five Resets: Rewire Your Brain and Body for Less Stress and More Resilience.

I swear I was not always this way, so stressed. There were times in my life when I was a free-flowing lover of time and people and the usefulness of worry was only for major life events. And yet, somehow over the past few years, my shoulders have become tense, I now take drugs to be able to sleep through the night, and every time my daughter coughs I wonder if we should go to the hospital.

Share this post with someone who could use some help with their stress.

The question of when stress becomes unhealthy is a tricky one. No one really invites stress in, some might argue that a little stress here and there is good for motivation. Maybe. But what about when your face goes numb? And you can’t seem to leave the house? the pressure of worry just takes up all of the space where joy used to live?

We have everything we need. We are definitely in the camp of people who have enough to eat and a house and love, so why can’t we enjoy it? And why are all these weird health issues coming up?

The 5 Resets has been literally on my bedside table since I got it. In this interview, we talk about the five universal truths about stress, toxic resilience, the relationship between stress and biology (newsflash: everything is connected), and science-backed super easy ways to help without major life changes.

I am literally still working on this. But I found this book super helpful. SO SO helpful I begged Dr. Nerukar to come talk to me about it. Ha.

I hope you get some peace today. And every day, with gratitude, Carissa

Get a copy of her book here.

Two final thoughts:

* The music in BAKS is by my sister, Casey Goode.

* The audio is edited by:

* This interview and writing was not touched by AI. I am going to end by saying that. I am not against AI, I think it is an effective tool. I am just interested in humans. How we think and feel outside of AI. That’s all. Perhaps I am just getting old and I am ok with that, sort of.

* We just came out with some new birthday cards at People I’ve Loved. If you want to support BAKS AND need a card, visit www.peopleiveloved.com

“Inside our words and actions, the people we love live on through us.”

-Lissa Soep, Other People’s Words

What makes us… well us? What makes our ideas our own? I learned when I grew up that I was a unique person and the origins of my ideas were somewhere in my mind. They came from a “soul” of sorts. These ideas and words were ownable by me. Whatever I did and said it came from this place, this soul that somehow was shaped by forces that I didn’t understand and yet still very much present.

A very unstatisfactory understanding that comes from psycologists is: the mind. The things that we call ideas are electrical impulses connecting the dots from information storied in the brain.

I felt upset when people “took” my ideas as their own. Not offering them the grace that they were also entitled to feel and think what their brains/bodies came up with. I remember so many conversations about the “theft” of an idea or word as being stolen or a violation of sorts. That ideas and words were like paintings or any unique physical object, they could be sold and traded. That there was indeed a physical form to each.

However, as I age, my understanding of where ideas come from and how identities form has shifted from static and innate in origin to something learned through mirroring and exposure.

In her book, Other People’s Words, Lissa Soep (who I loved almost at, “hello”) grapples with the loss of two good friends. She revisits the theories of 20th-century Russian linguist and literary critic Mikhail Bakhtin whose idea of how language works offers a life for the people she loves beyond death as we traditionally understand it. Mikhail Bakhtin frees language from a single context - divested from the idea that we possess our speech and creativity becomes anonymous.

“The way in which I create myself is by means of a quest. I go out into the world in order to come back with a self.”― M.M. Bakhtin

Just imagine for a moment that your words, actions, and self are all literally made up of the people you love. Ever catch yourself saying something your mother did without warning? Or using a phrase that someone you admire did? This is how the people we love ripple and echo through us. And how they live on.

Where do you find comfort in loss? (I REALLY WANT TO KNOW!!!)

In a moment where we are trying to make sense of the grief of losing someone without the guarantee of some afterlife, there is a comfort to be found in how our sense of self is composed by the interactions we have had. That the friends we have spent time with, become a literal part of us because of how language and creativity work inside our brains.

“...Truth is not born nor is it to be found inside the head of an individual person, it is born between people collectively searching for truth, in the process of their dialogic interaction.”― Bakhtin M.M.

In some ways, by talking about our own loss, by using the words we have learned through others, we honor their existence.

The specialness of existence is pretty mind blowing.

Thanks for being here.

Bad At Keeping Secrets, the podcast is Stephanie Tsou and Carissa Potter. Audio by Officially Quigley. Sound editing by Mark McDonald. Mark is helping people start their podcasts, if you have been thinking about starting one, I would highly recommend him. Sign up for a free meeting with him here.

“[Friendship] is a relationship that has no formal shape, there are no rules or obligations or bonds as in marriage or the family, it is held together by neither law nor property nor blood, there is no glue in it but mutual liking. It is therefore rare.”― Wallace Stegner, Crossing to Safety

Recently, I read something somewhere that admitting you were lonely was one of the most shameful things someone could do. And yet, I do it all the time. Without shame. I am lonely. Yes. What is weird is that I also crave alone time. Which I don’t have and seems so luxurious after having a kid.

What does feeling lonely mean then? I thought it was a longing to be around people but really, it is not that at all. Lonely for me is a hunger to feel seen, safe, and cared for.

This week I got the honor and it was a true pleasure to talk to Priya Parker about how to create rituals that matter. Priya works to help people create collective meaning in their lives through gatherings. She is a master facilitator, strategic advisor, acclaimed author of The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why it Matters, and the host and executive producer of the New York Times podcast, Together Apart.

Being inclusive can also mean everyone is not invited.

One thing that I was kinda shocked by, in the interview was the concept of Generous Exclusion. I come from a family and community where everyone is invited. The goal of this is to have everyone know they are welcome and wanted. Priya says that this is often done because people want to be inclusive, but inclusivity needs to match the purpose of the gathering. By curating our gatherings around the purpose, Priya says that we can feel held. That more people is not always the answer to creating more collective meaning. It is being intentional about who you invite and why.

How are you making meaning right now?

So I test-drove some of Priya’s advice for Easter this year. I am culturally Judeo-Christian, but not practicing. I wanted to create a ritual for finding hope and possibility in the spring. To make time to look at the buds on the trees and imagine the beauty about to blossom right around the corner. The flowers and sweet smells promised by the change in season. I hosted an egg-dying gathering with two other families from M’s school.

In the past, Easter has not been a thing I thought too much about. Since I was raised Unitarian, we had baskets with candy arrive on Sunday am. We knew it was our parents, but that didn’t really take the fun or magic out of a basket filled with pastel colors and candy. It was the default. It was nice.

For this egg party, I wanted to invite everyone, but Priya’s (and Josh’s voice) said to keep it small. It was still chaos. We started with a meditation where we used our five senses to see a lemon, finishing with taste and holding there for a few moments. I bet you can feel it now in your mouth starting to salivate and your jaw tightening. It’s risky to eat sour food. But a little risk is often invigorating and exciting.

Who do you gather with? Share this so you can create something together… if you want.

After holding the lemon in our mouths, we contrasted it with a cube of sugar (yes my teeth are rotting out of my mouth. Sorry dentists). I was hoping to create a feeling in our bodies of relief. That was coming with the change in seasons. That we had all been through so much, that something good was coming. And just, what if everything worked out?

The party was fun. Or I had fun. I got to feel grateful to be around people and learn about how we all contain so many versions of ourselves. It was a gathering I wanted to be at. I wanted to feel grounded in the fact that time was moving forward, and I had very little if any control, but at least I didn’t feel alone.

If you want a quick FREE guide for creating meaningful gatherings, Priya made one just for Bad At Keeping Secrets: Priya Parker x People I've Loved

In the guide, you’ll find 5 ways to QUICKLY build belonging, a feeling I am desperate for. And why introverts make good hosts. Surprise. Who knew?

If you are interested in more than a quick guide, here is where you can find more information:

* The Art of Gathering Digital Course

* The Art of Gathering book 

* The Art of Gathering newsletter

Lastly, thanks for reading and being here. I got so many sweet notes about the decision to change the People I’ve Loved. It made me feel so supported in one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made. I am grateful for you. Just so you know.

ALSO, Take 25% off anything you want through April on People I've Loved. Get your mom a card in which you tell her how you feel about her. Or not. But it helps us clean out the studio and you are supporting a small business.

USE CODE: FORMOM25

xo, Carissa

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

We are in this amazing moment where we are trying to make a more equitable future by the ways that we structure our time and resources. We have never had more freedom to create meaning and systems that serve us. But cis women in hetero-relationships are still doing more of the work and feeling burnt out as the default parent even when they are also the breadwinners.

I became a fan of Eve Rodsky when I saw her documentary. She is a Harvard-trained lawyer who works with families (like the one in Succession) to mediate wealth management and distribution. What does that mean? I only have TV and movie reference points.

Eve had a day where she broke down over not getting the correct blueberries for her husband’s smoothies. Why should she be responsible for household management, family and social planning, and finance?

The data is in – women actually do more work. And as a culture, we value their time less. Take for example, the idea that breastfeeding is free. Have you heard that? I sure have. I even thought it during the super brief week I was able to do it. BUT it’s not. It costs time. And we live in a culture where time is money.

We need to start by uncoupling money with time.

In her book, Fair Play, Eve helps us actually do the thing – make the work we do visible to our partners, have the hard conversations, and ask for what we need to create a more equitable and sustainable partnership.

This is good for everyone. Bringing to light unspoken assumptions about who should do what and whose time is valuable. I hope you enjoy. Visit Eve’s website for TONS of free resources.

BAD AT KEEPING SECRETS is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.