Before You Quit

 I want to talk today about the gospel and the right kind of anger. Much of this comes from my own personal reflection on how we are to respond when so much seems so wrong around us.  Is it possible to act in love, to respond in love, motivated and driven by the gospel and still be angry by what we see around us? I hear often that as believers we should respond with understanding, but where is this line drawn when the gospel causes us to hate the evil around us. Does being loving mean we put up with wrong, or is this a time when a hard reaction is necessary? It’s fascinating to look at scripture and realize that we are called to hate evil and to speak strongly to evil doers. I hope this conversation I am going to have with two friends, Pastor Eric and Pastor Dan will awaken in us a biblical response that leaves room for the right kind of anger. 

Eric Anderson, is founding pastor of Lifespring Church, Crosby MN, (www.visitlifespring.com) where he has served for 11 years, previously he served as youth pastors for 7 years in the Evangelical Free Church.  He is husband to Miriam, father to 9 children.  He also is co-organizer of the Common Slaves Fellowship (www.commonslaves.com), a network of Reformed and Reforming churches and pastors in North East Minnesota.  Additionally, he hosts a Zoom meetings podcast called “a Place for Truth”, geared at laymen,  which gathers together experienced Reformed pastors and professors to discuss cultural topics. 

Daniel Samms trains house church leaders as planting pastor for Restoration House Church Network (www.restorationhcn.org) and equips scholars as a theology professor for Liberty University.  He also writes curriculum and teaches for Underground Seminary (www.undergroundseminary.net), a low-cost, subscription-based theological training system for people who want to be grounded doctrinally.  He loves his wife and kids, likes to build guns and cigar box guitars, and does not suffer heretics.  

A Great Source mentioned by Pastor Eric: A Catechism for Boys and Girls, by Errol Hulse

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With so much changing in our church, as we seek to reach each other and reach culture around us what we want to talk about today is the role of biblical education in our church life. My encouragement to you as a pastor and church leader, is as you make changes, as you adjust, as you make room for growth and seek to reach better and serve better, don’t diminish your commitment to biblical education. I am excited to talk my good friend, Alan Wilson who speaks out of vast experience in helping churches remain strong in their commitment to christian or Biblical education. 

Alan Wilson, the U.S. Field Coordinator for Regular Baptist Press, has served Baptist churches in Florida, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and has ministered as a deacon, Sunday School teacher, youth pastor, associate pastor, and senior pastor. Currently Alan travels the United States, speaking and leading workshops in major conferences and in churches across the country.

Order STRONG CHURCH AT RBP BY CLICKING ON BOOK

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I recorded this podcast in February, just before COVID. Have a good laugh at my reference to the primaries in Maine. Seems like years ago, doesn’t it? I interview pastor Steve about his involvement with IPM (Intentional Pastoral Interim) and how best to help troubled churches. We don’t just talk about the role of the interim pastor, but also what is going in a church that might require intentional help from the outside. It’s a great conversation, and one that is just as relevant now, maybe more, than when everything seemed more normal.

Rev. Steve Kerhoulas (MA in Pastoral Counseling)
In 1970 the Holy Spirit drew Steve to the cross, and he became a Christian. After finishing college at Western Carolina University he was accepted into a one year program through New York Theological Seminary. That year was a turning point in his life. Upon its completion he began a journey that would lead him to be a group home parent with Youth For Christ, then off to Asbury Theological Seminary, and then to five churches as the senior pastor. He is married to Candi and has four grown children. Steve and Candi live in Sky Valley GA. Steve is also an active member of IMP. Check out their website here.

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I have a question. Maybe two? What is happening to the church during COVID? What will happen to the church? We are hearing a lot about what COVID is doing to the church and to believers. (I A study done by The Barna Group suggests that because of this reason one in five churches will close post COVID (See source here.) Barna also anticipates that one in three Christians will likely stop attending church or already have. (See source here).  It comes as no surprise then that according to Thom Rainer a significant number of pastors plan to quit post COVID. I increasingly see friends not going back to church. Why? One theory is, it’s working for them. They can maintain a level of spiritual vibrancy, They aren’t messing up. It’s working just fine. I hope from my conversation today with Eddie Cole that this podcast doesn’t just explain why things are the way they are in church, but that this would also bring us back to the value of church. To why it matters and why it’s time to make church matter again.

Since 2019, Eddie Cole has served as the executive vice president of national ministries with the Evangelical Free Church of America. Prior to his work with the national office, Eddie spent 24 years in vocational ministry, serving first as a local church pastor and then as district superintendent of the Eastern District. Eddie and his wife, Jessica, love to support pastors and leaders as we pursue our mission to glorify God by multiplying transformational churches among all people.

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Today is a hard topic but a necessary one. I want to talk about something the church needs to be more aware of than I think we are and that is the topic of opioid addiction. You will also find later in the podcast that this is a very personal subject for me as I choose this podcast to share publicly about my own struggle some years ago with dependance on prescription pain medication. I love the conversation I had with Kirk Driscoll on how church can be a healing community for those who struggle with addiction. It is very likely that you have a number in your congregation who struggle with drug addiction, particularly opioid addiction. I hope this podcast helps you to better reach those who live in isolation of addiction but also that it would offer courage to you, if you are in the midst of this lonely struggle yourself. I know Kirk will encourage you as he shares his own struggle with addiction and the insight he has gleamed that has helped many over come this tragic reality. My guest today is Kirk Driscoll who lives in Atlanta, GA with his family, and leads the Warrior Vision Church whose mission is to end addiction, everywhere. On their mission page it says this: The statistics related to drug overdoses on opiates alone is staggering. It is estimated that in 2017 nearly 49,000 people died from overdose caused by opiates alone and that number is rising. As an American you are more likely to die from an overdose than a car crash, or gun violence.The treatment of this affliction is multifaceted, we believe it should not bankrupt a person or family, and that a safe sober environment should be available to anyone who wants to recover. This is a needed conversation and I am so glad I connected with Kirk Driskell to talk about. Let’s join in that conversation right now. 

To contact Kirk go here

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In this podcast I muse over the state of the gospel, post-Covid. I also encourage the pastor to commit to gospel-centered, Biblically-solid expository preaching. My suggestion is; the church that will remain strong are those who are committed to the gospel. I also look at some of the pressures threatening the church, distracting her from her mission, and the call to remain true to the sufficiency and authority of scripture. While I speak somewhat strongly toward some drifting even in my own denomination, some of the hyperbole I use is meant to capture our attention with hope that we will all be challenged by returning to the gospel in our preaching.

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It’s Interesting how this podcast turned out. I asked around for someone I could interview on the subject of addiction, mainly the issue of addictions to opioids and how the church should understand it and respond and so someone was recommended to me. His name is Mark Danzey. I sat down with Mark and as we began this conversation the addiction we ended up mostly talking about was on pornography. And I agree. This is a needed conversation and one that few are willing to talk about. I sat down with a young man some time ago who said something like this. It’s weird to me that this is probably the biggest struggles guys face, but probably the one struggle no one talks about. So we are talking about it today, with Pastor Mark Danzey. Before we go to the interview let me in introduce Mark.

Mark has been providing pastoral counseling for the last 25 years. Passionate about his work, Mark has spent the last 10 years focused on working with couples in various scenarios from premarital counseling to crisis counseling. Mark is eager to help people looking to make positive changes in their life through personal relationship coaching, career coaching and executive coaching. Additionally, as a Certified Civil, Domestic and Divorce mediator, Mark helps to mediate difficult situations toward a path of peaceful and amicable resolution. 

Mark holds a M.A. in Pastoral Ministries, ordination in the United Methodist Church, as well as certifications with the International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals, the International Coaching Federation and the State of Georgia Office of Alternative Dispute Resolution.  

Mark and his wife Tammy, have been married for 16 years and have four grown children and one amazing grandson! 

Check out the websites that highlight Mark’s different ministry offerings:

Narrowgateefl.com

wisepathmlc.com

wisepathcoach.com

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Brett Schultz grew up in a pastor’s home and he’s actually a normal kid.

Pastors try as best they can to assure their children do not grow up with the common stigmas that come with being a PK (Pastor’s Kid). The pressure to represent the family well can be a heavy burden for any child of a ministry parent. While most pastors and missionaries do a great job protecting their children from these burdens, there are some things that are beyond their control. Brett is my son, and he’s often told me that we did well allowing him to be a normal kid, but there were somethings we could not protect him from.

I sat down with Brett and talked about what it was like to struggle through cancer, and how this, along with the loss of his older brother to cancer, and his mothers struggle to recover from brain cancer, shaped an indelible faith that could only have been forged in the fires of suffering. He’ll tell you he would not be who is today, doing what he’s doing, had it not been for these trials. Brett works as writer and producer for Student Life Ministries and lives in Birmingham, Alabama.

Brett is also founder of an Improv Team called The 2’nd Funniest Guys You’ve Ever Met. If you are interested in inviting Brett and his team to your church, you can go his website here.   The ‘2nd Funniest Guys’ provide quick-witted, outrageous improv comedy. Each show, based off audience members’ personal stories and suggestions, will bring laughter and energy, leading to a memorable experience for your group. Whether it be for your student gathering, DNOW, or Senior Sunday School Ice Cream Social these guys are sure to bring the excitement and hilarity your group has been waiting for. 

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What exactly is being asked of us? Why should I be responsible for the sins of my ancestors? I’m not racist, but why am I made to feel like I am? What do you mean, ‘unless I am anti racist, then I am racist? It feels you’re asking for penance, not repentance? Can there really be justice in a world full of rebellion and hatred toward God? How does the gospel speak to race and social justice?

I am sitting down today with my friend Dr and Pastor Reginald Screen to discuss these questions and more. You will find today’s podcast to be both honest and at times raw. I shared with Reggie how many of us have a lot of question even at time wondering what is being asked of us from the black community and what will it take from the white evangelical church for there to be a true sense of healing.

Reginald S. Screen is an Air Force Veteran. He has been in ministry for twenty-nine years (main- ly involved in church planting, church redevelopment, discipleship, coaching, and leadership de- velopment). He currently serves as an Assistant District Superintendent focusing on Church Min- istry Development for the South Atlantic District (now Alliance South). Additionally, Reginald served as the Regional Church Planting Coordinator for the Southeastern Region (11 States and Puerto Rico) for the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Reginald is also the founder and director of a nonprofit called 3L Cultural Intelligence Group, LLC. He holds degrees in Accounting, Bibli- cal Studies, Organizational Development (with an emphasis on coaching and leadership devel- opment), Christian Leadership, and Apologetics and Theology. Reginald resides in metro Atlanta. 

Check out 3L Cultural Intelligence here

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In today’s conversation with Rev. Mark Barnard and Dr. Kenneth Quick we are going to talk about dancing in church. Okay, now I know I have your attention. But no, not that kind of dancing. We will be discussing the dance of gifts in the church. Here’s what the conversation will be about:
Much has been written on how God speaks to us as individuals, but the bookshelves are bare when it comes to helping leaders know how God speaks to and guides a ministry. The Dance of the Gifts seeks to help fill that gap. It enables your leadership to discern God’s will for your ministry in a thoroughly biblical manner by developing a better understanding of how spiritual gifts work together. Discussion questions are provided at the end of each chapter, making The Dance of the Gifts a helpful resource for training ministry leaders. (Taken from back cover of the book, THE DANCE OF THE GIFTS)

DR. KENNETH QUICK

Dr. Kenneth Quick is Professor Emeritus of Practical Theology at Capital Seminary and Graduate School in Greenbelt, Maryland, an arm of Lancaster Bible College. Previously, Ken was a Senior Pastor for 23 years. He earned Doctor of Ministry degrees in both Communication and in Marriage and Family Therapy. Ken has authored, Healing the Heart of Your Church: How Church Leaders Can Facilitate Corporate Healing, Body Aches: The Experience of and Response to God’s Discipline of your Church; Living for the Kingdom: Eternal Significance as a Motivation for Christian Living; and co-authored The Eighth Letter: Jesus Still Speaks. Ken serves as Director of Consulting for Blessing Point Ministries. He and his wife, Diane, reside in Columbia, Maryland. Ken can be reached at [email protected] or 443.538.3074

REV. MARK BARNARD

Mark serves as president of Blessing Point Ministries Inc.  He holds a BA in Bible from Nyack College and an MA in Pastoral Studies from the International School of Theology. He has served in various pastoral and teaching capacities across a spectrum of evangelical denominations. Mark authored The Path of Revival: Restoring Our Nation One Church at a Time, Diagnosing the Heart of Your Church: How Church Leaders Can Assess Systemic Corporate Dysfunction, Sustaining the Heart of Your Church: Twenty Exercises to Help Church Leaders Over come Lingering Corporate Dysfunction and Joseph Unrobed: Holding on to Your Dreams When Life Seems Like a Nightmare. He coauthored The Eighth Letter: Jesus Still Speaks . Mark is the father of four and the grandfather of two. He and his wife, Jeannie, reside in Peachtree City, GA. Mark can be reached at [email protected] or 678.201.7033

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