Beyond the Uniform

"At the end of the day no one is ever going to come to you as a veteran [with a job offer] - they're going to thank you for your service, but they're not going to make a job for you. Nor do you want them to make a job for you. The trick is getting in as many people's rolodexes as possible. And I kind of did that - unwittingly - while I was at West Point."
- Nicholas Loudon

Nick Loudon is the Chief of Staff for Eastern Air Lines. He started out at West Point, served in the Army as an Infantry Officer for 8 years before going to the Teachers College at Columbia University to earn his MA in Organizational Psychology and Leadership. He’s worked at the E-learning company, Rowan Technologies, as both a Program Manager and COO, and joined Eastern Air Lines about a year and a half ago.

Why to Listen:

In this interview we discuss a variety of topics relevant to veterans in any industry. Nick has great advice for veterans about checking one's ego at the door, rolling up one's sleeves and doing whatever it takes to improve whatever task you're given. He shows how a willingness to learn has allowed him to transition - and be successful in - wildly different industries. And how a mindset of happiness, learning and humility can make all the difference.

Our Sponsor:

• StoryBox - People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Show Notes

• How did you approach the decision to leave the Army?
• How did you decide to go to TC?
• What led you to Rowan Technologies?
• How would you describe what Rowan Technologies does?
• What was your role like as a Program Manager?
• How did your work change when you were promoted to COO?
• What led you to Eastern Air Lines?
• How would you describe what Eastern Air Lines does?
• What do you do as Chief of Staff?
• What resources - books, programs, podcasts - have helped you in your civilian career that you would recommend to veteran listeners?
• Final words of wisdom

"We were sitting in one of [my wife's] guest rooms in her house in Abidjan, and I was trying to figure out what to do next with my life. And Emily said, 'You should do the GoRuck thing.' I don't think she knew what that meant and she certainly didn't have the vision for what it's become, and I certainly didn't at that time either. But that was the happy accident of - I need something to do and this could probably be it."
- Jason McCarthy

Thanks to Jared Wymer for the recommendation for this show.

Jason McCarthy is the Founder and CEO of GORUCK, a company he started nearly 10 years ago, a retail company that builds gear, hosts events, builds teams and strengthens the community. He started out at Emory University, after which he worked as an Analyst at Milestone Merchant Partners before joining the Army where he served for five years as a Special Forces Communication Sergeant. After the Army, he started GORUCK and has grown to a team of over 30 people, and over 100 Special Forces Cadre who lead our events.

Why to Listen:

• Jason gives a very raw and honest assessment of his entrepreneurial journey that will be a huge resource if you're considering starting your own company, but also an exhilarating story no matter what your intended career path. 

Our Sponsor:

• StoryBox - People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Resources:

• Steve Jobs biography

Show Notes

• You had a career before the Army - what led you to the Army?
• How did you decide to leave the Army?
• What was the genesis of GORUCK?
• In the early days, what was your life like?
• How did you finance all of this?
• How would you describe GORUCK to veteran listeners?
• Where is the company at now in terms of it’s growth?
• What has been the hardest part of starting GORUCK?
• What advice do you have for aspiring veteran entrepreneurs?
• What can someone on active duty do right now to start preparing to start their own company?
• Any resources (books, podcasts, programs, etc) you’d recommend to listeners?
• Final words of wisdom?

In this interview I dive into an analysis of thousands of LinkedIn profiles to better understand how the length of someone's military service impacts what industry they go into, as well as where they live for their civilian career.

This is a new type of episode, and I'd love any feedback on this approach. Usually, I interview military veterans about their civilian career. Today, instead, I'm going to dive into a specific skill I think would be helpful to veterans in their civilian career.

• StoryBox – People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

• The full e-book that I'm using for this episode can be downloaded here: http://beyondtheuniform.io/how-time-in-service-affects-navy-veteran-careers-ebook/
• The full list of LinkedIn Industries - and the sub categories I created for my analysis - can be viewed here: http://beyondtheuniform.io/industry-category-explanations/

"With all of these practices, if we drill down on what's actually happening with them, it is just a shift in your nervous system. Being able to connect the mind and the body and the breath via this system in your body that is designed to succeed and live inline with your values and goals."
- Dr. Dan Libby

Thanks to Tim Avery, btu #12 for the intro to Dan.

Dr. Dan Libby is the founder and executive director of Veterans Yoga Project (VYP). He has empowered veterans and their communities to access healing resources and find resilience both within themselves and through connection with others. He has also enabled yoga teachers and healthcare professionals to share these practices. He's a licensed clinical psychologist, and holds a B.S. in Psychology from the The University of Montana and a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), Clinical Psychology from St. John’s University.

Why to Listen:

• Veterans on the show often talk about meditation as a ay to stay grounded and be more productive at work. This is a great episode for exploring that and other helpful practices to keep you at your best inside and outside of work. 

Our Sponsor:

• StoryBox - People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Resources:

• 103 classes being taught around the United States that are free for veterans and taught by a VYP instructor. You can view them here, or contact the VYP to find someone to teach you locally
• Practice Library at VYP where you can download or stream a practice in breathing, movement, etc
• Veterans Gratitude Week - all of these resources are free for veterans. This week is dedicated to providing these resources for free for veterans through the contribution of others
• The Body Keeps the Score - A great book about the neuroscience behind this
• Wherever You Go, There You Are: Mindfulness Meditation in Everyday Life
• The Mindful Way Through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness

Show Notes

• What was the genesis of the Veterans Yoga Project?
• How would you explain VYP to someone on Active Duty?
• Is there an experiential part of this we could start with to give listeners a sense of the sort of tools you provide?
• In your work with Veterans, what are common objections or reserves you see about this sort of work?
• What are aspects of your work that you have seen be most beneficial to veterans?
• What other resources - books, programs, podcasts, etc - would you recommend to listeners
• Final words of wisdom to audience?

"For example, we had a $180 headphone that wasn't working - it wasn't the right price point or form factor. Once we stopped trying to win there, and just focused on being great under $100, it was amazing the power that focus can bring to the team. Not spreading yourself too thin, but giving your team the one objective, the one hill - because if we can win here, a lot of other things will just take care of themselves."
- Jason Hodell

See the full show notes and more veteran interviews at http://www.beyondtheuniform.io

Jason Hodell is the CEO of Skullcandy, which markets headphones, earphones, speakers and other products. Skullcandy was founded in 2003 and acquired in October 2016 by Mill Road Capital for $200 million. Jason started out at West Point, after which he served as an Infantry Officer in the US Army for five years. After the Army, he picked up his MBA at Wharton. He had an impressive career prior to Skullcandy, which we’ll discuss in the interview, and joined the Skullcandy team initially as their CFO & COO, the company grew revenue from $210M to approximately $300M after 3 years, he was appointed as the CEO of Skullcandy.

Why to Listen:

• Turnaround work at companies - Jason talks about the turnaround work he's done at companies, which may be well suited to many veterans. It involves rolling up one's sleeves, getting your hands dirty, and "improving the unit that is not the best in battalion."
• Take the long view - Jason talks about taking the long view on your career and investing in learning domain or market expertise
• Finance - Jason started out in finance, and talks about how this gave him the mental framework to think about companies and evaluate them as well as understand the nuts and bolts of any business
• General Management - Jason has been CEO, COO, and CFO of some incredible companies and talks about why veterans may enjoy (and be well suited for) these roles.

Our Sponsor:

• StoryBox - People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Resources:

• Resources for finance
  • Can check out syllabus for corporate finance class at Wharton and see textbooks (or at any leading finance business school) - here is on example.
• Book
  • What Color is Your Parachute - Jason read this book and it helped him in his own career; he recommends it to veteran listeners

Show Notes

• Jason's background
• When you left the Army, you went directly to get your MBA - how crucial was that decision in your career path, and what advice would you give to veterans considering an MBA?
• What was one of the biggest challenges you faced when leaving the military, and what advice do you have for those on active duty listening?
• I’d like to focus on your role at Skullcandy, but what would you want listeners to know about your career path from Wharton to Skullcandy?
• How did you first come onboard the Skullcandy team?
• How would you describe your role as COO & CFO to someone on active duty? What did your day-to-day life look like?
• You achieve an incredible turnaround - how did you go about this?
• How would you describe your current role as CEO - what does your day-to-day look like?
• How do you grow and get feedback?
• What were the gaps you needed to fill in from the military until the CEO role?
• What advice do you have for veterans seeking to be CEO of a company one day?
• What resources - books, programs, podcasts, etc - have been helpful to you in your civilian career that you would recommend to veterans listening?
• Final words of wisdom

In my interviews, we often use business jargon and terminology without explaining it. As Jason Hodell (BTU #122) said, "you've got to know the lingo." So, in this episode I dive into some of the most common civilian business terms I've had on the show. This is Part 1, so if there are other terms you'd like explained, send me a note about what terms you'd like me to cover for Part 2.

This is a new type of episode, and I'd love any feedback on this approach. Usually, I interview military veterans about their civilian career. Today, instead, I'm going to dive into a specific skill I think would be helpful to veterans in their civilian career.

• StoryBox – People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

"I thought I was a big shot traveller until I met these people and I realized that I was nothing, and they were incredible. I've read books and seen movies and TV shows where people take their motorcycles around the world. It's easy to think  - that person's crazy or that person has a personal fortune or that that person has some unbelievable life circumstance that makes that possible. But when I met people in real life who had done these long-distance motorcycle trips, and I realized they're just ordinary people who and they're just really passionate and excited about what they do. And it's possible for anyone to do it."
- Tim Patterson

Listen to the full interview here

Tim Patterson started off at the Naval Academy as part of the mighty class of 2002. He served as an officer onboard nuclear submarines for 8 years. After his transition from the military, Tim spent over four years traveling the world. Two of these years were done by BMW motorcycle, where he rode over 28,000 miles along the Pan-American highway, from Prudhoe Bay, Alaska to Ushuaia, Argentina. Studied Spanish in Guatemala. Survived Arctic weather, flat tires, and Colombian soldiers.

Why to Listen:

• Time to reflect - many of my guests have talked about how they rushed into a career or into school and did not have time to consider what they wanted to do or take time to decompress after their military service. Tim took 4 years to travel the world, two of which were spent traveling more than 28,000 miles by motorcycle. He had more than ample time to think about what he wanted to do next.
• Freedom - Tim is different from nearly every interview I have done to date. He is an example of complete freedom and autonomy after the military. He talks about it in a very real and personal way that shows that any veteran can do this too, and any veteran can pursue whatever dream they want to achieve.

Our Sponsor:

• StoryBox - People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

Selected Resources:

• Outside Magazine - read frequently on Active Duty to plan his trips
• The Longest Ride - spent 10 years traveling by motorcycle, very inspirational
• Road Fever - tried to set Guinness World Record from Argentina to Alaska in 26 days. Gave Tim the inspiration for the destination for Tim's own trip
• The Driver- the Cannonball Run, the fastest drive from New York to LA. Set a record for fastest trip.
• Ewan McGregor - Long Way Round & Long Way Down - actor's journey across Europe and Asia. These were inspirational for Tim's planning
• Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
• Shantaram
• The Zanzibar Chest - incredible book about East Africa
• Anything by Paul Theroux - The Great Railway Bazaar, The Old Patagonia Express
• Lost Japan

Show Notes

• Tim's background
• What did you do while on Active Duty to make this journey possible? How much money does someone on Active Duty need to save up to make this possible?
• What led you to travel - was the certain moment when you knew you were going to travel the world? How long did you initially think it would last?
• Could you give a high-level overview of what those four years looked like?
• What was one of the most challenging moments of the trip?
• Did you have a favorite location along the way?
• Why might someone listening who is on active duty benefit from taking time to travel instead of going directly into a job or school?
• How did you travels shape what you want to do for a career?
• What resources recommend for traveling?
• Could you talk about how you became involved journalism?
• What is a typical week like as a journalist?
• Where are you headed from here?
• Final words of wisdom?

This is a new type of episode, and I'd love any feedback on this approach. Usually, I interview military veterans about their civilian career. Today, instead, I'm going to dive into a specific skill I think would be helpful to veterans in their civilian career: The Slight Edge. Special thanks to Ray & Samantha Allen for recommending this book to me in their interview.

The Slight Edge is a great book about how small, repeated actions on a daily basis can lead to massive changes in your career, personal life, and relationships. In this 15-minute episode, I dive into some key takeaways from this book that Veterans and Active Duty Members of the Armed Forces can use to advance in their professional and personal lives. 

• StoryBox – People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

• The Slight Edge
• Other Skills Episodes
  • BTU #86 - So Good They Can't Ignore You
  • BTU #96 - Deep Work
  • BTU #119 - Skills #1: Empathy & Non-violent Communication

“I'm not sure that I'm the best necessarily at starting a business from scratch - figuring out a business model in my garage, making this thing work, and taking all the risks there are in the startup phase. But I was pretty sure that I could take a business that had cashflows, infrastructure, and a business model and make it a lot better."
– Jim Vesterman

Jim Vesterman is the CEO of Raptor Technologies, which is the nation's leading provider of integrated safety technologies for K-12 schools. He got his undergraduate degree at Amherst College, after which he worked at both the Monitor Group and for a software startup. He deferred his MBA to join the Marine Corps as part of 3rd Force Recon Company. After he got his MBA from Wharton, he started an entrepreneurial vehicle called a search fund - which we’ll get into - called Liberty Place Capital. Liberty Place Capital ultimately purchased Raptor Technologies in 2012 and he has been running that company for 5 years.

The top two reasons to listen to this episode are:

1. Perspective - Jim is the only person I've interviewed so far who had career before the Marine Corps. His look at re-entering the civilian workforce is compelling
2. Search Funds - this is a great entrepreneurial vehicle well suited for veterans. Rather than coming up with an original idea, you can raise money to buy an existing business, which you can grow. Jim talks about how this process works, and why it may be appealing to veterans.
3. Balance - Jim used used 5 vacation days and nights and weekends to raise money for his Search Fund - it's a great example of using one's extra time to further their career.

• StoryBox – People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

• Stanford has an incredible library of information about Search Funds that you can find here

This is a new type of episode, and I'd love any feedback on this approach. Usually, I interview military veterans about their civilian career. Today, instead, I'm going to dive into a specific skill I think would be helpful to veterans in their civilian career: Empathy. This has come up in many episodes as something that veterans have needed to develop to progress in their civilian career. A tool that I have found to be extremely helpful in my own life in building up empathy is something called: Non-Violent Communication (NVC).

In this episode we'll talk about how to build empathy (just like a muscle), and how identifying feelings & needs can uncover strategies to meet more people's needs (your team, your co-workers, your spouse, etc).

• StoryBox – People trust each other more than advertising. StoryBox provides the tools and supports businesses need to take the best things customers say about them, and use them to drive more sales and referrals. StoryBox offers a 10% discount to companies employing veterans of the US Armed Forces.
• Audible is offering one FREE audio book to Beyond the Uniform listeners. You can claim this offer here, and see a list of books recommended by my guests at BeyondTheUniform.io/books

• John Kinyon's list of Feelings & Needs handout
• Other Skills Episodes
  • BTU #86 - So Good They Can't Ignore You
  • BTU #96 - Deep Work
• Books
  • Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life
  • Choosing Peace: New Ways to Communicate to Reduce Stress, Create Connection, and Resolve Conflict
  • Living Nonviolent Communication: Practical Tools to Connect and Communicate Skillfully in Every Situation
• Videos
  • Introduction to Non-Violent Communication - Compassionate Listening
  • The Basics of Non Violent Communication 1.1 (you'll have to get past a truly epic music rendition... push past it :) )
  • Marshall Rosenberg: The Purpose of Nonviolent Communication
• Groups
  • Sign up for John Kinyon's newsletter - he has periodic online courses that are great
  • Search for NVC groups in your local area