Beyond Billables

Many lawyers feel as if they don’t have enough free time or space for their own life apart from work. Today’s episode of Beyond Billables deals largely with what to do with the time you spend outside of work (as limited as that time may be). Our guest for this episode is Melissa Scott - attorney, big picture thinker, ex-bodybuilder, and legal counselor at Megaport.

Melissa has a lot of insight to share not only in terms of her journey as a lawyer that went in-house, but also in how to have a life outside of work. We dug deep into her health and fitness odyssey, talked about creative outlets, having fun, and ultimately what constitutes a good and balanced life.  

Listen to the full episode to all this, plus things like.

• Melissa’s journey out of the billable hour paradigm
• The inside scoop on Megaport
• A day in the life of an in-house attorney
• Melissa’s experience as a bodybuilder
• The value of being a self-learner
• How Melissa has faced technical topics
• Tech startup vs law firm pros and cons
• The danger in extreme personalities
• Why you must find a creative outlet
• Melissa’s advice to her younger self

Links:

Melissa Scott - Linkedin

ACC Australia

Megaport

On Today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we had the pleasure of picking the brain of a lawyer on the front lines of legal evolution. Thomas Kaldor is the head of LegalVision’s transformation team, whose career credits also include working as an associate to Justice Kiefel (now Chief Justice) at the High Court of Australia and as a solicitor at Allens, a well-known corporate law firm.

In our conversation with Thomas, we traced his career trajectory, discussed his decision to leave his big law job and what it’s been like in a more tech-focused company. This is a great episode for people who are looking to make lateral moves or find new ways of applying their skills without leaving the law entirely.

Listen to the full episode to all this, plus things like.

• How Thomas left a big law firm and joined LegalVision
• What it’s like working with ‘high stature’ people
• Why Thomas is concerned about an over-reliance on tech solutions
• Legal Visions fee setup and business model
• Thomas’s take on legal marketing
• The problem with being hung up on titles and credentials
• The pitfalls of the ‘distributed lawyer’ model
• Flexible work arrangements, professional development, and perks
• How Thomas applies design thinking

Links:

Thomas Kaldor - Linkedin

Legal Vision

Beyond Law

Are you a current or prospective lawyer wondering what an uncertain future might hold in terms of career options? If so, you’ll not want to miss today’s episode of Beyond Billables. Today we’re talking to Peter Connor a ‘Global Change Agent’ with  25+ years of legal, compliance and business experience. In the course of his polished career, Peter has developed a knack for challenging the status quo and finding a way to reimagine better solutions.

In our conversation, we chatted about many things but really honed in on the skills & strategy a lawyer is going to need to succeed as the law changes. We dug into the specifics of what skills should be focused on, how going in-house can be a great stepping stone to something else and ultimately, how law firms need to evolve.

Listen to the full episode to hear things like:

• The reasons people want to work in-house
• Alternatively Legal - what it is and how it works
• Why Peter became a lawyer
• How to avoid the ‘traditional mindset trap’
• The idea of the T-shaped Lawyer
• How Peter used design thinking to improve compliance training
• Things lawyers should drill down on
• The challenges of stepping into an in-house role
• The ‘killer skill’ according to Peter
• What changes are most needed from law firms

Links:

Peter Connor - Linkedin

Alternatively Legal

T-Shaped lawyer

Technology is disrupting nearly every industry, and law is no exception. As AI, blockchain technology and smart contracts become everyday parlance in the industry, students in law school will have to adequately adapt to become competitive once they graduate.

At the University of Technology Sydney, Faculty of Law, this reality has already led to a reworking of how they teach their students. In the latest episode of Beyond Billables, UTS lecturers stopped by to explain how their law program has been reflecting the rapid change we are experiencing when it comes to technology. Maxine Evers and Dr Philippa Ryan, two senior lecturers at UTS Faculty of Law, had a lot of insightful things to say about how law students should (and already are) preparing themselves for something of a technological revolution in their industry.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why you should know how to intelligently analyse data
• How to protect against the uncertainty that comes with swiftly changing technology
• The increasing usefulness of in-house law teams
• How team collaboration will become more prevalent in law
• Why it’s a good idea for law students to pursue a dual degree in engineering, math or other STEM subjects
• How law will experience a ‘reverse ageism’ in the coming years
• Why the fundamentals of law still haven’t changed
• How law could become more of a ‘service industry’

Links:

Maxine Evers - LinkedIn

Dr Philippa Ryan - LinkedIn

UTS Faculty of Law

Today’s guest on Beyond Billables is a professional with an exciting hybrid skill set similar to what we often advocate on the podcast. Laura Cowan is a New York-based entrepreneur who is a qualified public accountant and lawyer, a rare CPA-JD combo. Her career spans the fields of investment banking, accounting, estate law and, of course, opening her own business.

In our conversation, we chatted about many things - big career transitions, the benefits of being good with numbers, gaps that exist in legal staffing and organizational structures, the pros and cons of entrepreneurship, and how to face your fears. We also touched on the practical elements of Laura’s business, her marketing efforts, the things she didn’t expect and the practical challenges that came up and what she did about them.

Listen to the full episode to hear things like:

• Estate planning in a US context
• Laura’s transition from investment banking to law
• The benefits of business coaching
• How Laura has attracted clients
• The high cost over associate turnover (and what to do about it)
• The ‘elephant in the room’ of attorney staffing
• Laura’s use of technology in her practice
• Dealing with bumps in the road
• Laura’s advice to younger professionals

Links:

Laura Cowan - Linkedin

Laura Cowan - website

Technology, with all its faults, has undeniably improved the human experience. It’s easier for us to receive medical care, read a book or talk to loved ones. But have you ever thought about how it could make it easier to work with a lawyer?

Patrick Brown is a coder and lawyer who has created a platform called Codepact that generates customised legal documents that are intuitive and accessible for the average person. Rather than wade through all of the legal jargon, those using Codepact will be presented with a simplified interface that provides definitions for confusing topics and easily walks the user throughout the process.

On the latest episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, Patrick explained how this is the way of the future. In the not too distant future, he said, most lawyers will be using some form of software to streamline their work.

If this sounds interesting, be sure to listen to the full episode. We also chat about:

• How Patrick taught himself how to code
• Why most lawyers are perfectly capable of learning how to code themselves
• How technology will help increase collaboration in law
• How automated contracts take out excess boilerplate and helps clients understand what’s going on
• The intricacies of branch version control and how it can make your life easier
• Why new technology makes it easier for lawyers to skip drudgery and focus on what they really care about
• How lawyers can learn from coders when it comes to innovation and change
• Why you should start your own law firm — and why it’s easier than ever

Links:

Patrick Brown’s Website

Codepact

Codepack Training

The law is changing fast and those who don’t change with it are in danger of being left behind. One person who knows this all too well is today’s guest on Beyond Billables, Mark Lazarus. Mark’s career has zig-zagged back and forth between Australia and the UK, all the while making space for a barrister role along with various stints with Monster Energy Drink and weathering the GFC in the process.

After working for one of the hottest global energy drink brands on the planet, Mark has now taken some of that "energy" from Monster and put it into building his own practice working with Startups, SME's, FMCG's and creatives in the sports, music, entertainment, and fashion industries. Mark’s got some very progressive ideas about legal marketing, the business of law, and how lawyers can embrace the future. Speaking with him was an absolute pleasure.

Listen to the full episode to hear things like:

• Mark’s mindset advice for young lawyers
• Revivifying efforts at Lazarus Legal
• The importance of using a great CRM
• The keys to Lazarus Legal’s marketing approach
• The acronym ‘SEFO’, Lazarus Legal’s special sauce
• The best compliments Mark ever received
• Why fixed fee agreements can often be misleading
• Why Mark became a barrister (and why it ultimately wasn’t for him)
• Why the goals you set always end up changing
• The effect of the GFC on Mark’s career
• Why Mark considers himself a ‘glorified gardner’

Links:

Linkedin

E: [email protected]

Lazarus Legal

On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we’re speaking with Alexis lamb, a self-described ‘recovering lawyer’, remote worker, and veteran of big law firms in New York and Hong Kong. As someone who works from her laptop (and has pivoted into recruiting), Alexis is another shining example of a person who’s made a legal background work for them.

In our conversation, we spoke to Alexis about her motivations to get into law, her experiences in big law firms, how the recession affected her, location independence, how to find your sweet spot and a whole slew of other things. Alexis is bright, quick with the funny one-liner and keen to share her learnings with others, this episode isn’t to be missed!

Listen to the full show to hear all of the above, plus things like...

• How the ‘no pants life’ blog was born
• How technology is helping people achieve flexibility
• How the recession impacted Alexis
• Working from home vs digital nomading
• Why Alexis became a lawyer
• The problem with how many big firms treat associates
• The transition from working in New York to Hong Kong
• How Alexis has dealt with big setbacks in life
• Why risk tolerance tends to change with age
• The new mobility of human capital
• The challenge in doing something without precedent
• Alexis’ advice to her younger self

Links:

No Pants Life

Medium

Instagram

Twitter

On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we conducted a case study of sorts. The goal was to review the practices of an innovative company who’ve have taken a large chunk of business out of the employment law marketplace and see what could be learned. Guiding us through this process was Michael Morris head of talent at Employsure.

Michael told us a bit about his story and ultimately how he ended up at the company that is ‘disrupting workplace relations’ across New Zealand and Australia. He talked about hiring practices, values, models, growth, flexibility, what kind of people Employsure looks for and offered advice to future lawyers. This conversation isn’t to be missed.

Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus things like...

• What Employsure is and what makes their approach different
• Michael’s career trajectory and story
• The’ insanity’ of current legal education
• Roles for lawyers within the Employsure model
• The hiring challenges Michael has faced
• What Employsure looks for in candidates
• Why people are the critical element in any service business
• What makes a great work culture
• Flexible work arrangements - the need for them, and Employsure’s offering
• The evolution of legal tech innovation
• The ‘good’ growth problem that Michael has

Links:

Employsure

Instagram

Michael - Linkedin

Jess Harvie has made an incredible journey in her life, from working as a corporate lawyer in Sydney, to joining a flower delivery startup, to starting a career in tech. As Diversity & Inclusion Manager at Justworks, a tech company in New York City that designs human resources solutions for small to medium-sized businesses. Jess’ work finds her helping develop human resources programs for businesses, promote diversity in her company and make real, genuine relationships with clients.

On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, Jess tells us how her skills learned as a lawyer were invaluable as she made the leap to a new career path. She describes how quitting her law gig with no jobs lined up gave her the motivation she needed to get serious about finding a career path that was both challenging and emotionally rewarding. If you’re ever been curious about how people make the transition out of law, you’ll love this show.

Listen to the full episode to hear things like:

• How law culture can stifle creativity
• Why Jess had to learn to sound “American” when selling herself to potential employers
• How having a law background opened up opportunities in Jess’ newest job
• Why it’s important to become comfortable with criticism
• The importance of recognising your true skills
• How the tough nature of law can keep you from realising your value
• How leaving your city (or country) can change your perspective
• Why it’s never too late to change your career

Links:

Jessica Harvie - LinkedIn

Justworks