Bunnie Huang is a well known researcher and expert in hardware security. In 2016 he wrote a research paper with Snowden about how to tell whether your phone is spying on you. He wants to eventually build a phone with hardware you can trust. This is no easy feat, considering that the parts in our phones come from all over the world and pass through hundreds of hands before reaching our doorstep.

We chatted about phone security and the weird and startling ways that governments can hack your devices.

Video version of this podcast is available at Naomibrockwell.com/memberships