Chris Vannini and David Ubben are joined by officiating coordinator Mike Defee, who reveals what it's really like to be a referee, what he wishes fans understood, and his reaction to the "Beef Ref" nickname. The guys also discuss news around the Pac-12, Sacramento State, Thomas Castellanos' trash talk and a lawsuit to watch. 

Chris' story in The Athletic on the state of officiating

0:00 Intro and dogs
3:45 Pac-12, Sac State, Castellanos, key lawsuit news
18:30 Mike Defee joins the show
23:55 Why refs have to set the tone with players
27:12 The hardest plays to officiate
30:13 Dealing with accusations of bias from fans
34:25 A typical game week for an official
40:39 Should officials talk to media after games, and why holding isn't always called
45:07 What it feels like to get a call wrong
46:23 Is there too much replay review?
50:30 Will CFB move to coach challenges?
52:19 The "Beef Ref" nickname and that national championship game fame 
55:24 His max bench press and why he stopped
57:02 The time Mark Richt got really mad at him
1:01:08 Handling abuse from coaches and fans
1:02:23 Why more people need to become officials
1:04:55 Thoughts on the interview
1:09:25 Remember Some Guys

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