Beyond Billables

Are you unhappy in your current role? Thinking of making a big change or a career transition? On today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we present another inspiring case study of a lawyer who turned to something else. Matthew Hollings is a graduate of The Queensland University of Technology in Law and Economics, and he was a solicitor at Gadens Lawyers for a number of years before taking on a business development role at Law In Order.

Matthew has ten years combined experience in legal and sales-orientated private sector roles, and he was a great person to speak to about making a big shift in work. In our conversation, we traced Matthew’s journeys, talked about how he made the tough decisions, chatted about the state of legal tech and speculated about what the future of law might look like.

Listen to the full episode to hear all of the above, plus all of this too:

• Matthew’s take on what business development really means
• The importance of having a support network in terms of big career jumps
• The biggest challenges Matthew has faced in taking a different path
• How to get people to take risks on legal tech products
• The benefits an ex-lawyer can bring to other roles
• What Law In Order does in real terms
• Matthew’s approach to educating his target market
• How to get over fear of failure or taking risks
• The types of skills Matthew is focusing on
• What organisations can do better to keep their most valuable people

 

Links:

Law In Order
LinkedIn

The legal industry is one of the most uniquely taxing and stressful professional environments there is. This has consequences, and one person all too familiar with this is social worker Robyn Bradey, who we were lucky enough to have on this episode of Beyond Billables. Robyn started off training lawyers who worked with clients suffering from mental health issues. But as awareness was raised about mental health within the profession, she quickly became a go-to source of information.

In our conversation, we talked about mental health issues in the legal profession from A to Z. We hit on how some of the structural and qualitative aspects of the law have such dire consequences. Robyn shared some stories from her career, talked about key issues that are changing or need to change and, perhaps most importantly, talked about what people who need help can do.

Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:

• How to recognise the symptoms of anxiety and depression
• The coming generational change in terms of what’s accepted for workplace ‘norms’
• The power of individual stories, particularly tragic ones
• How to move from talk to action
• Why working in the law can be a perfect storm of negative factors for some people
• What lawyers can do if they’re struggling
• How to connect people with the support and resources they need
• The pervasiveness of vicarious trauma
• How to get people past the fear of asking for help
• Why developing a thicker skin is both good and bad advice

 

Links:

Lifeline Australia

If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to start your own law firm, then this episode of Beyond Billables is for you. Mike sits down to talk to lawyer and good friend, Barry Spinks, to get his take on all things entrepreneurial. Barry is a partner at Spinks Eagle, a family man and a Brazilian jiu jitsu blue belt. He has had a fantastic journey so far, one that has taken him all over Australia and given him plenty of experience, and plenty of highly valuable advice.

Barry discusses things like how he made partner, taking the leap to begin running his own firm, the skills lawyers need to keep great clients, and how to maintain a balanced work and home life. Barry is an inspiration to professionals in every stage of their career, and his journey serves as a great reminder of the importance of removing your limitations and taking advantage of opportunities when they present themselves.

Listen to the podcast to hear more on the above, as well as:

• How Barry turned his lack of guidance and structure into positive outcomes
• Why you sometimes just have to turn up, robe up and give it a red-hot go
• The characteristics Barry looks for in graduates who have applied to work for his practice
• The benefits of having no limitations or expectations, and why you should believe you can do anything
• Barry’s tips on dealing with intense pressure
• The importance of going off the grid and unplugging your phone
• Why you don’t always need to take risks to gain successes
• How to be health conscious on a time-budget, and why you should make exercise a habit
• The biggest struggles Barry found while building his practice, and the most rewarding thing he’s gotten from his career
• Life lessons he’d give to his 18-year-old self, plus the riskiest thing he’s ever done

 

Links

SpinksEagle Lawyers
LinkedIn

Have you ever wanted to make a big transition in your career? What about moving abroad and experiencing something new? In today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we talk to someone who’s checked both of those boxes.

Meet Jon Karolczak, client director at Priori Legal and an Australian who left traditional legal practice for a tech startup in New York City. Jon was a Senior Corporate Attorney at MinterEllison in Australia, practising in corporate bankruptcy, business restructuring, and commercial litigation before he took the plunge and moved abroad. In this episode, we traced his journey, talked about how he overcame difficulties (including a risk-averse mindset), faced his fears, enjoyed innumerable benefits and ultimately found his niche.

Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:

• What brought Jon to New York
• The comparative advantages of startups vs big corporates
• The benefits of experimentation
• The value of being a continual learner
• The keys to successfully transitioning from a law firm to a startup
• The differences between US-Australian legal service markets
• What excites Jon about the future
• Why the relational nature of legal practice still matters so much
• The key to taking big leaps in life
• The unseen benefits of personal sacrifice

 

Links:

Linkedin
Personal Site
Priori Legal
Facebook
Instagram

Want to glimpse into the future of generational dynamics? In this episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, we chatted with demographer Claire Madden to try to make some sense of what some of these generational shifts mean in a legal context. … Read more Claire Madden on Generation Z, Changing Demographics and New Versions of a Successful Life

Listen to this episode if you’re interested in taking control of your career and moving away from outdated models. Because doing so might not necessarily mean breaking from the big law establishment. In today’s episode of Beyond Billables, we’re talking with Richard Punt who clearly articulates why this might be the case. Richard is the CEO of Allen & Overy’s Peerpoint consulting platform, where he focuses on businesses development and international expansion.

Before Allen & Overy, Richard was a managing partner with Deloitte and a strategy consultant with extensive experience in the development and execution of strategy and organisation design. And with such a wealth of experience, he’s a great person to report from the front lines of a changing industry.

Listen to this episode to hear how Allen & Overy is adapting to a changing landscape, as well as Richard’s take on the future of legal practice, plus all this too:

• What Peerpoint is and why it matters
• Richard’s take on where legal tech is headed
• The impetus for A&O’s more flexible approach
• The type of lawyers ideal for Peerpoint
• How mainstream firms can restructure their approaches
• The benefit of controlling one’s schedule and workflow
• Peerpoint’s selection criteria
• Tectonic mindset shifts within the legal industry
• Key abilities that future lawyers will need
• Where the legal services market is going
• How big international law firms are evolving

 

Links:

LinkedIn
The Contemporary Art Society
Peerpoint

Interested in travelling? Curious about the lifestyle of those who bounce around the globe while working remotely? Keen to hear how one guy has made it all work? If you checked any of these boxes, you won’t want to miss this week’s episode of the Beyond Billables podcast.

In this show, we chatted with Stephen Findley, a consultant, business development associate with Compliance Quarter, and the founder of the Remote Salesman. Stephen has managed to travel the world over the past two years with his girlfriend while maintaining a full-time sales and business development role. According to some, he’s lived the dream.

In our conversation, we traced Stephen’s journey from more conventional employment to the backroads of Vietnam to the coworking spaces of Bali. We dug into the pros and cons of the travel-working lifestyle, talked about the skills needed to adapt to an all-digital role, touched on how others might emulate him, and speculated on the future of the economy.

Listen to this episode to hear the full version of Stephen’s adventures, plus things like:

• How Stephen got into a remote work position
• What Compliance Quarter is and how it functions
• How Tim Ferriss inspired some of Stephen’s life decisions
• How to handle a client-facing role remotely
• How sales is changing in the modern era
• The struggle around finding routine as a traveller or remote worker
• How to pursue travelling and remote work (particularly in sales)
• The special sauce to Stephen’s professional approach
• The ingredients that make up a good coworking space
• The key skills that people need to develop for remote works

 

Links:

LinkedIn
Twitter
The Modern Remote Salesman
Compliance Quarter

Today we sat down and picked the brain of a techie legal product manager on what’s coming in the future. Philipp Thurner is one of the key faces behind LawAdvisor, he’s also an associate consultant with Janders Dean and founder of CHITIT, a lean innovation consultancy firm. He has been responsible for the co-ideation, design, and development of innovative legal technology solutions that have been recognised by the Financial Times and RSG Consulting APAC Innovative Lawyers Awards.

In our conversation, we traced the trajectory of his career, talked about the state of legal tech development, touched on resistance he’s facing in introducing new tools, what lawyers can do to prepare for the future, artificial intelligence, cryptocurrency, the dark web and blockchain technology.

Listen to this episode to get to grips with the cutting edge innovations taking place in and around the legal industry, plus all this too:

• Gilbert & Tobin’s approach to building an innovation team
• A quick primer on blockchain technology and where it might be headed
• The mindset and skills needed for a new law graduate today
• Why the gig economy is the way of the future
• What the dark web is and how it functions in practice
• The value of being allowed to experiment and fail
• Philipp’s experience balancing tech solutions against pre-existing business models
• Why law firms need legal project management
• Typical problems, pain points and inefficiencies that legal tech can address
• How making himself ‘redundant’ was one of Philipp’s best professional moves

 

Links:

LinkedIn
Law Advisor
Twitter

If you’ve ever thought about giving up on your corporate career and pursuing your passions, then you’ll 100% want to check out this episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, because this week we’re speaking with someone who did just that. Meet Brooke Elliston. Brooke is a yoga teacher, mindfulness advocate and ex-corporate attorney. In this episode of the show, we chart her fascinating journey, delve into lessons learned and get a great primer on yoga along the way.

Brooke began her career with Turkslegal in bankruptcy law and subsequently moved on to banking ligation with Gadens. Despite being relatively happy with her job, Brooke was under a lot of stress and developed a series of seemingly inexplicable health problems. These problems became so severe that she had to stop and reevaluate what she was doing. This started her down a path out of a legal career, into an exploration of mindfulness and ultimately to finding true fulfillment as a yoga teacher.

Listen to the full episode to hear all this, plus things like:

• The journey Brooke followed to leave her legal career
• The dangers of having a perfectionist tendency for lawyers
• Brooke’s first job in the law and what she learned from it
• How to approach yoga for the first time
• Brooke’s advice to her younger self
• The difference between ‘theoretical’ understanding and ‘physical reality’ understanding
• How Brooke started her own business
• What a yoga retreat looks like on the inside
• The challenges associated with shedding one’s ‘identity’

 

Links:

Facebook
Brooke Elliston Yoga
Instagram
Body Mind Life

Want to glimpse into the future of generational dynamics? In this episode of the Beyond Billables podcast, we chatted with demographer Claire Madden to try to make some sense of what some of these generational shifts mean in a legal context. Claire is a great person to talk to because, beyond being a social researcher, she’s also a keynote presenter, TEDx speaker, media commentator and business communicator.

We covered a lot of ground in our conversation and worked through the key findings in Claire’s forthcoming book, Hello Gen Z. We dug into the characteristics of Gen Z, areas where they excel, areas where they may be lacking, the elements that have shaped them, and, ultimately, how they can change the legal profession and how it needs to change with them.

LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODE TO HEAR ALL THIS, PLUS TOPICS LIKE:

• The defining characteristics of Gen Z
• How technology has formulated a more collaborative new generation
• What it means to say Gen Z is ‘very relational’
• Why job mobility and flexibility matter more now than stability
• Why attitudes have casualised toward work
• The areas where Gen Z is lacking and need to professionally develop
• How legal employers can begin catering to the new generation
• Why Gen Z has such a strong desire to be social and make a positive change
• What future legal clients look like
• Why Gen Z carries a currency and a relevancy that matters now

 

Links

LinkedIn
Hello Clarity
Claire’s TED Talk