BDO's Legal Tech Talk Podcast

Guest Notes

Tom Pfennig is a global leader in digital transformation, renowned for his pioneering work in digitalizing Legal, Compliance, and Data Privacy services worldwide. Licensed as an attorney in both Germany and New York, Tom brings over 20 years of professional experience and has cultivated a global network of General Counsels, Chief Compliance Officers, Senior Partners, Executives, and Regulators, all united by a commitment to innovation and excellence. As the former head of Bayer’s legal, compliance, and data privacy digital transformation—a program recognized by the Financial Times as “Most Innovative in Europe”—he led a diverse team of 150 professionals from more than 25 countries. Now the CEO and Founder of Transforming.Legal, one of the world’s most dynamic legal transformation boutiques, Tom is a passionate advocate for legal tech and generative AI, focusing on streamlining workflows and empowering legal teams. A graduate of IMD Lausanne’s Digital Transformation Programs, he is also a sought-after speaker, panelist, and lecturer on business ethics and digital transformation at leading European universities. Inspired by Bob Marley’s philosophy, Tom is a devoted husband and father of three, dedicated to shaping the future of law and compliance through data-driven, client-centric innovation.

Guest LinkedIn

Tom Pfennig | Linkedin

Key Takeaways

1. Active listening is fundamental to successful legal transformation, enabling leaders to authentically reflect the evolving needs of their teams and clients.

2. Legal technology should be deployed to solve real problems identified through systematic portfolio mapping and pruning, rather than searching for issues to justify tech adoption.

3. The legal function can become more agile and value-adding by adopting process-driven, continuous improvement strategies similar to those in finance and procurement.

4. Building trust and driving measurable value in legal operations requires ongoing engagement, listening, and matching technology solutions to genuine pain points.

Guest Intro:

Bjarne Tellmann is CEO of FjordStream Advisors, a consultancy dedicated to empowering legal leaders and organizations to navigate disruption, embrace change, and achieve transformative impact. With decades of award-winning global experience as General Counsel and a key member of executive teams at several large public companies, Bjarne is a recognized expert in organizational excellence, digital transformation, and talent development. He leverages his extensive leadership background to deliver strategic insights and innovative solutions tailored to legal organizations and executives.

Guest LinkedIn:

Bjarne Philip Tellmann | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. Transformation Requires Teams:

Legal change succeeds when diverse teams work together, not just through individual expertise.

2. Skillsets Must Evolve:

Legal professionals need both deep expertise and broad, multidisciplinary skills—especially as AI reshapes the field.

3. Culture Is Critical:

Breaking down silos and fostering curiosity and collaboration are essential for real transformation.

4. Continuous Learning Is Vital:

Staying curious and adaptable is key in a rapidly changing legal landscape.

5. Education Needs an Overhaul:

Law schools must teach emotional intelligence, technology, and business—not just legal analysis.

6. Human Skills Still Matter:

AI will automate tasks, but interpersonal and leadership skills remain crucial.

7. Clients Drive Change:

As companies transform digitally, legal departments and law firms must keep pace.

8. Ask Better Questions:

Success depends on asking insightful questions and leveraging new tools for deeper understanding.

Guest’s Notes: Featured on this special reunion episode are multiple guests from the past few seasons of BDO’s Legal Tech Talk.

Key Takeaways:

1. AI Enhances, Not Replaces, Human Judgment:

Generative AI is a powerful tool that accelerates legal workflows and analysis, but it cannot substitute for the nuanced decision-making and expertise of legal professionals.

2. Transparency and Ethics Are Crucial for AI Adoption:

Successful integration of AI in legal practice depends on clear, transparent processes and strong ethical guardrails to ensure accuracy, address bias, and maintain professional responsibility.

3. Human Empathy and Discretion Remain Essential:

While technology can automate routine tasks, qualities like empathy, ethical reasoning, and discretion are uniquely human and vital for effective client service and leadership.

4. Legal Operations and Billing Models Are Evolving:

AI is driving change in legal operations, making processes more efficient and potentially shifting the industry away from traditional billable hours toward fixed-fee and value-based pricing.

5. Collaboration and Adaptability Are Key:

The rapid pace of technological change requires legal professionals to collaborate across disciplines and continually adapt, ensuring they stay relevant and deliver greater value to clients.

Guest Notes:

Karissa Boley is the Director of Legal Operations at Baker Hughes. With more than 20 years of experience, I am a strategic leader and business strategist who believes clear thinking creates clear communication.

Guest LinkedIn: Karissa Boley | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

Clarity First:

Make communications clear, concise, and actionable.

Repeat Messages:

People need to hear a message six times for it to stick—use multiple channels.

Monitor and Adjust:

Track feedback and metrics to improve message effectiveness.

Align with Business Goals:

Tailor communications to support company objectives.

Leverage Leaders:

Use champions and leadership to reinforce important messages.

Manage Change Fatigue:

Recognize message overload and use impactful, targeted communications.

Promote AI as a Skill:

Encourage learning and adoption of AI as a valuable skillset.

Keep Emails Short:

Use brief subject lines and concise content to boost engagement.

Build Community:

Connect with peers and experts for ongoing support and learning.

Guest Notes

Derek Mogck is the Head of Legal Operations at Munich Re America Services, a role that places him at the intersection of legal strategy, operational efficiency, and innovation. He is recognized as a thought leader in legal operations, frequently featured at industry events such as Running Legal Like a Business (RLLB) 2025, where he joins other top legal ops professionals from global organizations.

His work focuses on optimizing legal service delivery, leveraging technology, and aligning legal functions with broader business goals. With a background in litigation and business advisory, Derek brings a strategic and pragmatic approach to legal operations leadership.

Guest LinkedIn

Derek Mogck | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• Strategic planning in legal operations requires flexibility and the ability to pivot as business needs, leadership, and external factors change, without viewing these shifts as failures.
• Successful technology adoption in legal departments starts with identifying real business problems and use cases, ensuring that process and technology work together as equal partners rather than chasing the latest trends.
• The insurance industry, while sometimes perceived as old-fashioned, is actively embracing digital transformation and innovative technologies, with many tech-savvy professionals driving change from within.
• Thoughtful, deliberate responses and time for reflection are increasingly valuable in today’s fast-paced environment; legal operations professionals add significant value by providing wise counsel and helping leaders process information carefully before making decisions.

Guest Notes

Christina Wojcik is the Chief Innovation Officer and a partner at Pierson Ferdinand, a law firm renowned for its partner-focused, office-free model and commitment to culture-driven success. With a career dedicated to building solutions for critical legal and business challenges, Christina brings expertise in strategy design, consulting, and the implementation of best practices. She leverages technology, outsourcing, and innovative approaches to simplify and standardize processes, drive revenue, achieve cost savings, and reduce risk for organizations. Her hands-on experience in leading high-growth legal operations and her passion for fostering collaborative, values-based environments make her exceptionally suited to share insights on law firm innovation, legal technology, and the future of legal practice in this episode.

Guest LinkedIn

Christina Wojcik | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• Pierson Ferdinand’s partner-focused, office-free model fosters a tight-knit, family-like culture where hiring for values and collaboration is prioritized over traditional law firm structures.
• The firm’s approach allows partners to bring on support staff as needed, minimizing overhead and maximizing flexibility to deliver for clients.
• Christina Wojcik emphasizes the importance of giving back to the legal community through mentorship, sharing her diverse career experiences to help others navigate transitions and add value in their roles.
• The Running Legal Like a Business Conference provides a unique, connected atmosphere for legal professionals to learn, network, and explore innovative ways to run legal operations more effectively.

Guest Information:

Jennifer McIver, Director of Legal Operations and Industry Insight at Wolters Kluwer. She is an attorney with a passion for connecting corporate legal departments and technology. She believes there is no better feeling than partnering with legal teams to realize the value technology brings to increasing efficiency and accuracy, reducing costs, and incorporating data and analytics into daily practices. When databases and workflows are optimized, chaotic and reactive processes turn into proactive informed decisions that transform how legal departments operate.

Guest LinkedIn:

Jennifer McIver | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

Data is Foundational

• Clean, standardized data is essential for effective e-billing, process automation, and leveraging AI. Without it, technology solutions will struggle to deliver meaningful results.

People, Process, Technology—and Data

• Success in legal operations requires more than just tech adoption. The right people, clear processes, and disciplined data management are equally important.

AI’s Role in E-Billing

• AI is already being used to improve invoice review, catch errors like block billing, and enhance data accuracy. However, AI is not a “magic button”—it depends on good underlying data and thoughtful implementation.

Standardization Challenges

• Efforts to standardize billing codes (like UTBMS and LEDES) have faced adoption hurdles. Customization and lack of enforcement create data inconsistencies that undermine analysis and automation.

Collaboration Is Key

• Both law firms and corporate legal departments benefit from transparent, standardized billing practices. Open communication and shared responsibility for data quality are crucial.

Keep It Simple

• Organizations should focus on collecting the data they truly need, rather than overwhelming themselves with unnecessary complexity. Simplicity aids accuracy and efficiency.
• Running Legal Like A Business Conference
• Running Legal Like a Business Conference provides a valuable platform for sharing experiences, learning from peers, and driving industry change—especially by welcoming new voices.

Guest LinkedIn

Sandy MacDonnell | LinkedIn

Podcast Takeaways

• Change Management Is Key: Successful legal tech adoption isn't just about great features—it's about understanding users' pain points and solving real problems. Listening and empathy are critical.
• Internal Champions Drive Adoption: Identifying and empowering champions within different legal teams is far more effective than top-down mandates. Champions become evangelists and help build trust in new tools.
• "Customer Zero" Advantage: DocuSign's legal ops team gets early access to new features, providing valuable feedback and helping shape product development before public release.
• Measuring Success Matters: Metrics such as time saved per contract review and reduction in manual tasks are essential for demonstrating value and building trust in new technologies, especially AI.
• AI Adoption Is a Journey: Building trust in AI tools requires transparency, iterative testing, and involving legal professionals in the development process. Not all teams or functions are ready for full AI adoption, and that's okay.
• Community Is Powerful: Conferences like Running Legal Like a Business foster lasting relationships and a supportive community. The value goes beyond sessions—it's about having a network to turn to for advice and shared learning.
• Start Small and Iterate: Legal ops professionals should focus on identifying problems, listening to stakeholders, and starting with manageable solutions. Building momentum through small wins leads to broader change.
• Knowledge Sharing Is a Responsibility: Attendees of industry conferences have an opportunity—and responsibility—to bring back insights and share them with their teams, amplifying the impact of collective learning.

Guest Information:

Tiffani Hamilton Huynh, Head of Legal Operations at DHL. Tiffani is a highly motivated, resourceful and results-oriented leader with demonstrated accomplishments in providing solutions with a key focus on customer satisfaction, business value, quality and long-term supportability. Ability to thrive in dynamic environments while remaining practical and flexible in meeting customer and enterprise needs.

Guest LinkedIn:

Tiffani Huynh | LinkedIn

Podcast Takeaways

• Legal Ops Evolution: Tiffani’s experience highlights how legal operations can grow alongside an organization, adapting to new business needs and leveraging cross-functional expertise, especially in logistics.
• Value-Based Billing: Moving away from hourly billing requires a fundamental shift in mindset. Success metrics, transparency with outside counsel, and a focus on outcomes (not just hours) are essential.
• Role of Data: Data is the backbone of persuasion and change. Internal, external, and benchmark data help legal teams make informed decisions, negotiate fair rates, and demonstrate value to stakeholders.
• AI’s Potential: While AI wasn’t a focal point in the session, Tiffani notes its potential to help define value by analyzing historical data and identifying trends across practice areas, countries, and attorneys.
• Collaboration & Trust: Building trust between legal ops and internal lawyers is crucial. Recommendations based on data are more readily accepted when relationships are strong and expertise is respected.
• Benchmarking for Change: Benchmarking rates internally and externally provides leverage for negotiations and ensures consistency and fairness in pricing models.
• Conference Value: The RLLB conference offers unique opportunities for networking, learning, and validation. Tiffani plans to share her learnings with her team and GC, driving continuous improvement.
• Giving Back: Tiffani emphasizes the importance of sharing knowledge gained at industry events, fostering a culture of learning and innovation within her organization.

Guest Information:

Steven Rippberger is the Director of Legal Operations at OpenText, with a focus on value-driven solutions, strategic alignment, and business change realizing corporate vision. Steven have over 10 years of experience including strategy development, financial management, business process redesign, software package selection, technology architecture, program/project management, change management and planning, design, and deployment of solutions to meet key business requirements.

Guest LinkedIn:

Steven Rippberger | LinkedIn

Podcast Takeaways:

Key Takeaways from the Episode:

• Transformation & Innovation in Legal Ops: Legal departments lag in tech adoption, but transformation is possible with purposeful change management and a willingness to challenge traditional practices.
• Change Management is Crucial: Success in legal operations requires understanding stakeholder motivations, building trust, and actively listening to lawyers’ concerns.
• Data-Driven Decision Making: Implementing dashboards and KPIs helps legal teams identify inefficiencies, prioritize high-value work, and drive continuous improvement.
• AI Adoption in Legal: AI tools, such as contract review and redlining, offer significant potential but require careful implementation, trust-building, and alignment with attorney workflows.
• Collaboration with IT: Partnership with IT is essential for evaluating, implementing, and scaling technology solutions across the enterprise.
• Leveraging In-House Technology: OpenText’s legal team prioritizes using their own software (“drink your own champagne”) before considering external solutions.
• Future of Legal Tech: The next wave involves harmonizing fragmented AI agents through a centralized orchestration layer, similar to the evolution of single sign-on for identity management.
• Value of Diverse Backgrounds: Non-legal backgrounds bring fresh perspectives and are an asset for driving innovation in legal operations.