Better Words

In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Michelle's birthday trip to The Lake District and our excitement for the bookish girl autumn Maisie Peters is teasing with her new single
• Caitlin's brief thoughts on The Life of a Showgirl
• Kalynn Bayron's supernatural twist on Mary Shelley's classic Frankenstein (which Michelle hasn't read)
• An update on Michelle's journey through watching Supernatural
• Second-chance dual timeline rom-com Love Overdue by Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• We love the vibe from everything Maisie Peters has teased about her new album
• 'Our Review of Life of a Showgirl' by the Shameless podcast
• Our interview with Kalynn Bayron
• Katabasis by R.F. Kuang
• Mary and the Birth of Frankenstein by Anne Eekhout
• Scot and Bothered by Alexandra Kiley
• While You Were Reading and Fancy Meeting You Here by Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus
• The Smart Girl's Guide to Second Chances by Steph Vizard

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

In this episode, we're discussing Rytual by Chloe Elisabeth Wilson. Unlike review episodes, book club chats will include some spoilers (although we'll still try to keep things vague).

About the book:

Marnie Sellick is adrift when she lands a job at the coveted, mysterious beauty brand rytuał cosmetica.

The enigmatic founder and CEO, Luna Peters, takes a liking to Marnie, and as the two grow closer Marnie becomes intoxicated by the life that Luna, and rytuał, can offer her.

But all is not what it seems at rytuał. Luna has a cult-like hold over the all-female staff, and that’s not to mention what happens at their weekly Friday Night Drinks.

As Marnie edges closer to the darkness at the centre of rytuał’s millennial-pink facade, cracks begin to show. Luna is hiding something, but will Marnie uncover the truth – and the role Luna has cast her in – before it’s too late?

Here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Shameless (podcast)
• Sounds Like a Cult (podcast)
• Cultish by Amanda Montell
• All I Ever Wanted to Be Was Hot by Lucinda Price

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Rewitched and Uncharmed by Lucy Jane Wood
• The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
• The Newsreader (TV series)

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Sabrina the Teenage Witch (TV series)
• Charmed (TV series)
• Mhairi McFarlane books
• Beth O'Leary books
• Markus Zusak's 20th anniversary posts on Instagram
• Boy Swallows Universe by Trent Dalton
• Twilight by Stephanie Meyer
• The Guardian's review of The Newsreader season 3
• Fake (TV series)
• Fisk (TV series)
• The Summer I Turned Pretty (TV series)

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Behind the scenes of setting up a new bookshop
• Seeing The Thursday Murder Club in the cinema
• Our thoughts on the movie as an adaptation (yes, there are some spoilers here)

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• The Rest is Entertainment podcast (specifically, the episode 'Noel Clarke Loses to The Guardian' from August 26)
• Richard Osman on the film's casting

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Oh, hello! We're back and trying a new format. In short: we burnt out and lost the love for making the podcast (although we loved speaking to authors).

While we've not been recording podcasts, we have been sharing monthly recommendations on Substack. You can take a look (and subscribe!) here.

In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Watching some classic 2000s TV and the joy of not binging
• A preview of books we're excited for coming out in the last months of 2025
• Our favourite read of the year so far

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Veronica Mars (TV)
• Supernatural (TV)
• Charmed (TV)
• The Summer I Turned Pretty (TV)
• The Traitors UK (TV)
• Married at First Sight Australia (TV)
• The Americans (TV)
• Katabasis by R.F. Kuang
• Babel by R.F Kuang
• Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang
• Uncharmed and Rewitched by Lucy Jane Wood
• The Love Of Our Lives by Emma Steel (listen to our interview)
• Paper Heart by Cecila Ahern (listen to our interview)
• Sad Girl Hours by Anna Zoe Quirk (listen to our interview)
• The Killer Question by Janice Hallett (listen to our interview)
• When Gavin Met Stacey and Everything in Between by James Corden and Ruth Jones
• Cat: On The Road to Findout by Yusuf/Cat Stevens
• Wings by Paul McCartney
• The Mushroom Tapes by Helen Garner, Chloe Hooper and Sarah Krasnostein
• If you missed the 'Mushroom murder' you can catch up with this episode of Just the Gist
• The Gingerbread Bakery by Laurie Gilmore
• Gravity Let Me Go by Trent Dalton
• Chosen Family by Madeleine Gray (listen to our interview)
• This House of Grief by Helen Garner (which was picked for Dua Lipa's book club)
• One Golden Summer by Carly Fortune
• Consider Yourself Kissed by Jessica Stanley

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Welcome to our favourite episode: the yearly wrap! We're sharing our reading stats, 2024 goals and the books, TV, film and audio we loved in 2024.

Make sure you're also following us on Substack. On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to – and we try to keep these separate from regular episode recommendations. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Thank you for joining us in 2024 and supporting our wonderful authors. We love hearing your thoughts on the episodes and what books you've been inspired to pick up – even if it's an older episode. You can also connect with us on Instagram @betterwordspod

We're keeping recommendations brief. If we've featured or discussed the book before, we'll link to the episode.

Any PR/review copies marked with *

We kick off with a wrap-up of our reading stats for the year: how many books and pages, the moods and re-reads.

Our awards category of favourite books kicks off at

Caitlin: I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue*

Michelle: The Silence in Between by Josie Ferguson* (listen to our interview)

Caitlin: If You Would Have Told Me by John Stamos

Michelle: Everything is Everything by Clive Myrie

Caitlin: This Summer Will Be Different by Carley Fortune

Michelle: Prima Facie by Suzie Miller* (listen to our book club chat)

Caitlin: Appreciation by Liam Pieper* (our interview)

Michelle: The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey* (our interview)

Caitlin: Sit Stay Love/Love From Scratch by Amy Hutton* (our interview)

Michelle: You Belong with Me by Mhairi McFarlane (our 2021 interview)

Caitlin: Tom Lake by Ann Patchett

Michelle: Alone in Berlin by Hans Fallada

Honourable mention: Family Politics by John O'Farrell

Caitlin: I’m Not Really Here by Gary Lonesborough* (our interview)

Michelle: Dead Happy by Josh Silver (our 2023 interview)

Caitlin: How To Kill Your Family by Bella Mackie* (our book club chat)

Michelle: The Bee Sting by Paul Murray*

Caitlin:  Experienced by Kate Young* (our interview)

Michelle: The Beholders by Hester Musson

Caitlin: We Could Be Something by Will Kostakis

Michelle: Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen

Caitlin: Tom Lake by Ann Patchett

Michelle: I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue*

Michelle:

• 10 Marchfield Square by Nicola Whyte
• A Trial in Three Acts by Guy Morpuss
• 33 Place Brugmann by Alice Austen
• The Grapevine by Kate Kemp
• All the Other Mothers Hate Me by Sarah Harman
• The Eights by Joanna Miller

Caitlin:

• Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley
• The Pool by Hannah Tunnicliffe

Michelle:

• Cover Story by Mhairi McFarlane
• Famous Last Words by Gillian McAllister

Caitlin:

• Swept Away by Beth O'Leary
• Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry
• Slags by Emma Jane Unsworth
• Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

Caitlin:

• Shrinking
• The New Look
• Nobody Wants This

Michelle:

• SAS: Rogue Heroes
• The Americans
• Everyone Else Burns

Caitlin:

• Better Man
• Challengers
• My Old Ass

Michelle:

• Midas Man
• Wicked
• Prima Facie – NT Live re-release (listen to us chat about it here)

• Caitlin's trip to Prince Edward Island
• Literary Legends StoryGraph challenge for 2025
• Boy From the Valleys by Luke Evans
• Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister
• Elphie by Gregory Maguire
• So Thrilled For You by Holly Bourne*
• So Good by Emily English

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Jennie Godfrey was raised in West Yorkshire and her debut novel, The List of Suspicious Things, is inspired by her childhood there in the 1970s. Jennie is from a mill-working family, but as the first of the generation born after the mills closed, she went to university and built a career in the corporate world. In 2020 she left and began to write. She is now a writer and part-time Waterstones bookseller and lives in the Somerset countryside.

Our interview begins at  24.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Thoroughly Disenchanted by Alexandra Almond

A time slip novel set in regional Victoria where a couple become stuck in a property. Now, 100 years on they get a visitor who helps them uncover the mysteries of the property.

Michelle recommends: Rewitched by Lucy Jane Wood and So Thrilled For You by Holly Bourne*

Rewitched is a cosy delight for anyone who grew up watching Sabrina The Teenage Witch. And if you grew up with that? You're probably also the right age to feel like Holly Bourne's new contemporary novel is incredibly relatable. Both are amazing.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Jennie's recollection of growing up during the time police were searching for serial killer The Yorkshire Ripper and how this inspired the novel
• How audiences interact with true crime and how we talk about crimes and the impact of crime on everyday people
• The influences from Jennie's real life that can be seen in the novel
• The process from writing to publishing the novel (including how Jennie knew which editor would 'get' the book)
• Jennie's stint as a bookseller and how this helped her understand the publishing process

Books and other things mentioned:

• Charmed (TV show)
• Ghosts (TV show)
• The Longest Shadow (TV series)
• The Yorkshire Ripper Files (TV series)
• Sarah Everard's murder, which happened in lockdown 2021
• The Peepshow by Kate Summerscale
• The Crime of the Century by Hallie Rubenhold

Follow Jennie @jennie.godfrey on Instagram and

The List of Suspicious Things is available now!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Emma Grey is a novelist, feature writer, photographer, professional speaker and accountability coach. She wrote her first adult novel, The Last Love Note, in the wake of her husband’s death. It’s a fictional tribute to their love, an attempt to articulate the magnitude of her loss and a life-affirming commitment to hope, which has gone on to win hearts around the world. In the US, it was selected as a featured title for the Book of the Month and Target Book Clubs, a Washington Post noteworthy book and listed in the top 25 new releases by the American Bookseller’s Association. Emma lives near Canberra, where her world centres on her family, writing, photography and endlessly chasing the Aurora Australis.

Our interview begins at  33.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini (film) club: Wicked

Of course, we had to hold space and discuss the movie of the moment. In short: we loved it.

In this interview, we chat about:

• How can we tell stories about complex issues like violence against women in fiction?
• Why Emma also wanted to explore amnesia through the story
• The experience of having an American bestseller
• The parenting email that launched Emma's writing career
• Exploring grief in her first adult novel and the interesting journey to publication via a YA novel inspired by Harry Styles
• How Emma dealt with the way the book was received in the UK given the difficult subject matter

Books and other things mentioned:

• Pulp Kitchen (podcast)
• Deadpool and Wolverine (film)
• It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover
• National Women's Safety Organisation
• Tuesday Evenings at the Copeton Craft Resistance by Kate Solly
• Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books Podcast by Zibby Owens

Follow @emmagreyauthor on Instagram

Pictures of You is available now. The publisher provided us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview. 

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Pip Drysdale writes ‘sexy-cool’ thrillers with a dash of witty humour. She grew up in Africa, Canada, and Australia, became an adult in New York and London, and lives on a steady diet of coffee, dreams, and literature. Her books — The Sunday Girl, The Strangers We Know, The Paris Affair and The Next Girl — have been bestsellers. She currently lives in Sydney and we're chatting about The Close Up.

Our interview begins at  15.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Lovestruck by Laura Jane Williams

A very enjoyable Sliding Doors-style concept romance, where a woman manifests her dream life. But which life is the right one?

Michelle recommends: Rare Singles by Benjamin Myers*

A gem of a novel about an ageing American singer whose trip to a fading English seaside town reveals more than he expected. A heartwarming character-driven novel.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The inspiration for Pip's new novel, The Close Up
• Why she wanted to set it in LA and the importance of research trips
• How Pip visualise while writing (and how we read)
• How Pip uses scent to help her writing
• Pip's process for plotting and writing

Books and other things mentioned:

• Listen to our previous interview with Laura Jane Williams
• How to Build a Life with Laura Jane Williams on Substack
• The Husbands by Holly Gramazio
• A Novel Love Story by Ashley Poston
• Nobody Wants This (TV show)
• Melrose Place (TV show)

Follow @pipdrysdale on Instagram

The Close Up is available in Australia and the US now. Thank you to the publisher for providing us with copies of the book to prepare for the interview.

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Melanie Cheng is a writer and general practitioner. She was born in Adelaide, grew up in Hong Kong and now lives in Melbourne. Her debut collection of short stories, Australia Day, won the Victorian Premier’s Literary Award for an Unpublished Manuscript in 2016 and the Victorian Premier’s Literary Award for Fiction in 2018. Room for a Stranger, her highly acclaimed first novel, was published in 2019. Today we're discussing her new novel, The Burrow.

Our interview begins at  31.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Intermezzo by Sally Rooney

One of the most talked about books of 2024 and not one Michelle even finished. However, Caitlin explains why she enjoyed Intermezzo and who she'd recommend it to.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The inspiration for The Burrow and choosing to explore grief several years on from a traumatic event
• How to strike the right balance between realism and hope
• Why Melanie is so fascinated by mothers and daughters in her writing
• Melanie's work as a GP and how she started writing

Books and other things mentioned:

• Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang
• Rare Singles by Benjamin Myers
• The Bee Sting by Paul Murray
• Any Ordinary Day by Leigh Sales
• Gary Lonesborough interview
• Lucy By the Sea by Elizabeth Strout
• The Sitter by Angela O'Keefe

Follow @cheng_melanie on Instagram

The Burrow is available in Australia and the US now. Thank you to the publisher for providing us copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod