BDO's Legal Tech Talk Podcast

Guest Notes

Jessica Vander Ploeg is the Vice President of Legal Operations at Belron, with a distinguished career leading legal operations initiatives. Her hands-on approach to legal technology, AI adoption, and operational strategy—combined with her role as a founding board member of legalops.com—makes her uniquely qualified to discuss the evolving landscape of legal operations and the strategic implementation of AI in legal departments.

Guest LinkedIn

Jessica Vander Ploeg | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. Legal operations professionals are evolving from traditional defenders of the company to strategic business enablers, partnering proactively with the business rather than reacting solely to legal risks.

2. The future of legal departments relies on building the right mix of talent—including data scientists and AI specialists—and leveraging automation and technology to free lawyers for substantive, high-value work.

3. Active listening is a critical human skill for legal operations success, enabling professionals to understand needs, build trust, and apply solutions across the legal department.

4. Successful legal operations require the ability to apply what is heard to multiple facets of the department, aligning actions with the organization’s vision, purpose, and values.

Guest Notes

Clinton Sanko, Chattanooga office managing shareholder and Baker Donelson Firm's eDiscovery and document review officer, is a seasoned litigation trial lawyer who focuses his practice on efficient, effective and expeditious management of eDiscovery and document review. He has substantial experience in a variety of matters, including the defense of a client in two large multidistrict antitrust class actions alleging wage and compensation fixing of thousands of employees and independent contractors arising out of alleged information exchanges, benchmarking and no poach agreements.

Guest LinkedIn

Clinton Sanko | Linkedin

Key Takeaways

1. Clinton Sanko highlights a significant blind spot in how law firms and corporate legal departments approach e-discovery, emphasizing the need for thoughtful integration of technology to drive efficiency and value for clients.

2. The distinction between keywords (often shared in discovery) and attorney prompts (considered core mental work product) is becoming increasingly important as generative AI tools are used in legal practice.

3. The legal profession must address new challenges in discovery protocols, particularly regarding whether AI-generated prompts used to identify responsive documents should be considered discoverable.

4. For new lawyers, engaging directly with AI tools—while respecting confidentiality—is essential for developing future-ready skills, including using AI as a career coach and benchmarking AI-generated work against respected legal professionals.

Guest Notes

Cynthia J. Cole is Chair of Baker McKenzie’s Global Commercial, Tech and Transactions Business Unit, a member of the Firm’s global Commercial, Data, IP and Trade (CDIT) practice group steering Committee and Co-chair of Baker Women California. A former CEO and General Counsel, just before joining the Firm, Cynthia was Deputy Department Chair of the Corporate Section in the California offices of Baker Botts where she built the technology transactions and data privacy practice. An intellectual property transactions attorney, Cynthia also has expertise in AI, digital transformation, data privacy, and cybersecurity strategy.

She advises clients across a wide range of industries including Technology, Media & Telecoms, Energy, Mining & Infrastructure, Healthcare & Life Sciences, and Industrials, Manufacturing & Transportation. Cynthia has deep experience in complex cross-border, IP, data-driven and digital transactions, creating bespoke agreements in novel technology fields. She acts as outside general counsel to a number of executive teams and boards of directors.

Guest LinkedIn

Cynthia Cole | Linkedin

Key Takeaways

• Cynthia Cole’s career path demonstrates the value of adaptability and strategic evolution in the legal profession, moving between roles in law firms, corporate leadership, and academia.
• She emphasizes the importance of flexibility and creativity when advising clients on legal technology, noting that not all solutions are one-size-fits-all.
• Cynthia highlights the critical role of human oversight in legal tech implementations, cautioning against the misconception that technology can fully replace human involvement.
• Building and maintaining strong relationships and human connections remain central to successful legal technology adoption and client service.

Guest Notes

Cari serves as Taft Law Firm’s Assistant General Counsel. In this role, she advises firm attorneys with respect to ethics compliance, risk prevention, and conflicts of interest. With over 15 years of legal experience in civil litigation, conflicts of interest, and professional responsibility. In addition, she assists in the review and negotiation of outside counsel guidelines, conflict waivers and engagement letters, and other items with ethical implications. In addition, she assists in providing ethical training and education within the firm to its attorneys and staff.

Cari is an Adjunct Professor at the IU Robert H. McKinney School where she teaches Professional Responsibility. She is also a former Assistant Clinical Professor of Business Law and Ethics at the Kelley School of Business. She is passionate about promoting ethical awareness, integrity, and professionalism in the legal and business fields and contributing to the advancement of knowledge and practice in these domains.

Cari is a frequent presenter and author on ethics and professionalism in the legal industry. She is a reoccurring author with the Res Gestae regarding the Ethics Curbstone and has been quoted in publications for her knowledge on ethical topics. Cari is also an avid speaker having given over 200 seminars on ethics and professionalism for various local and national platforms. Her primary area of research is regarding the ethics of AI and how it affects the legal and business community.

• Cari L. Sheehan | People | Taft Law

• [email protected]

• Linkedin

Key Takeaways

1. Dedicated Ethics Oversight:

• Cari Sheehan highlights the importance of having designated personnel or teams within law firms who are responsible for ethics and professional responsibility. This dedicated oversight ensures that attorneys consistently uphold ethical standards, have a clear resource for guidance on complex legal situations, and helps maintain the firm’s reputation and public trust.

2. Technology and Innovation:

• Taft Law Firm is committed to staying at the forefront of technological advancements by integrating innovative tools and solutions into their practice. Cari discusses how the firm encourages collaboration between younger, tech-savvy lawyers and more experienced attorneys. This cross-generational teamwork enables the firm to adopt new technologies that improve efficiency, streamline workflows, and deliver better client service.

3. Active Listening and Communication:

• The podcast underscores the value of active listening and direct, open communication in the legal profession. Cari advocates for picking up the phone and having real conversations to resolve conflicts and address issues. This approach often leads to faster, more effective resolutions and helps foster a collaborative and collegial work environment, compared to relying solely on email.

4. Ethical Use of AI:

• Cari shares her experiences with AI tools, such as note-taking devices, and discusses the ethical considerations involved in adopting these technologies. She emphasizes the need for law firms to use secure and compliant versions of AI to protect client confidentiality and ensure ethical standards are met. Careful evaluation of AI tools is necessary to balance innovation with the firm’s professional responsibilities.

5. Continuous Learning and Adaptation:

• Continuous education is essential for law firms to keep pace with technological changes and evolving client expectations. Cari organizes seminars and works with different departments to ensure attorneys are informed about new developments and equipped to handle emerging challenges. This ongoing commitment to learning and adaptation helps the firm remain competitive and responsive in a rapidly changing legal landscape

Guest Notes

Kate Barton, the Global CEO of Dentons, the world's largest law firm with a presence in over 80 countries, leads the firm's global strategy and operations with a focus on delivering high-quality service, retaining top talent, and business growth. In addition to her role at Dentons, she serves on the board of SharkNinja, a NYSE-listed company, and is involved with several not-for-profit organizations, including the Ireland Fund, the All Stars Project, and the Shanti Bhavan Children’s Project. She also contributes to advisory councils at Boston College Law and Boston University School of Management. Kate retired from EY in 2023, where she was Global Vice Chair of Tax, Law, and People Advisory Services, and a member of EY’s Global Executive Board, leading thousands of professionals across 150 countries in strategy, operations, and innovation, driving EY’s global tax practice to the top in brand and market share. Her educational background includes a B.S. from Boston University, a J.D. from Boston College Law School, and an LL.M. in Taxation from Boston University School of Law, along with executive programs at Kellogg and Harvard. She is NACD Director Certified and qualified as a financial expert under SEC, NYSE, and NASDAQ rules.

Kate Barton|LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. The Importance of Soft Skills in Legal Practice

• Kate Barton emphasizes that skills like empathy, emotional intelligence, and the ability to explain complex issues simply are crucial for lawyers. These skills are not just "nice to have" but essential for effectively navigating client relationships and complex situations.

2. Tech-Enabled Solutions for Global Clients

• Dentons is focusing on providing tech-enabled solutions to address complex legal issues, such as data privacy and AI regulations. This approach helps clients visualize the impact of laws on their operations and enhances the firm's ability to deliver innovative services.

3. Adapting to Increased Client Expectations Post-Pandemic

• Since the pandemic, client expectations for accessibility and responsiveness have risen. Dentons is working to ensure its lawyers can meet these demands while maintaining mental well-being and leveraging technology to stay connected and efficient.

4. Leveraging Global Reach for Competitive Advantage

• With a presence in more countries than any other law firm, Dentons uses its global reach to offer clients comprehensive solutions to cutting-edge issues. This extensive network is a significant advantage in navigating international legal challenges.

5. Continuous Learning and Staying Current

• Kate Barton highlights the importance of staying informed about global challenges and industry trends. She advocates for regular business reading and utilizing podcasts to keep up with developments, ensuring that Dentons remains a trusted advisor to its clients.

Guest Notes

Nicholas Sarokhanian is chair of Barnes & Thornburg's Artificial Intelligence Industry Group, advising clients on emerging AI legal and business challenges, including generative AI, LLMs, and RAG technology. He represents companies, which range from Fortune 500 to startups, in high-stakes, strategic and complex disputes involving technology, trade secrets, and competition, leveraging his strategic insight and litigation experience. With substantial courtroom experience, Nicholas has handled more than 15 trials and arbitrations and has secured favorable appellate rulings. His clients span AI, software, real estate, healthcare, and financial services. In addition to his legal practice, Nick is also committed to pro bono work and diversity initiatives.

Firm Bio

Nicholas Sarokhanian, Minneapolis Attorney | Barnes & Thornburg

Guest LinkedIn

Nicholas Sarokhanian | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. Systematic Thinking in Law: Nicholas Sarokhanian discusses his systematic approach to legal thinking, which helps him connect various legal concepts and enhances his ability to identify patterns and solve complex legal issues.

2. Generative AI in Legal Practice: The episode explores the transformative potential of generative AI in the legal field, highlighting how it can streamline processes, increase efficiency, and allow lawyers to focus on higher-value tasks.

3. Balancing Innovation and Ethics: Nicholas emphasizes the importance of maintaining ethical standards and professional judgment while integrating AI into legal practice, addressing concerns about confidentiality and the potential impact on the development of legal expertise.

4. AI as an Equalizer: The conversation touches on how generative AI can act as a great equalizer in the legal profession, enabling both junior and senior lawyers to access the same information and insights, thereby leveling the playing field.

5. Future of Legal Billing: The episode delves into the implications of AI on legal billing practices, discussing the potential shift towards value-based pricing as AI tools enhance the speed and efficiency of legal work.

Guest Notes

Daniel J. Solove is the Eugene L. and Barbara A. Bernard Professor of Intellectual Property and Technology Law at the George Washington University Law School. One of the world’s leading experts in privacy law, Solove is the author of more than 10 books and 100+ articles. He has published books with Oxford University Press, Harvard University Press, and Yale University Press.

Guest LinkedIn

Daniel J. Solove | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• The Need for Comprehensive Privacy Regulation: Professor Solove emphasizes the importance of establishing comprehensive privacy laws that can effectively regulate digital technologies, similar to how safety standards have been successfully implemented in industries like automobiles and food production.
• Digital Technology Exceptionalism: The episode highlights the challenge of regulating digital technologies due to their intangible nature, which makes them harder for consumers to understand and for lawmakers to regulate compared to physical goods.
• Industry Resistance and Long-term Benefits: Solove discusses the resistance from companies to privacy regulation, likening it to adolescent behavior. He argues that while regulation may seem burdensome in the short term, it ultimately benefits both consumers and industries by ensuring safety and trust.
• Solove's Vision for Privacy Regulation: Professor Solove shares his hope for a future where privacy regulation is both effective and supportive of technological innovation, aiming to change the conversation around privacy and ensure that technologies are privacy-protective without stifling innovation.

Guest Notes

Daniel J. Solove is the Eugene L. and Barbara A. Bernard Professor of Intellectual Property and Technology Law at the George Washington University Law School. One of the world’s leading experts in privacy law, Solove is the author of more than 10 books and 100+ articles. He has published books with Oxford University Press, Harvard University Press, and Yale University Press.

Guest LinkedIn

Daniel J. Solove | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• The Need for Comprehensive Privacy Regulation: Professor Solove emphasizes the importance of establishing comprehensive privacy laws that can effectively regulate digital technologies, similar to how safety standards have been successfully implemented in industries like automobiles and food production.
• Digital Technology Exceptionalism: The episode highlights the challenge of regulating digital technologies due to their intangible nature, which makes them harder for consumers to understand and for lawmakers to regulate compared to physical goods.
• Industry Resistance and Long-term Benefits: Solove discusses the resistance from companies to privacy regulation, likening it to adolescent behavior. He argues that while regulation may seem burdensome in the short term, it ultimately benefits both consumers and industries by ensuring safety and trust.
• Solove's Vision for Privacy Regulation: Professor Solove shares his hope for a future where privacy regulation is both effective and supportive of technological innovation, aiming to change the conversation around privacy and ensure that technologies are privacy-protective without stifling innovation.

Guest Notes

Mori Kabiri is the CEO of InfiniGlobe and the founder of Legal Ops KPIs. As an esteemed author and thought leader, Mori champions the integration of key performance indicators (KPIs) and strategic business alignment to revolutionize legal operations. He spearheads a data-driven approach to modernizing legal ops, drawing on over 25 years of extensive experience in the legal industry.

LinkedIn

Mori Kabiri | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

• Strategic Alignment is Crucial: Mori Kabiri emphasizes the importance of aligning legal operations with the company's vision and mission. This strategic alignment ensures that legal departments function as strategic business units, contributing effectively to the organization's overall goals.
• Effective Use of KPIs: The discussion highlights the role of Key Performance Indicators (KPIs) in transforming legal operations. By defining and measuring the right KPIs, legal departments can drive data-driven decision-making and operational excellence, ensuring they meet strategic objectives.
• Data Quality and AI Integration: Data quality is a significant factor in the success of legal operations. Mori discusses how AI tools can enhance data quality and provide deeper insights, helping legal teams make informed decisions and improve their processes.
• Continuous Improvement and Adaptation: The episode underscores the need for legal departments to continuously adapt their metrics and strategies. By retiring outdated KPIs and embracing new technologies, legal teams can remain competitive and responsive to changing business needs.

Guest Notes

Laura Dieudonné is the Legal Operations and Administration Director at Delta Air Lines, Inc. (“Delta”). Since joining Delta’s Law Department in 2015, Laura has focused on enhancing the department’s productivity through technology, including by helping to implement the first document management system, introducing a redlining tool and KPI reporting system for Delta’s attorneys and legal professional staff, and supporting automation efforts for responding to third-party subpoenas. Among her many responsibilities, Laura manages the legal operations and administrative teams, oversees the monthly KPI reporting process and provides critical support in budgeting, accruals and financial reporting for the department. She currently serves as a chairperson on Delta’s Law Department’s Operations and Technology Committee. Laura also serves as Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC) Board of Directors and CLOC’s DEIB Council Chair.

Guest LinkedIn

Laura Dieudonne, B.S. Law and Policy-PreLaw, A.A.S. HRM | LinkedIn

Key Takeaways

1. Effective Technology Implementation:

• Successful implementation of new technologies in legal operations requires understanding team pain points and securing necessary approvals. Engaging with team members to identify inefficiencies can lead to the adoption of tools like document management systems and KPI reporting systems, which enhance productivity and collaboration.

2. KPI System for Resource Management:

• The development of a KPI system at Delta has been instrumental in tracking the activities of different practice areas. This system helps in making informed decisions about cross-training, resource allocation, and hiring, thereby improving operational efficiency.

3. Work-Life Balance and Commitment:

• Delta's legal team emphasizes a strong work ethic and commitment, encouraging a balance between professional responsibilities and personal life. This approach ensures that team members remain motivated and passionate about their work.

4. Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives:

• Delta and CLOC are committed to fostering an inclusive environment through various DEIB initiatives. These efforts include forming community groups for diverse employee segments, ensuring everyone feels valued and heard.

5. Knowledge Sharing and Networking:

• Attending conferences like CLOC provides opportunities for knowledge sharing and networking. Delta's legal ops team actively participates in these events to gather insights and share learnings with the broader organization, promoting continuous improvement and collaboration.