Broadway Bound and Beyond

Jon Berger told me about a Dreamgirls audition he thought had ended his chances of working in New York. Years later, he worked with the same percussionist at Cats. The man he thought would remember every mistake didn’t remember the audition at all.

We talked about learning musical styles, preparing for theater work, and the musicians who kept recommending him. Those relationships included conductors, bass players and woodwind players he’d worked with over the years.

Chris Parker’s advice to get his “people chops” together stayed with Jon. He talks about being shy when he was younger, and how touring taught him to work with people he might not otherwise have spent time with.

This is the full conversation, returning as part of the Broadway Bound and Beyond podcast’s Classic Series. It first appeared on April 9, 2022, when the show was the Broadway Drumming 101 Inc. Podcast.

In this episode

• Learning musical styles as languages, including their feel and phrasing.

• Jon’s early training and transition to touring work.

• Preparation, auditions and the pressure to be perfect.

• Meeting and working with musicians beyond your own instrument.

• Chris Parker’s advice about people chops.

Recorded March 10, 2022. Show, tour and endorsement references reflect that time. The original episode is here: April 9, 2022 episode

I wrote Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career to put the working side of a theater career in one place. You can find the book here.

If a musician came to mind while you listened, share the episode with them.

Clayton

Clayton Craddock has spent 26 years in musical theater, most recently as the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball at the Broadhurst Theatre. Now based in Las Vegas, he is the founder of Broadway Bound and Beyond and author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career. He teaches musicians the career skills nobody teaches them.

Video version of Episode 111 of Broadway Bound and Beyond. Touring drummer Marc McDuff (The Wizard of Oz, Legally Blonde, The Cher Show national tours) joins Clayton Craddock. The audio version was released October 20, 2026.

Marc talks about growing up in a Vermont town of 1,200, moving to Seattle with no contacts, the cold email that landed Legally Blonde, playing 20 minutes in total darkness in Scranton, touring China and Saudi Arabia, avoiding drumming injuries, and why saying yes to small gigs builds the trust that leads to touring work.

Chapters

* 00:00 Meet Marc McDuff, and his Seattle Mariners memories

* 02:48 Memphis in Seattle, and the Super Bowl finish I missed for places

* 07:03 Growing up in a Vermont town of 1,200

* 07:41 A hippie drummer dad and a kit in the basement

* 12:37 Skater days and a broken shoulder before college auditions

* 18:53 Auditioning for Berklee, and why he chose Montana

* 22:49 Seattle, regional theater, and the call for The Wizard of Oz tour

* 24:30 Touring China, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain

* 28:01 The stretch of the Great Wall tourists never see

* 32:21 Brooklyn, COVID, and the cold email that landed Legally Blonde

* 34:50 Two years on The Cher Show tour

* 36:16 The night the light blew in Scranton

* 38:30 How he stayed fresh playing the same show for years

* 40:14 Drumming injuries, technique, and Achilles rehab

* 43:40 What nobody tells you about touring

* 46:02 The one thing college drummers should start doing now

* 48:20 Marc's top five drummers

* 53:18 What's next for Marc

The Trust Economy, a live masterclass with Clayton Craddock, is Thursday, October 29 at 5 PM ET / 2 PM PT. Save your seat: https://book.stripe.com/dRmcN51rza2CeXy8YS3Je03

Touring drummer Marc McDuff (The Wizard of Oz, Legally Blonde, The Cher Show national tours) joins Clayton Craddock on Broadway Bound and Beyond, Episode #111.

Marc grew up in a Vermont town of 1,200, studied at the University of Montana, moved to Seattle with no job and no contacts, and got his first national tour through a music director he had worked with in college. He talks about the cold email that landed Legally Blonde, playing 20 minutes in total darkness in Scranton, touring China and Saudi Arabia, avoiding drumming injuries, and why saying yes to every small gig builds the relationships that lead to touring work.

Chapters

* 00:01:33 Meet Marc McDuff, and his Seattle Mariners memories

* 00:04:21 Memphis in Seattle, and the Super Bowl finish I missed for places

* 00:09:27 Growing up in a Vermont town of 1,200

* 00:10:05 A hippie drummer dad and a kit in the basement

* 00:15:01 Skater days and a broken shoulder before college auditions

* 00:21:17 Auditioning for Berklee, and why he chose Montana

* 00:25:13 Seattle, regional theater, and the call for The Wizard of Oz tour

* 00:26:54 Touring China, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain

* 00:30:25 The stretch of the Great Wall tourists never see

* 00:34:45 Brooklyn, COVID, and the cold email that landed Legally Blonde

* 00:37:14 Two years on The Cher Show tour

* 00:38:40 The night the light blew in Scranton

* 00:40:54 How he stayed fresh playing the same show for years

* 00:42:38 Drumming injuries, technique, and Achilles rehab

* 00:46:04 What nobody tells you about touring

* 00:49:13 The one thing college drummers should start doing now

* 00:51:31 Marc's top five drummers

* 00:56:29 What's next for Marc

The Trust Economy, a live masterclass with Clayton Craddock, is Thursday, October 29 at 5 PM ET / 2 PM PT. Save your seat: https://book.stripe.com/dRmcN51rza2CeXy8YS3Je03

More at broadwayboundandbeyond.com

Michael Keller has seen thousands of résumés. He’s contracted more than 100 Broadway shows, including The Lion King, Wicked, and Hamilton, and he told me something every musician should hear:

“I can’t tell you how many fantastic résumés I’ve seen, but the execution on the other side hasn’t been what it needs to be.”

Paper doesn’t get you hired. Being heard does.

In the video version of our conversation, you get to watch Michael tell these stories himself: wheeling his drums through Manhattan in the ‘70s, playing his first Broadway show at 21, and getting the call from Marvin Hamlisch that turned a drummer into one of the most trusted contractors on Broadway.

He also explains how he actually builds a band. He doesn’t just look for a great drummer. He looks for the drummer and bassist who lock in together. He admits that early on he hired great players who weren’t great people, and he paid for it. After that, he narrowed his list to two questions: Can you play, and can you get along with people?

His advice for getting in is simple and demanding. Sub first. Ask to sit in the pit, even when nobody needs you. Never say no. Find every chance to be heard.

Here’s the hard part. You can practice for years, build a strong résumé, and still never get the call. It’s not because you can’t play. It’s because the people doing the hiring don’t know you, haven’t heard you, or don’t trust you yet. Every month you wait for talent alone to open the door, someone else who built those relationships gets the chair.

That’s exactly what I’ll be teaching live in The Trust Economy, a masterclass on how working musicians really get hired: how to get heard, how to build trust with the people who make the calls, and how to become the name that comes up when a chair opens.

Thursday, October 29, at 5 PM Eastern. Can’t make it live? Your seat includes lifetime access to the replay.

👉 Save your seat for The Trust Economy

Watch the full video above, and if it hits home, forward it to a musician who’s still waiting on their résumé to do the work.

About Clayton Craddock

Clayton Craddock has spent 26 years in musical theater, most recently as the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball at the Broadhurst Theatre. Now based in Las Vegas, he is the founder of Broadway Bound and Beyond, host of the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast, and author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career. He teaches musicians the career skills nobody teaches them.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball. He has also played tick, tick…BOOM! and The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbed on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

He has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards, and has performed with Chuck Berry, Ben E. King, Kristin Chenoweth, and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com

When I landed my first Broadway chair on Memphis, one name kept coming up: Michael Keller. He has contracted more than 100 Broadway shows, including The Lion King, Wicked, The Book of Mormon, and Hamilton. Before that, he was a drummer from Queens wheeling his kit through Manhattan.

The Beatles got him started. He was subbing off-Broadway at 19, played his first Broadway show, Promises, Promises, in 1970, toured with Dionne Warwick, and spent 15 years as Marvin Hamlisch’s drummer and conductor. Hamlisch opened the door to contracting, and the 1994 Barbra Streisand tour changed everything. Nobody mentored him. He figured it out himself.

What I love most about this conversation is how simple his hiring philosophy is: “I want a great player who can get along with people.” That’s the whole list. He also explains why your job changes once a show opens. Most of the audience is seeing it for the first time, so your job becomes keeping it fresh and consistent every night.

His advice for breaking in: sub first, be persistent, ask to sit in the pit, never say no, and find every chance to be heard. A great resume won’t get you hired. Your playing will.

He also tells the story of hearing Steve Gadd for the first time and choosing inspiration over quitting. Every musician faces that choice eventually.

Michael’s message is the heart of what I teach: talent gets you noticed, trust gets you hired. Join me live for The Trust Economy masterclass on October 29 at 5 PM Eastern.

👉 Save your seat here

About Clayton Craddock

Clayton Craddock has spent 26 years in musical theater, most recently as the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball at the Broadhurst Theatre. Now based in Las Vegas, he is the founder of Broadway Bound and Beyond, host of the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast, and author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career. He teaches musicians the career skills nobody teaches them.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball. He has also played tick, tick…BOOM! and The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbed on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

He has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards, and has performed with Chuck Berry, Ben E. King, Kristin Chenoweth, and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com

Tanner Schut moved to New York with close to $25,000 saved.

Almost all of it was gone before his career caught up.

That’s the part nobody tells you. You can have the chops. You can have the savings. But if you don’t know how the scene works, the money goes fast and nobody’s calling.

Broadway Bound and Beyond is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Tanner knew how to play. He grew up in Oregon and Idaho on Steve Gadd, Jim Keltner, and Roger Hawkins. He landed a cruise ship gig in February 2020, then watched the world shut down. He went back out anyway and spent three years on the ships, sight-reading shows in front of live audiences almost every night.

What he didn’t know was how to network. So on his last contract, he started listening to the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast to learn how people really get the call.

Today he’s the drummer on the Book of Mormon national tour.

“I moved there with a lot in my savings and it was amazing how quickly that all disappeared.” — Tanner Schut

In this episode

* The 30-minute, 55-style audition video that got him a call the next morning

* How one message to Jordan Rose turned into his first gig in the city

* Playing Into the Woods and Annie on a cajon for children’s theater, and why it mattered

* How an audition that didn’t work out still put his name in front of the Book of Mormon team

* His first-90-days plan for anyone moving to New York. It starts with “get a job.”

Listen before you move. Your bank account will thank you.

The audio came out earlier this month. If you missed it, you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. The full video is above and on our YouTube channel.

Tanner’s story shows how the next gig usually comes from the last person you met. On October 29th I’m going live to go deeper on exactly that. More soon.

Follow Tanner on Instagram: Tanner Schut

About Clayton Craddock

Clayton Craddock has spent 26 years in musical theater, most recently as the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball at the Broadhurst Theatre. Now based in Las Vegas, he is the founder of Broadway Bound and Beyond, host of the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast, and author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career. He teaches musicians the career skills nobody teaches them.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball. He has also played tick, tick…BOOM! and The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbed on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

He has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards, and has performed with Chuck Berry, Ben E. King, Kristin Chenoweth, and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com

This week’s podcast guest is Tanner Schut, and he is currently out on tour with The Book of Mormon. When we recorded, Tanner was actually on a layoff. The tour was sitting in Toronto dealing with a musicians’ union situation, so the whole band got a few weeks off before picking back up.

Tanner joined Book of Mormon mid run, which is its own story. The drummer before him left to rejoin Blue Man Group, and Tanner got the call after a chain of connections that started with an audition for the Water for Elephants tour that didn’t even work out. He made an impression anyway, and when the Book of Mormon music director went looking for a drummer, his name got passed along.

He grew up in Corvallis, Oregon until he was eleven, then finished growing up in Boise, Idaho. He picked up drums in middle school, almost by accident, and by his teenage years he’d fallen hard for the studio legends: Steve Gadd, Peter Erskine, Vinnie Colaiuta, Roger Hawkins, Jim Keltner, Jim Gordon, Steve Jordan, Steve Smith, Steve Ferrone. You can hear all of that in his playing, honestly. I told him as much before we even started recording.

Tanner went to the University of Idaho, where he bounced between social work, music, and eventually landed on a journalism and broadcasting degree, which he crammed into two and a half years. From there he spent three years working on cruise ships, mostly in house orchestras backing production shows and guest entertainers, before making his way to New York and subletting a spot in Bed-Stuy. That’s also where our paths first crossed. He found this podcast during his last cruise ship contract and started listening to figure out how the New York music scene actually worked.

What we got into

This was a genuinely great conversation, and it went in directions I didn’t expect:

* The Water for Elephants audition that didn’t land him the gig, but landed him the one that mattered more

* How he talked his way onto his first cruise ship job with an audition tape most people would call excessive: fifty five different styles, chopped together into one continuous take

* What a real week on a cruise ship actually looks like, and how close he got to burning out after a nine month contract

* The honest version of what it takes to break into the cruise ship world, agencies and all

* What he’d do differently moving to New York, after watching his savings disappear faster than he ever expected

* The strange, small-world way a family connection led him to another drummer in New York before he’d even unpacked

Tanner stood up for the entire interview because he couldn’t sit still, which somehow felt like the most fitting way to talk to a touring drummer. Nobody in this business sits still for long, and this conversation is proof of that.

Tanner Schut moved to New York with a decent cushion in his savings account, figuring he’d land a wedding band gig or two within a few weeks to keep the bills covered while he found his footing. That’s not what happened. Those gigs take months to break into, not weeks, and nobody tells you that part until you’re already living it. His savings drained a lot faster than he expected, and there was a real stretch where going back to the cruise ships looked like the only way to stay afloat.

Tanner’s on the Book of Mormon tour now. This clip is about the part before that, the part where the city doesn’t care how good you are and rent still shows up every month whether the gigs do or not.

Full conversation with Tanner coming soon to the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast.

Clayton Craddock was most recently the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball on Broadway at the Broadhurst Theatre. He is also the founder of Broadway Drumming 101 and the author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball, with additional credits spanning tick, tick…BOOM!, The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbing on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

Clayton has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards. He has performed with artists ranging from Chuck Berry and Ben E. King to Kristin Chenoweth and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com

Joel “Jay-Ray” Anderson is a drummer that was recently touring with The Wiz.

I caught up with him mid-tour. We talked about growing up in a musical family in Fort Lauderdale, learning drums from YouTube and his oldest brother, coming up through the Dillard High School drumline, studying music at Broward College and Florida Memorial University, landing his first tour (Pretty Woman) the week after graduation, and transitioning to The Wiz through a network built one relationship at a time. We got into gospel drumming history, drumline battles, a month spent touring Japan, and why networking, not just chops, is what actually opens doors.

Jay-Ray comes from a house full of musicians. His father plays guitar and sings; his oldest brother plays drums and keys; another brother sings, plays drums, and plays saxophone; and a third brother plays bass, guitar, and keys while producing. Jay-Ray’s own introduction to the drums came at six years old, when his oldest brother sat him down in front of a kit for the first time. By twelve, he had his own Sonor drum set, a gift from that same brother, and was already teaching himself by copying drumming videos on YouTube.

Jay-Ray attended Dillard Center for the Arts, where he played in two jazz bands, marched snare in the wind orchestra and drumline, and got pulled onto snare drum as a freshman after impressing section leader Javon with a string of paradiddles. He talks about the discipline instilled by band directors Christopher Dorsey and Dr. Sheldon McClain, learning traditional grip for the first time, and the intensity of real drumline battles.

Jay-Ray studied at Broward College (Associate’s in Music Performance) before transferring to Florida Memorial University for his bachelor’s degree, where he played under percussion director Taurus Lovely, a 25-year Broadway touring veteran (including Tina Turner: The Musical) who would later become the person who got Jay-Ray his first tour. Jay-Ray’s first trip to New York came in 2018, when Dillard’s jazz band won the Essentially Ellington competition at Jazz at Lincoln Center, the same trip where he first saw a Broadway show, Ain’t Too Proud.

The day after Jay-Ray graduated from Florida Memorial in May 2023, Taurus Lovely called with an audition opportunity for the Pretty Woman national tour. Jay-Ray recorded four songs from the show, landed the gig, and was in rehearsals in Syracuse, New York within months. He talks candidly about the learning curve of running click tracks and Ableton on the road, getting walked through the system by original drummer Kevin Maynard, and the parts of touring nobody warns you about, like setting up and breaking down your own kit on travel days. Over roughly two years with the show, he toured extensively across the U.S. and spent a month performing in Japan (Shinjuku, Tachikawa, Kyoto, and Osaka).

Jay-Ray’s move to The Wiz came through his network: Sammy Merandino and Quentin “Q” Robinson recommended him, and MD Michael Aarons brought him in. Jay-Ray left Pretty Woman in Wichita and, within a week, was in New York starting rehearsals, spending his off-hours studying original drummer Trevor Holder’s book and comparing the Broadway cast recording to the touring arrangement. He also shares how he first met Q Robinson years earlier, showing up at Hamilton’s closing show in Fort Lauderdale just to introduce himself.

Asked what he’d tell a high school or college drummer chasing a career like his, Jay-Ray’s answer is simple: networking. Every opportunity in his career, from Pretty Woman to The Wiz to this very podcast episode, traces back to a relationship someone else made on his behalf.

Where to Find Jay-Ray

* Instagram & TikTok: @jay.ray04

* Facebook: Joel Anderson

* Email: [email protected]

Resources

* Free: How to Land a Broadway Gig Roadmap — subscribe to Broadway Drumming 101 (free or paid) and grab it at broadwayboundbook.com/roadmap

* The Broadway Sub Playbook ($7.99) — available at signaturebrandworks.com

* Broadway Drumming 101 merch (backpacks, tees, hats, mugs, and more) — signaturebrandworks.com

* Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career by Clayton Craddock — out now

Clayton Craddock was most recently the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball on Broadway at the Broadhurst Theatre. He is also the founder of Broadway Drumming 101 and the author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball, with additional credits spanning tick, tick…BOOM!, The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbing on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

Clayton has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards. He has performed with artists ranging from Chuck Berry and Ben E. King to Kristin Chenoweth and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com

Two months ago, Mackenna Tolfa was a guest on Episode 107 of the Broadway Drumming 101 podcast.

She told us what it took to become the first featured female drummer for the Blue Man Group World Tour. Broadway national tours. Mean Girls. The Book of Mormon. Twenty plus countries. A career built one relationship, one gig, one yes at a time.

Now she’s returning the favor.

On August 27, I’m the guest at her final masterclass of the summer. We’re not talking about how to land your first Broadway chair, we’re talking about what happens after. How relationships open doors that auditions never will. Why versatility keeps you working when one show closes. What financial resilience actually looks like when your paycheck depends on a contract that could end tomorrow. This is the part of the business almost nobody talks about.

$5 gets you in the door. Sign up here today: https://calendly.com/mackennatolfamusic/clayton-craddock-masterclass/2026-08-27T17:00:00-04:00

Spots are filling up fast. See you there!

Clayton Craddock is the drummer for Cats: The Jellicle Ball on Broadway at the Broadhurst Theatre. He is also the founder of Broadway Drumming 101 and the author of Broadway Bound and Beyond: A Musician’s Guide to Building a Theater Career.

His Broadway credits include Memphis, Lady Day at Emerson’s Bar and Grill, Ain’t Too Proud, and Cats: The Jellicle Ball, with additional credits spanning tick, tick…BOOM!, The Hippest Trip: The Soul Train Musical, and subbing on Rent, Motown, Evita, Avenue Q, and the Hadestown tour.

Clayton has appeared on The View, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, The Today Show, and the Tony Awards. He has performed with artists ranging from Chuck Berry and Ben E. King to Kristin Chenoweth and Norm Lewis.

www.claytoncraddock.com