Behind the Ticker

David Auerbach, CIO of Hoya Capital, spent over a decade trading REITs at Green Street Advisors in Dallas before getting a front-row seat to the ETF industry's explosive growth at Esposito Securities. Now he runs two REIT-focused ETFs — HOMZ and RIET — managing over $135 million. In this episode, David breaks down the two biggest misconceptions advisors have about REITs: that they're all high yield and that they're all interest rate sensitive. He makes the case that most passive REIT ETFs are far more concentrated than people realize, with just a handful of large-cap names yielding 2–3% dominating the top holdings.

David explains how RIET takes the opposite approach — overweighting small caps, mid caps, mortgage REITs, and REIT preferred stocks to deliver a 10%+ annualized monthly dividend across roughly 100 holdings with no single position above 1.5%. We also dig into the housing supply shortage driving the HOMZ thesis, why 4% on the 10-year Treasury is the magic number for REIT investors, and the current M&A wave that's seen 17 REITs merge or pursue strategic alternatives in just the past four months. David shares why private equity is scooping up REIT platforms trading below net asset value, how advisors should think about using HOMZ and RIET as complements to traditional exposure like VNQ, and why boring is exactly what you want from this corner of your portfolio.

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Raymond Micaletti built the MOOD ETF around a single idea: institutions consistently outperform retail traders, and you can measure the difference. After watching a relative sentiment indicator correctly call two major market bottoms while all his other signals failed, he stopped ignoring it and started building.

In this episode, Ray breaks down how he uses Commitments of Traders data and sentiment surveys to construct signals across equities, bonds, commodities, and currencies. We dig into the structural advantages institutions have over retail, why his approach avoids the whipsaw problem that kills most tactical strategies, and where it can still get you in trouble. He also makes a strong case for pairing relative sentiment with trend following—two strategies that naturally offset each other's weaknesses.

Website: www.relativesentiment.com ETF site: relativesentimentetfs.com Twitter: @relsenttech

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Sam Rahman and John McNamara joined Brad to discuss the launch and philosophy behind the HGRO ETF. Hedgeye, originally built on delivering institutional-quality macroeconomic research to a broader audience, has now extended into the asset management space with active ETF offerings.

Sam, who previously managed public equity investments for the Fidelity family office, explained how HGRO fills a gap in the ETF landscape: it offers a concentrated, actively managed large-cap growth portfolio that emphasizes risk-adjusted returns. He emphasized that most large-cap growth ETFs are either over-diversified and benchmark-hugging or overly concentrated and thematic, leaving little in between. HGRO aims to provide thoughtful portfolio construction and institutional-quality research to everyday investors.

The strategy focuses on three core themes: deep moat compounders, innovators and disruptors, and special situations. Sam described the selection process as conviction-driven but bounded by disciplined portfolio risk constraints, with max 3% active weights on both stock and sector levels. Sell decisions are typically driven by fundamental deterioration or technical breakdowns.

John shared that HGRO is intended to be a core large-cap equity position in diversified portfolios and is gaining early traction among large RIAs. He also confirmed that Hedgeye has more ETF launches in the pipeline and plans to build on its highly engaged research community and media platform to drive continued growth.

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In this episode of Behind the Ticker, Brad Roth speaks with Seth Cogswell, Portfolio Manager at Running Oak Capital, about the firm’s flagship ETF—RUNN, the Running Oak Efficient Growth ETF. With a background that spans fundamental equity research and derivatives trading, Cogswell shares his journey to Running Oak and how the firm’s roots in separately managed accounts (SMAs) laid the foundation for its ETF strategy. Originally launched in 2009 for advisors seeking a smoother ride through market cycles, the strategy behind RUNN has delivered strong results with an emphasis on downside protection.

Cogswell breaks down how RUNN combines a core equity portfolio of 30–50 high-conviction U.S. large-cap stocks with a tactical allocation to fixed income and cash equivalents. What sets RUNN apart is its ability to dynamically shift its allocation between risk-on and risk-off environments. The fund can reduce equity exposure as low as 30% or raise it up to 90%, based on a rules-based framework that evaluates macro indicators, valuation metrics, and market trends. This allows the fund to dial down risk during market stress and re-enter more aggressively during recovery phases.

The equity sleeve of the portfolio focuses on quality companies with strong free cash flow and sustainable growth—avoiding overvalued, speculative names. Meanwhile, the fixed income sleeve remains flexible, emphasizing high credit quality and shorter durations when risk is elevated. Cogswell notes that RUNN is actively managed daily, with oversight to ensure discipline in both the equity and fixed income allocations. The team also maintains a consistent philosophy that prioritizes risk-adjusted returns and long-term capital appreciation rather than chasing short-term performance.

Designed for use as a core equity holding or a risk-managed growth strategy, RUNN offers advisors and investors an efficient, transparent vehicle to navigate unpredictable markets. With a track record rooted in the firm’s SMA history and now offered in a more tax-efficient ETF format, the fund aims to deliver smoother performance without sacrificing long-term upside. 

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In this episode, Brad sits down with Eric Lutton, CIO of Sound Income Strategies, to discuss the firm’s actively managed ETF: FXED, and its unique approach to fixed income investing.

Eric shares his professional journey from trading in the pits of Chicago to managing institutional assets and ultimately building out Sound Income’s fixed income platform. The firm has grown from managing $30M with one advisor to nearly $4B with over 100 advisors, all through organic growth. At the core of their approach is a clear focus on income generation—particularly for retirees and conservative investors looking to preserve capital and generate steady cash flow.

Eric explains that FXED was created to solve two problems: making the firm’s core-plus fixed income strategy available to smaller accounts and addressing the lack of fixed income ETFs that combine traditional bonds with higher-yielding alternatives like BDCs, REITs, preferreds, and non-core bond ETFs.

He outlines how the portfolio targets around 70-75% fixed coupon instruments and layers in non-traditional income-generating securities—especially those with lower correlation to investment grade bonds—to deliver better risk-adjusted returns than broad benchmarks like the Agg. He discusses their bottom-up selection process, focus on management quality in BDCs and REITs, and commitment to avoiding names with poor underwriting or operational risks.

FXED is actively managed to allow dynamic rebalancing between investment-grade and high-yield allocations depending on market conditions. Eric makes the case that active management in fixed income still has an edge—unlike equities, where alpha is increasingly hard to find. The fund aims to outperform by overweighting stronger names and avoiding the losers—something passive indexes can’t do.

He emphasizes that FXED is especially useful for retirees or near-retirees who need reliable income and want to avoid relying too heavily on equities for yield. With a target yield in the upper 6% range, the fund allows for reduced capital commitment to fixed income, freeing up room for growth investments or risk-free cash buffers elsewhere in the portfolio.

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In this episode of Behind the Ticker, Brad Roth interviews Ryan Thomes, Co-Portfolio Manager at Hotchkis & Wiley, to discuss the launch and strategy behind the firm’s newest ETF—HWSM, the Hotchkis & Wiley SMID Cap Diversified Value ETF. Ryan shares his career journey from investment consulting to portfolio management, explaining how his early due diligence work led him to join the very firm he once evaluated. Over the past 17 years at Hotchkis & Wiley, Ryan has been deeply involved in refining the firm’s value-based equity strategies and co-manages both the small-cap and SMID strategies.

The conversation centers on the HWSM ETF, which launched in early 2024 and represents a natural extension of Hotchkis & Wiley’s long-standing small-cap value process. Although the ETF is new, the underlying investment methodology dates back over 20 years. Ryan breaks down the firm’s three-step process: proprietary quantitative modeling, human analyst review, and thoughtful portfolio construction. Unlike traditional quant screens, Hotchkis & Wiley’s models attempt to emulate how a human analyst would value companies based on normalized mid-cycle earnings rather than current market conditions. This combination of rigorous modeling and fundamental judgment allows them to focus on out-of-favor, under-followed stocks with long-term value potential.

HWSM typically holds between 150–200 names, balancing diversification with high active share, and utilizes a tiered weighting system that ties directly to fundamental risk ratings. Analysts assess companies across three pillars—business quality, balance sheet strength, and corporate governance—and these scores directly impact the weightings in the portfolio. The fund is rebalanced biannually with monthly adjustments as needed, helping maintain both conviction and efficiency.

Ryan explains that SMID caps—especially value names—are historically underappreciated and undervalued compared to large-cap growth, making them especially compelling today. Despite large-cap tech’s dominance over the past decade, he sees potential mean reversion in valuations that could favor smaller, overlooked companies. HWSM is positioned as either a core equity holding or a complement to growth-oriented SMID allocations, offering access to Hotchkis & Wiley’s institutional-quality research through a tax-efficient ETF vehicle. 

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In this episode of Behind the Ticker, host Brad Roth speaks with Kirk McDonald, Portfolio Manager at Argent Capital Management, about his unique path from Air Force pilot to managing the Argent MidCap ETF (ticker: AMID). McDonald shares how his firm’s mission to deliver both strong investment performance and top-tier client service inspired their move into the ETF space. With a deep-rooted philosophy focused on “enduring businesses,” Argent seeks companies with consistent cash flow growth, durable competitive advantages, and strong capital allocation by management.

Kirk dives into the construction of AMID, which holds a concentrated portfolio of 40–50 midcap names with low turnover—around 20% annually. What differentiates Argent’s approach is the integration of both quantitative modeling and fundamental research, a methodology McDonald calls “quantamental.” This framework is built on 25 fundamental factors that guide stock selection, continually refined to ensure alignment with their long-term investing philosophy. Kirk shares a memorable analogy comparing portfolio candidates to pigs at a trough—emphasizing the constant drive to prioritize younger, hungrier contenders that can generate future outperformance.

McDonald also breaks down key portfolio holdings, including Copart and Fortinet, and explains how AMID performs across different market cycles. While the strategy may lag during market regime shifts, it tends to outperform once trends stabilize. He stresses the importance of risk management, drawing from his aviation background to describe a systematic process embedded throughout the stock selection lifecycle.

Finally, McDonald explains how AMID fits into broader client portfolios, describing midcap stocks as a “forgotten” asset class underrepresented in most investor allocations despite historically delivering strong returns. He also previews Argent’s growing ETF lineup, which now includes large cap and small cap offerings and will eventually expand to cover SMID and high-yield strategies.

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In this episode of Behind the Ticker, Brad Roth sits down with Rob Thummel, Senior Portfolio Manager at Tortoise Capital Advisors, to dive into the firm’s active ETF, the Tortoise Essential Energy Fund (Ticker: TPZ). Rob shares his decades-long journey in the energy sector—from working in gas stations and oilfields as a teenager to helping lead one of the most focused energy investment firms in the country. Tortoise Capital is devoted entirely to energy, aiming to deliver superior risk-adjusted returns by investing across the full spectrum of the sector, including infrastructure, utilities, and renewables—not just traditional oil and gas producers.

TPZ, which recently transitioned from a closed-end fund to an active ETF, offers investors a dynamic approach to the evolving energy landscape. Rob explains how the fund is positioned to capture opportunities stemming from electrification and increased U.S. energy exports, with particular focus on natural gas and liquid infrastructure. He emphasizes that energy is no longer just about oil—natural gas and electricity are central to powering data centers and AI advancements, and TPZ is designed to align with that megatrend.

The portfolio maintains an active share of 86%, reflecting its substantial divergence from traditional benchmarks like the S&P Energy Index or ETFs like XLE. TPZ typically holds 80-90% in equities and 10-20% in fixed income, with additional option overlays to generate income and reduce volatility. Rob describes the fund’s hybrid approach—combining top-down macro analysis with bottom-up fundamental research—to find undervalued names with strong cash flows and management quality.

With a current dividend yield of about 5% and one-year performance exceeding 40%, TPZ has outpaced many passive energy benchmarks by leaning into secular shifts and tactically avoiding cyclical pitfalls. Rob positions TPZ as a core energy allocation for diversified portfolios, not just for total return potential, but for its robust income stream and long-term exposure to the energy-AI convergence. 

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In a recent episode of Behind the Ticker, Bob Elliott, co-founder and Chief Investment Officer of Unlimited, discussed the firm’s mission to democratize hedge fund strategies through innovative ETF structures. Drawing on his experience managing strategies at Bridgewater Associates and running a $125 million venture capital fund, Elliott launched Unlimited to address what he sees as fundamental inefficiencies in traditional hedge funds—high fees, limited access, and tax-inefficient vehicles. Unlimited’s approach uses proprietary technology to replicate hedge fund strategies at lower costs, inside liquid, tax-efficient ETFs.

The firm’s latest offering, the Unlimited HFGM ETF (ticker: HFGM), seeks to replicate the returns of global macro hedge funds, offering a 2x exposure to the strategy at just 95 basis points. Elliott explained that global macro is one of the most attractive and diversifying hedge fund styles due to its flexibility across asset classes—currencies, commodities, rates, equities—and its historically low correlation to traditional 60/40 portfolios. By leveraging a machine learning-driven process, HFGM infers the positioning of roughly 500 macro hedge fund managers in near real-time, using public market data and return streams to replicate their exposures.

Elliott emphasized that HFGM is fully systematic, with daily updates to inferred manager positioning and weekly average rebalancing. The ETF primarily uses futures contracts for efficiency, allowing both long and short exposure across global macro markets while benefiting from tax-friendly ETF structuring. Elliott stressed that the firm avoids “black box” opacity by grounding its machine learning in intuitive, transparent modeling—essentially scaling the same logic any investor might use to reverse-engineer a manager’s trades, but with far greater accuracy and breadth.

He positioned HFGM and Unlimited’s broader ETF suite as part of a shift in portfolio construction—from the old 60/40 model to a more modern 50/30/20 framework, where 20% is allocated to alternatives, including both liquid and illiquid strategies. HFGM, with its manager-diversified exposure, ease of execution, and lack of paperwork or K-1s, offers a compelling way for advisors and institutions to gain hedge fund-like exposure without the drawbacks of traditional LP structures.

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In a recent episode of Behind the Ticker, Brad Neuman, Director of Market Strategy and Portfolio Manager at Alger, joined the show to discuss the firm’s rich history in growth investing and the launch of their latest ETF: Alger Russell Innovation ETF (ticker: INVN). Neuman, who has a 25-year investment background spanning bottom-up and top-down roles on both the buy and sell sides, explained how Alger’s philosophy of “positive dynamic change”—a principle rooted in identifying growth opportunities amid market disruption—has remained consistent since the firm’s founding in 1964.

Neuman described Alger’s long-standing emphasis on change as the foundation for identifying outperforming businesses. This philosophy is implemented through deep, fundamental research conducted by a seasoned analyst team that conducts proprietary field work—speaking directly with customers, competitors, and suppliers. While most of Alger’s strategies have been actively managed and bottom-up, INVN marks a shift toward a more systematic, top-down process designed to isolate innovation as an investable factor.

The INVN ETF seeks to directly invest in innovation by identifying companies with strong R&D investment that is underappreciated by the market. Starting with the Russell 1000, Alger removes the bottom third of companies ranked by free cash flow margin to avoid early-stage or inefficient businesses. From the remaining universe, they select the top 50 companies based on R&D-to-enterprise value. The result is an equally weighted portfolio reconstituted quarterly to maintain exposure to what Neuman calls “HIPP” stocks—Highly Innovative, but Prudently Priced. This approach avoids overlap with typical growth benchmarks and excludes megacap names like Apple, whose R&D may be large in absolute terms but not relative to their vast market caps.

Neuman positioned INVN as a mid-cap core exposure that can serve as a replacement for traditional passive or active mid-cap strategies, while solving for issues like overconcentration in large-cap tech and inflated market valuations. With low turnover, high active share, and a valuation profile significantly below traditional growth indices, INVN provides a unique, quant-driven solution for investors looking to allocate directly to innovation. 

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Episode notes and the full archive: thorft.com/podcast
Daily market note, The Signal: thesignal.thorft.com