Has crypto already bottomed, or is more pain still ahead? Mike and Ryan break down the bull and bear case in full, from Bitcoin fair value and market structure to global liquidity, AI demand, and the macro risks still hanging over markets. Mike explains why he thinks the setup still looks more like a bear market than a new uptrend, even if the odds are close. It’s a sharp episode on how to navigate a market that could break either way.

Michael Nadeau & The DeFi Report:

https://x.com/JustDeauIt
https://thedefireport.io/bankless 

---

📣GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING

https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne   

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING

https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🌐BRIX | EMERGING MARKET YIELD

https://bankless.cc/brix

---

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

1:18 Understanding the crypto cycle

3:23 The wealth destruction phase

5:30 Defining the current market conditions

8:14 Reflecting on past market battles

11:15 The four-year cycle explained

13:19 The impact of liquidity cycles

17:12 Analyzing the S&P and market health

20:34 The bullish case for crypto

24:07 Exploring on-chain metrics

27:16 The bear case outlined

32:14 The difficulty of market navigation

44:26 Summarizing the bearish perspective

48:12 Market uncertainty

59:54 Closing & disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Michael Saylor thinks Bitcoin is headed to $21 million, but the real story in this conversation is how he believes it gets there. In his first appearance on Bankless, Saylor breaks down Strategy’s evolving capital machine, why STRC may be the most ambitious instrument the company has built yet, how he thinks about quantum risk without panic, why his view on Ethereum has become more constructive, and what he means when he says the endgame is giving the world an 8% bank account forever.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24
https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING
https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT
https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
1:00 Michael Saylor’s $21M Bitcoin thesis
4:33 What has to go right for Bitcoin to get there
11:00 Has Bitcoin adoption stalled out?
13:20 Why STRC became Strategy’s breakout product
18:05 The pitch behind a Bitcoin-backed money market
21:13 How STRC is engineered to stay stable
27:31 Where the 11.5% yield comes from
36:35 Is Strategy taking too much risk?
46:50 Does Strategy ever stop buying Bitcoin?
58:48 Quantum, panic, and the Bitcoin response
1:16:18 Michael Saylor on Ethereum today
1:25:46 “Fix the money, fix the world”
1:38:39 The crypto reactor and Strategy’s endgame

---
RESOURCES

Michael Saylor
https://x.com/saylor

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Markets are rallying on a fragile Iran ceasefire, but the real risks may be getting closer.

David and Haseeb break down Anthropic’s secretive new AI model and why it could expose vulnerabilities across crypto, from smart contracts to core blockchain infrastructure, plus the growing divide around “Q-Day” and how urgent the quantum threat really is.

They also unpack Iran’s unexpected use of Bitcoin in global trade, the White House’s stance on stablecoin yields, and why the market feels stable on the surface while bigger risks continue to build.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24

https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING

https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

1:56 Ceasefire in Iran

https://images.wsj.net/im-97657631 

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2041728989119529307

https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/2041867478033195336

15:43 Two Polymarkets of Relevance

https://polymarket.com/event/iran-x-israelus-conflict-ends-by/?via=bankless?

70% chance the conflict ends by April 30

https://polymarket.com/event/will-the-us-invade-iran-before-2027/?via=bankless?

30% chance!

17:50 Anthropic Releases Project Glasswing 

https://x.com/AnthropicAI/status/2041578392852517128

https://red.anthropic.com/2026/mythos-preview/

https://x.com/DarioAmodei/status/2041580338426585171

https://x.com/hosseeb/status/2041579488224657581

https://x.com/kevinsxu/status/2042065892658258357

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2041256570462326843

48:49 Satoshi is Adam Back?

57:44 The White House Weighs in on the Stablecoin Yield Debate

https://www.whitehouse.gov/research/2026/04/effects-of-stablecoin-yield-prohibition-on-bank-lending/

1:02:04 $MON trading above ICO price!

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/monad

1:05:47 Closing & Disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Can Ethereum become one economic zone again?

Martin Koppelmann and Friederike Ernst from Gnosis explain how real-time proving and the Ethereum Economic Zone could reconnect fragmented rollups, unify liquidity, and give specialized chains seamless access to Ethereum’s settlement and security.

------

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24

https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

------

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING
https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT
https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

0:18 Fixing Fragmentation

7:49 Ethereum Economic Zone Explained

26:19 EEZ Thin Layer

30:30 Block Builders

33:06 The Bull Case

35:18 Ethereum Reorg

42:56 Layer2 EEZ Adoption

50:47 A New Age for Builders

55:54 How to Get Involved

57:42 EEZ Rollout

1:00:51 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

Martin Koppelman

https://x.com/koeppelmann 

Friederike Ernst

https://x.com/tw_tter 

EEZ

https://eez.io/ 

EEZ GitHub

https://github.com/eez-association 

Gnosis

https://www.gnosis.io/ 

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠ 

NYSE and Securitize are laying the rails to bring real, issuer-backed securities onchain. 

Michael Blaugrund of NYSE and Carlos Domingo of Securitize break down how blockchain-native equities could work in practice: transfer agents, tokenized issuance, interoperable trading infrastructure, 24/7 markets, and what it will take for public stocks to move from legacy rails to crypto rails. T

They also explore how onchain equities could unlock faster settlement, better shareholder utility, and new DeFi use cases without sacrificing regulatory compliance.

------

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24

https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

------

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING

https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

------

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro

0:52 NYSE x Securitize Partnership

4:57 Digital Transfer Agent

8:39 Blockchain Infrastructure

11:07 NYSE Alternative Trading System

17:01 Every NYSE Asset?

22:30 Portability & KYC

33:38 RWA Decentralization Debate

38:47 New NYSE Paradigm

44:46 24/7 365 Markets

48:03 Clarity Act

52:21 Issuer Choice

57:08 Tokenized Securities vs Perpetuals

1:00:24 Securitize Going Public

1:03:20 When Launch

1:04:04 Closing & Disclaimers

------
RESOURCES

Carlos Domingo

https://x.com/carlosdomingo 

Michael Blaugrund

https://x.com/mblaugrund 

Securitize

https://securitize.io/ 

RWA Decentralization Debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-h-PeUOvDw

------

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

What if Bitcoin’s biggest strength becomes its fatal weakness? Nic Carter joins Bankless to unpack why the latest quantum papers changed the threat model, why a 2029 migration window could leave Bitcoin dangerously behind, what a real post-quantum transition would require, and why the fight over Satoshi’s dormant coins may become the most explosive governance battle in Bitcoin history.

---
🎬 DEBRIEF | RYAN & DAVID UNPACKING THE EPISODE
https://www.bankless.com/podcast/debrief-bitcoin-has-3-years-to-survive-nic-carter

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING
https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT
https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Nic Carter’s Stark Warning
3:55 Bitcoin’s Status Quo Problem
9:36 The New Quantum Papers
12:07 When Breakthroughs Go Dark
16:28 “We will not get significant prior notice”
21:24 The 9-Minute Attack
31:33 Why 2029 suddenly matters
34:24 Post-Quantum Tradeoffs
46:03 Why Bitcoin Isn’t Reacting
52:21 The Satoshi coin problem
1:02:54 Nic’s salvage-law alternative
1:10:13 Why Ethereum looks more prepared
1:12:25 Does Bitcoin Survive?

---
RESOURCES

Nic Carter
https://x.com/nic_carter

Nic’s takeaways from quantum papers
https://murmurationstwo.substack.com/p/my-takeaways-from-googles-and-oratomics

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Google just dropped a major quantum warning for crypto, claiming a breakthrough that could accelerate the timeline to breaking Bitcoin and Ethereum’s core security. Ryan and David unpack what changed, how real the threat is, and why the industry may need to act sooner than expected.

Plus: Trump signals three more weeks in the Iran conflict and markets shrug it off, a $285M Solana DeFi hack exposes critical flaws, Ethereum’s new plan to unify L2s, and why crypto wallets are rapidly turning into full financial super apps.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24

https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 

🪐GALAXYONE | SOLANA STAKING

https://bankless.cc/GalaxyOne

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW

https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

1:46 Worst BTC Q1 Since 2018

https://www.theblock.co/post/395991/bitcoin-worst-q1-since-2018

https://imgur.com/Y8V3LyR 

3:15 Trump, Iran & Market Reaction

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2039508709374636457

https://polymarket.com/event/us-forces-enter-iran-by/?via=bankless

https://polymarket.com/event/us-x-iran-ceasefire-by/?via=bankless

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2039525222311731260

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2039516924762096021

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2039715963730305106

https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/2039718732361040022

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2039691820419235841

https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/2038650848931193203 

https://x.com/robinhanson/status/2038778655204122748

https://x.com/natesilver538/status/2038711622043144529

https://polymarket.com/event/which-party-will-win-the-house-in-2026/?via=bankless

https://polymarket.com/event/which-party-will-win-the-senate-in-2026/?via=bankless

18:35 Google’s Quantum Warning for Crypto

https://quantumai.google/static/site-assets/downloads/cryptocurrency-whitepaper.pdf

https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.28627

https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/2038847732152996108

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2038804571791761821

https://x.com/mreiffy/status/2038878566796988776

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2039065325627396309

https://x.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/2039403067511341368

https://x.com/_jonasschnelli_/status/2039049535822147890

41:39 $285M Drift Hack on Solana

https://x.com/DriftProtocol/status/2039564437795836039

https://defillama.com/perps

https://x.com/dbcrypt0/status/2039677244734677186

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/drift-protocol

https://x.com/StaniKulechov/status/2039587524075491794

https://x.com/haydenzadams/status/2039560830862164329

47:08 Ethereum Economic Zones & Aave V4

https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2038625973260722336

https://x.com/etheconomiczone/status/2038271122907578375

https://x.com/jbaylina/status/2038277153641377865

56:09 X Crypto Wallet + Phantom Super App

https://x.com/benjitaylor/status/2036882102420201832

https://x.com/Marczeller/status/2038300072367017988

https://x.com/phantom/status/2039027553940480448

57:43 Apyx, OpenAI, SpaceX & April Fools

https://x.com/RyanSAdams/status/2037607121676603530

https://x.com/hyperbridge/status/2039318963486625880

1:03:37 Closing & Disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Three macro forces are converging that almost no one is pricing in correctly. Jeff Park returns to Bankless to lay out what he calls the "certain truths" shaping markets for the next two decades: collapsing demographics across every major economy, wealth concentration that now exceeds even the Gilded Age, and a labor market being structurally hollowed out by AI before robots even arrive.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24
https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🦊 METAMASK | DOWNLOAD NOW
https://go.metamask.io/BL-Pod-Download

🪐GALAXY | INSTITUTIONAL DIGITAL FINANCE
https://bankless.cc/galaxy-podcast

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT
https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
3:07 Certain Truth #1: Global Demographic Headwinds
8:26 What a Top-Heavy Population Means for Markets
15:05 The Japan Counter-Argument
26:01 Certain Truth #2: Wealth Concentration at Critical Levels
32:48 Capital Flight, Unrealized Gains, and the Drag on Demand
43:17 Real Estate as the Epicenter of Distortion
48:05 Bitcoin as a Spending and Savings Asset
52:08 Certain Truth #3: The Value of Labor Approaching Zero
1:01:27 The AI Industrial Revolution Comparison
1:04:38 The Convergence: Why All Three Truths Collide Now
1:08:19 Lightning Round: Asset Class Outlook
1:27:49 Closing Thoughts

---
RESOURCES

Jeff Park
https://x.com/dgt10011

Jeff’s paper
https://x.com/dgt10011/status/2031757205888762205

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

We examine the proposed Clarity Act and its impact on stablecoin yields and crypto finance. Ryan and David discuss geopolitical tensions in Iran and their effects on global markets. 

Highlights include Tom Lee's ETH staking venture, the NYSE's stock tokenization, and emerging quantum computing developments. We also touch on Coinbase’s stock dip, Tether’s auditing, and Fannie Mae's acceptance of crypto as collateral.

---

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS

https://thedefireport.io/bankless

---

BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET

https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast 

🪐GALAXY | INSTITUTIONAL DIGITAL FINANCE

https://bankless.cc/galaxy-podcast 

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT

https://bankless.cc/bitget

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN

https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---

TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES

0:00 Intro

3:29 Macro & Markets (Oil, War, Fed)

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2035516932498030879

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/2036053106081902692

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2036811133915455745

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2037023604697710673

https://x.com/KobeissiLetter/status/2035862840284688507

https://x.com/Stocktwits/status/2036859288572862887

https://www.theblock.co/post/394878/bernstein-says-bitcoin-looks-bottomed-sees-226-upside-for-strategy

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UMCSENT

https://thedefireport.io/research/markets-are-complacent#views-on-macro-oil-geopolitics

23:12 The Clarity Act and Stablecoin Yields

https://x.com/EleanorTerrett/status/2036279124382077137

https://x.com/nic_carter/status/2036469040684646844

https://x.com/Matt_Hougan/status/2036931850292387929

https://x.com/pete_rizzo_/status/2036420229543206962

https://x.com/StockSavvyShay/status/2036449942060015818

37:15 Tether Developments and Market Reactions

https://x.com/paoloardoino/status/2036428992195039699

https://x.com/nicrypto/status/2036387424620904893

https://x.com/BrendanPedersen/status/2036857950367567951

https://x.com/Shaughnessy119/status/2036876676852752674

https://polymarket.com/event/clarity-act-signed-into-law-in-2026/?via=bankless

40:55 Tokenizing Stocks: NYSE's New Partner

https://x.com/WSJ/status/2036411699633250532

https://x.com/BSCNews/status/2035019819238506993

45:54 Crypto-Backed Mortgages

https://x.com/zoomerfied/status/2037130261469462914

https://x.com/0xNairolf/status/2037149525022806030

https://x.com/DollarDecay/status/2037183407273161104

47:30 Ethereum's Staking Infrastructure Launch

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitmine-immersion-technologies-bmnr-announces-launch-of-mavan-made-in-america-validator-network-the-companys-proprietary-staking-solution-302724419.html

55:37 Stablecoins and Their Limitations in Freedom

https://x.com/aave/status/2036828379043787194

https://pq.ethereum.org/

https://x.com/charliesmirkley/status/2035364269873881322

https://www.theunseenandtheunsaid.com/p/the-great-american-tax-migration

58:30 Closing & Disclaimers

---

Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:

https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

MIT economist Christian Catalini joins Ryan and David to unpack his new paper, "Some Simple Economics of AGI," which argues that the scarce resource in the AI economy is no longer intelligence but verification: the human capacity to check, judge, and certify that AI output is correct. Christian walks through the two cost curves reshaping every industry (cost to automate vs. cost to verify), explains why entry-level jobs are collapsing first through what he calls the "missing junior loop," why even top experts are unknowingly training their replacements (the "codifier's curse"), and maps out the three roles that survive the transition: Directors, Meaning Makers, and Liability Underwriters.

---

📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24
https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium

---
BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:

🔮POLYMARKET | #1 PREDICTION MARKET
https://bankless.cc/polymarket-podcast

🪐GALAXY | INSTITUTIONAL DIGITAL FINANCE
https://bankless.cc/galaxy-podcast

🏅BITGET TRADFI | TRADE GOLD WITH USDT
https://bankless.cc/bitget

🎯THE DEFI REPORT | ONCHAIN INSIGHTS
https://thedefireport.io/bankless

🐇MEGAETH | 1ST REAL-TIME BLOCKCHAIN
https://bankless.cc/megaeth

---
TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Intro
3:42 The Low-Grade Panic
6:43 Who Gets Hit First, and Hardest?
13:06 Coding as Canary, or Exception?
16:21 Human Cognition Was the Binding Constraint
19:59 What Is Verification, Exactly?
29:10 The Codifier's Curse
31:21 The Expanding Iceberg: Non-Measurable Work
38:32 The Two Racing Cost Curves
41:59 Trojan Horse Externality
48:46 The Four Quadrants: Where Do You Want to Be?
54:12 Liability Underwriters and the Venture Capital Parallel
55:41 Directors: Navigating Unknown Unknowns
59:49 60-80% of Your Job Can Be Displaced
1:06:24 Button Pushers vs. Founders: The Great Resorting
1:12:08 The Luddite Risk: Political Backlash Against AI
1:17:30 What Companies and Investors Should Do
1:22:56 The Crypto Connection
1:25:11 Don't Panic: A Closing Playbook

---
RESOURCES

Christian Catalini
https://x.com/ccatalini

Some Simple Economics of AGI
https://arxiv.org/html/2602.20946v2

Christian’s thread on his paper
https://x.com/ccatalini/status/2026311784421036223

---
Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:
https://www.bankless.com/disclosures