Marolyn has been on the podcast once before in an episode we recorded about the show From the 4410 to the 4412 which Marolyn made with Helen Lehndorf and Charlie Pearson last year. In this episode we touch briefly on that show.

I loved recording this conversation because it made me think a lot about the joy of process.

I also loved the web-series Marolyn brought as a subject for our chat. Hudson Valley Ballers: Lovers is very funny and you can watch the rest of the series on YouTube as well.

Marolyn is currently making an incredible podcast called cyanutopia which is a podcast about cyanotype. I am so interested in cyanotype as an form and I think even if you weren’t, Marolyn’s podcast is such an amazing opportunity to listen to artists talk about their process and work.

CW: This podcast contains discussion of Gender-Based violence.

Rijula Das’ award-winning novel Small Deaths is an amazing book. Set in Shonagachhi and orbiting the violent murder of a sex worker it is one of the most compelling and felt reading experiences I have had this year. It is astounding.

I was so grateful that Rijula took time to talk to me. Rijula was kind enough to bring the following cartoon to our conversation.

We began our discussion talking about seagulls and monkeys and using the way this joke skews a well-known narrative we talked about ways to re-write or challenge the dominant stories in our cultures about sex work. Rijula also talks about the pragmatics of writing the book.

In this episode Rijula and I talk a couple of times about the 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation

The launch of Verb Readers & Writers Festival 2022 programme, and the release of Festival Programmer, Rijula Das’ debut novel Small Deaths takes place on Tuesday 13 September, 5:30pm for a 6pm. All warmly welcome. Please RSVP by Monday 12 September to [email protected] 

As this arrives in your email Dominic Hoey’s new novel Poor People With Money will have just been launched at Soap in Auckland.

A couple of weeks ago, Dominic and I got together over Zoom. Dominic told me a funny story. This story was a great prompt to talk about story structure, self-deprecating humour and even the economics of writing fiction. I’m really interested in money and art and it was great to talk to Dominic about how these work together.

One of the best places to stay up to date with Dominic’s readings, tours, books and courses is at his Instagram

Here’s an Instagram post of Dominic reading the first chapter of Poor People With Money

Thanks again for listening and subscribing.

You can support Better off Read financially at Buy Better off Read a Coffee

As you will know, in this series I’m asking guests to identify ‘something that has made them laugh’. Sarah offered the TV series The Good Place created by Michael Schur. This is a show that has given both of us a lot of joy over the years and is a really great ‘way in’ to talking about Sarah’s new book Note on Womanhood which you can read more about at Otago University Press.

Sarah also has a great website where you can read about all her work

I was really keen to talk with Sarah about laughter in relation to her work. Sarah’s book is thoughtful and compelling - it’s a serious work. However, what I found interesting about it is that it still has something to say about laughter, the way we use it in communication and the ways it can be used to talk about womanhood. Sarah was really generous in this conversation and I enjoyed it a great deal.

I guess I am also interested in the extent to which some stand-up is life writing. I’m interested in what we can learn from stand-ups when we come to write memoir and essay.

With this in mind I just wanted to share an episode from Jesse David Fox’s amazing podcast Good One. I just cannot recommend this podcast enough. In this episode Fox talks to James Acaster about his latest stand-up special and in particular about how he wrote parts of it which include the experience of other people in his life. Here’s a link to the episode in Stitcher

While I have you, I also wanted to recommend an episode of Good One from May this year called ‘How the Right Make Comedy Work for Them’. The guests on this episode are Matt Sienkiewicz and Nick Marx, authors of the amazing, new book That's Not Funny: How The Right Makes Comedy Work For Them

In this podcast we talk about this clip from James Acaster

And I mention Michael Schur’s new book How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question

Thanks again to every one who has subscribed here and to those who help support the podcast financially.

Thanks for listening to this episode.

Pip

As you will know, in this series I’m asking guests to identify ‘something that has made them laugh’. Brannavan offered Kira Muratova's film The Asthenic Syndrome which, maybe, is not an immediately obvious choice. Well, it wasn’t to me. It is, of course the perfect starting point for a conversation about Bran’s compelling, disturbing, funny(?), romantic new novel Slow Down, You’re Here. Which you can buy from Lawrence and Gibson the publishing collective that has brought some of the best reads of the last 10 years.

Bran and I talk alot about tone and horror and humour. Bran has some really great things to say about pace and how to control tension. Slow Down, You’re Here is a book that just doesn’t let you go. I felt bodily anxious when I had to be away from it for any reason. In the end, I had to lock myself away and read most of it in one sitting.

What I’m thinking about most right now (having just finished editing this episode) is what Brannavan says about how this film never lets us be complacent. We are always implicated in the film.

I make a comment about Stuart Lee and the rythm of, ‘I am laughing at these areseholes. What about these arseholes. Wait … I am an arsehole’. It’s a structure I’ve always been a bit in awe of.

But I think The Asthenic Syndrome plays a slightly different game. The slam-changes in tone mean it is impossible to settle. What I experienced was this sense of relaxing into a laugh and then in that surrender being confronted with something shocking. Brannavan talks about there being nothing cathartic about the laughter of the film. And in this way the film made me think alot about ‘post-comedy’ - the way the release is never coming, the discomfort remains and there is nothing left to do but sit with ourselves and our discomfort. It’s an amazing experience and one that lends itself to making art about difficult poilitical questions.

You can watch all of The Asthenic Syndrome on YouTube - please be aware there is some pretty tough stuff in it - animals are not treated well, humans are not treated well and there is some explicit nudity in the film.

We mention ‘Murdoch’ - which is Murdon Stephens who also has an amazing new novel Down From Upland

Brannavan also mentions several other writers from New Zealand: Megan Dunn, Rebecca K Reilly, Chloe Lane

We talk about Stephen King’s novel Misery

There is a film of Stephen King’s Misery you can watch the trailer here

We talk about Kenneth Cook’s novel Wake in Fright

There is also a film of Wake in Fright you can watch the trailer here

Thanks again to everyone who has subscribed to the podcast here and thanks to the paid subscribers. I appreciate it a great deal.

I’m currently reading Middlemarch by George Elliot which I feel very odd about - very happy to talk about my discomfort about reading from the canon in comments. As I type this I’m listening to Jason by Perfume Genius (still feeling pretty lucky to have seen them last week - I won’t be the same again).

In this episode, Rachel O’Neill and I are talking about Pockets and Everything Everywhere All At Once two films made by Daniel Kwan and Daniel Scheinert.

SPOILER WARNING: If you haven’t seen these films and want to, I wouldn’t listen to this podcast. Like really. Both these films are such a joy to see with no previous information. Rachel and I made a decision to talk about all of the films and there are some quite big spoilers in this episode. There is a link to Pockets below. It’s a short film - like 3 minutes.

Rachel is one of my favourite artists and I love how this conversation starts by talking about these two amazing films which both of us love and moves to talk about the ‘hows’ of making art. I have a Post-It note above where I am typing this which says, ‘Your only job is to keep the faith’ - it was something the writer Kirsten McDougall said to me last year and it helped get me through the final draft of a novel. Next to this Post-It note is another note with a quote from Rachel which I scribbled down during the launch of their amazing book Requiem for a Fruit. This note says, ‘You are the only one who knows what will make you happy’.

I think read out of context these two notes seem to suggest a way of working which is all about the self but what I love about this conversation - what I got out of it - is that there are ways to find a type of ‘faith’ that is worth keeping. Here I think I’m using ‘faith’ to mean purpose or integrity or vision or commitment. While editing the podcast the quote about happiness also started to come into a deeper focus. I think through this discussion with Rachel I came to recognise happiness as synonymous with healing. That this hard work of finding a way to be in the world is intensely personal and at the same time absolutely imperative to being part of communities and creating work that is offered into these communities.

In this series, I’m finding again and again that I’m talking to people about how profound ‘funny’ is. How we do this strange thing where we value ‘serious’ work differently to ‘funny’ work. In this episode we talk a bit about the heavy-lifting silliness does. And I think the same can be said about happiness. For a lot of my life, I’ve thought I’m only productive in a state is distress or sadness. What I’m starting to see, is that maybe I write when in these states as an attempt to find what makes me happy. I’m really interested in the idea, raised in this discussion, about what type of work healing produces and of the productive possibilities of happiness.

These conversations are very much a process for me and maybe (probably) I won’t stand by the things I’ve written here in a week or a month - but I’ll be grateful for the thinking of them and for having a space to write them.

Thank you again for subscribing. It means a lot to have this space to think and write and talk.

Here’s some links:

This is a link to Pockets a short film by the Daniels.

This is a link to the trailer for Everything Everywhere All At Once

Here is a link where you can find Rachel’s book Requiem for a Fruit on the We Are Babies website

In this episode Rachel talks about a quote of the New Zealand filmmaker about the impact of a single gesture. The short film is Journey to Ihipa - a 2008 drama directed by Nancy Brunning and written by Vicki-Anne Heikell, who said the following in the Writer's Notes section of the Press Kit:

Writer’s Notes – Vicki-Anne Heikell (Nö Te Whänau-a-Apanui) ‘As a writer I am interested in examining the nature of relationships within Mäori communities. Journey to Ihipa looks at the way people can be lost behind their eccentricities that distance them from others in the community and indeed from their own story. I like that compassion shown by one person to another can come in a throw-away line or a small gesture and in those inconsequential moments a person and an entire community can change.’

As you may know by now, this year I’m producing a series called Beyond a Joke where I speak with writers and other artists using something that has made them laugh as a jumping off point to discuss their work.

Anthony is an incredible fiction writer and you can read more about him and his work on his website www.anthonylapwood.wordpress.com

Anthony brought a painting as a starting point. A painting which also made me laugh a lot.

Anthony’s amazing book Home Theatre (Te Herenga Waka University Press) is available at most book shops and you can read more about it here

As well as creating the cover for Anthony’s book, Jonathan King also created a trailer for the book.

The last two writers have had author photos taken by Ebony Lamb. Ebony is an amazing photographer. She’s photographed me and it was a really nice experience. Which is saying something because I hate having my photo taken.

This is Ebony’s website.

If you need a photo I highly recommend talking to Ebony.

You can support Better off Read financially at Buy Better off Read a Coffee

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I loved talking to Jordan so much. I’ve been a fan for a while and it was so great to sit down and chat about poetry and humour.

Jordan’s new book Everyone is Everyone Except You is out in May 2022 with Dead Bird Books. Click here to read more

To launch the book Jordan is having two launch events.

Wednesday 18 May at Unity Books Pōneke

Thursday 19 May at SOAP in Tāmaki Makaurau with Dominic Hoey and Samuel Te Kani

The best place to get information about these events is probably Jordan’s Instagram page

Listen to the latest episode and subscribe on Substack https://betteroffread.substack.com

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In this, the first episode in this series I speak with Anna Jackson abouta single cell from a Peanuts cartoon where Snoopy is pretending to be a cow. This turns out to be a really great way into talking to Anna about her amazing new book Actions & Travels: How Poetry Works (Auckland University Press)