In this discussion with Jason James, a few weeks before Mark Carney became Canada’s prime minister—securing nearly 90 percent of votes in the opaque Liberal Party contest to replace Justin Trudeau—I explained why I cautiously explored Carney’s role in international multilaterals and investments where Beijing’s influence is evident, such as the World Economic Forum. Our conversation also touches on my assessment of the growing collision course between Washington and Beijing, which may partly explain President Donald Trump’s wrecking-ball approach to international alliances, supply chains, and diplomacy.

“This is, tragically, like 1938,” I said. “It seems like that’s where we are. And if you understand that, whatever your interest is in the world—if you have some time for geopolitics—I’m not saying the confusion goes away, but the fog starts to lift.”

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