The economy isn't in good shape right now, but this Nobel laureate in economics thinks a post-pandemic upturn is just on the way. On today's show, Paul Krugman, New York Times columnist, distinguished professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center, and the author of (now in paperback) Arguing with Zombies: Economics, Politics, and the Fight for a Better Future (W. W. Norton & Company, 2020) talks about the debt ceiling, the long-term economic picture and more.