An expert in European foreign and security policy, SVEN BISCOP tells Mohammad Asif Khan in an audio interview that under United States (US) President Donald Trump, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) can work as a military alliance only if Europe builds up its own strength, making it an “alliance of equals”. Edited excerpts: Europe has talked about taking greater responsibility for its own defence for many years, but real rearmament seems to be happening only now. What fundamentally changed after the war in Ukraine that finally pushed Europe from intent into action? The first thing that changed is the war, of course — the large-scale 2022 invasion by Russia of Ukraine — which many European decision-makers see as a direct threat not only to Ukraine, but also to Europe itself. Because the assessment here is that if Russia gets away with the impression that they are allowed to do what they want in Ukraine, that they will not stop there and select another target. And unless Russia is halted in Ukraine, we ourselves will be threatened. So, that required really ramping up our defence industrial capacity, first of all, to support Ukraine and also to strengthen our own defences. But added to that is then the new strategy of the second Trump administration, which early on already in February this year (2025), they sent (Pete) Hegseth, Secretary of Defense at the time (and) now Secretary for War. He came here and said, you have to take ownership of your own conventional defence because the US is going to focus on China. Basically, this has really undermined trust in NATO and the collective security guarantee of NATO. So, the conclusion is Europeans must be able, if necessary, to deter any aggression by themselves or if deterrence fails, to defend themselves at least in conventional terms. Is Europe's current rearmament best understood as a short term response to the Ukraine war? Or does it represent a deeper structural shift in how European governments think about war, deterrence and military power? The direct cause certainly is the Ukraine war. At the same time, we are seeing a structural change in our alliance with the US. Until now, a basic assumption of all of our strategies of NATO, of the European Union (EU), of our individual states, was that the US is an ally. So, in the end we will always be on the same side. And since the Trump administration published their National Security Strategy, that is no longer the case. In a way, the US is now a normal country to us. We will agree on some things and disagree on others, but you can no longer automatically assume that the US will always come to our aid. That is my assessment. And if such a basic assumption of your strategy is no longer valid, you have to really revisit your entire strategy. But has that sunk in with all of our decision-makers? That's another question. Some of them initially reacted in my way — a very timid way — saying: Oh well, no, in the end the US still loves us, so it's not so serious, and so on. I think that's a wrong reaction. What we see in the security strategy is the explicit aim to do away with the EU, to cultivate resistance against the EU. It is even literally said by supporting extreme right parties. So this US administration can hardly be called an ally of Europe. So, that's a fundamental shift. Some people may argue that there may be a new policy after this current administration, which is true. But we don't know who will be the next president. And President Trump has more than three years to go. So, this will not just stop tomorrow. Where do Europe's most serious capability gaps lie today and how difficult will they be to close? Our most serious problem is the so-called strategic enablers. We have large armed forces, but they have not been const