What's more important to U.S. foreign policy, human rights or oil and regional alliances? What should take precedence, morality or realpolitik? President Biden's decision not to directly punish Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi raises questions that date to 1945, when FDR became the first U.S. president to meet a Saudi king. Philip Zelikow, who was the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, joins the podcast to discuss balancing human rights with national interests in diplomacy.