Reserve Bank Governor Michele Bullock has hit out at Australia's big four banks for standing in the way of making shopping cheaper for customers.

The RBA wants to ban surcharges on card payments. To fund the ban, it wants to dramatically cut the interchange fees paid by retailers for accepting cards. The Australian Banking Association argues the cuts will make it harder for banks to invest in scam and fraud prevention.

• Guest: Simon Birmingham, CEO, Australian Banking Association and former Liberal senator
• Producer: Grace Stranger