When you view something as a competitive opportunity, you look at it totally differently - how can we go above and beyond? How can we get a real angle on this? How can we bring people with us along this process?

We’ve had a bit of a focus or mini-series on biodiversity and nature over the last few episodes of Can Marketing Save the Planet because it is so so critical that we start to understand, talk about and most importantly take action in reducing, removing and restoring the damage that we (business and society) are doing to the environment.

So, we were delighted when Gavin and Rob over at Pinwheel agreed to come back on the podcast to talk about the solutions and actions that are available today that businesses can make part of their sustainability agendas, and the compelling business case this type of investment can build across, acquisition, retention, collaboration, competitive opportunity, sales and profit. As Gavin says, these projects give, “access beyond value chain mitigation projects which repair and restore our climate and ecosystems.”

The damage that has been done is staggering, there has been a 69% reduction in living species since 1970 globally and, in the UK we currently only protect 3% of land 8% of seas, well behind the 30% global target needed by 2030 set out at COP15.

Biodiversity and climate are not mutually exclusive – as with everything it’s all interconnected.

Tune in and listen as we cover:

The opportunity for brands to really get involved and for marketers to be able to tell the stories of the projects their organisations support as well as that all important progress.

·The fact business can take action now, we can start to reduce the damage, remove the legacy damage and, restore habitats immediately.

Consumer demand, investor demand and changing regulations will force business to do this eventually, so why not be a pacesetter.

Why investing in biodiversity is a competitive opportunity.

How biodiversity is different to carbon in so many ways, yet they are so inextricably linked and addressing one helps the other and vice versa.

·Why B2B organisations are moving quickly on this.

The data and insights that come from investing in biodiversity projects builds a compelling business case across the board.

Enjoy…

For more information about Pinwheel - see here.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“We are totally dependent on biodiversity to survive – this is not a ‘greeny’ concern, this is an everyone concern.”

Given nature and biodiversity is SO important to the future of humanity, we wanted to dive deeper into this important area. Following our recent episodes with the brilliant Alexandra Pimor, who works with organisations to give nature a voice and a seat at the boardroom table, we jumped at the chance to chat with Dr Sam Sinclair, a conservationist and expert on biodiversity.

Sam starts with explaining what biodiversity is, and just how totally dependent we are on biodiversity to survive.

There are more people and cattle than on earth today than there are wild animals – which is terrifying. We’ve reached a critical point where nature can no longer be a nice thing to look after. And we discuss how biodiversity loss poses a real threat to humankind.

“The biodiversity field has absolutely exploded in the last year and companies all over the place are now questioning and thinking about this in really serious terms, asking what is my businesses impact on biodiversity and what can I do to reverse it?”

As you’ll hear we talk about developing a biodiversity strategy, and importantly how organisations can take action and make different choices. A key point Sam raises is that, “biodiversity is different to carbon as there is no single metric of measure…it’s very context specific.” He goes on to explain, “what a good biodiversity strategy should do is take all the frustrating complexity and make it not frustrating…here’s how it all comes together and this is where we are and this is what good looks like.”

Sam talks about the shift he is seeing from organisations moving away from individual projects, towards holistic programs and it’s at this point we talk about how for marketing this presents an incredible opportunity. Why? Because, people actually care about biodiversity. “Everybody has a story, everybody has a personal connection to biodiversity. This gives marketers those opportunities to craft narratives and people want to do the right thing, which is share by organisational culture.” Who doesn’t want to tell engaging stories which resonate and capture people’s attention, inspiring them to want to be part of the solution?”|

We ask Sam about tree planting and the context and effectiveness around this well-known initiative. He explains that it is an important element, but it is a small piece of the solution. “Tree planting has great PR so people can get it, it is one unit of nature and they can see it. People don’t look at grasslands and soils in the same way, understandably. Tree planting captures the imagination.”

Sam shares so much wisdom and insight in this episode, it really is one for everyone so we’d encourage you to listen, and share no matter what sector, industry or role you are in.

Enjoy…

For more information about Sam and Biodiversify - see here.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Are you using your career to fight for the future? 

In this episode we talk with Claire Osborne who has a fascinating job as a sustainability career coach. Claire works with people who are increasingly looking at where and how they work, questioning the role they can play as climate change, climate action and sustainability continue to rise up the world’s agenda.  

Claire talks about the challenges both business and people are facing and the research from David Graeber’s work around ‘bullshit’ jobs. Claire tell us that research reveals that, “37% of all roles are done by people who themselves rate them as having no positive impact in society”. She goes on to explain, there are box tickers, duct tapers, flunkies and many more categories, all of which open up many questions about the roles we spend most of our time doing.

Claire shares the trends she is seeing such as people defining their own roles and setting their own purpose in work, as well as asking, how one applies the role to drive meaningful impact.

Claire works with people who are trying to change the status quo, and shares with us some of the challenges that come with doing that and what you can do to feel supported, capable and less isolated in the sustainability space.

We also talk about how to influence and build the business case for change and Claire shares some key principles around this and things people can be doing such as, “1. Seed-bombing, 2. Doing your research and listening for certain things within the audiences you are talking – what are their aspirations, ambivalences do they have, and what anxieties do they have? And 3. Listening in the moment, to find the 10% that the other person is right and explore that.”

We dive into effective communication skills and the need to listen more, to share and have conversations, as opposed to purley broadcasting and talking ‘at’ our audiences. Claire shares her view on marketing and the skills Marketers have that can be put to great use in the sustainability space, explaining… “there is a ballsy-ness and incisiveness, which we could all do with applying.”

Claire believes, “Marketers can use their knowledge, the insights and research they have access to, to create clear, rather than clever messaging to help with understanding, and to bring in a rigour that doesn’t overwhelm, but sells the next action, the next thing to do.”

There’s a lot of advice Claire shares, and she busts open some of the most prominent myths in the sustainability space, giving a wealth of practical things for listeners to take away from this episode.

Enjoy and any questions… simply get in touch.

From Claire’s website:

Working in sustainability is tough - the scale and urgency of the climate crisis can make it tough to keep moving forward with energy & focus. Frustration, exhaustion, uncertainty & overwhelm drain energy and make it harder to bring your best thinking to the challenge. One thing is for sure though; we need experienced Sustainability Leaders on the pitch. Your expertise is essential to steer the debate and drive action. Use the latest in neuroscience and behavioural psychology to set you up to be a force for change on climate.

If you feel like you want to speak to Claire, you can find more on her website here: https://www.claireosborne.co.uk/

Part 2 - “We have to find the courage to do something different…”

Following on from Episode 1, we delve further into the role of law in sustainability. 2023 saw a marked rise in legal cases being brought against businesses and governments, as well as the tightening of regulations and guidelines around not only what businesses can do, but what they can say.

The reality Alexandra explains is “the law takes time; for case law we need the means, will and resources to bring cases forward and for legislation we need governments to listen.” Earth Law Centre supports the law, “very rarely will the law be the real generator of change, for example, the EU Green Deal – the law won’t drive change at the core, the law is what will influence change, it will force it. The law is a tool, and it can be a carrot and it can be a stick.”

This raises a big question for business, ‘are you going to be a pacesetter or are you going to wait to be regulated?’ We definitely need more pacesetters.

Alexandra talks about “Four circles of service” looking at nature on the board, in professional practice, across project development and within cultural evolution, and a need to drive the real change towards an eco-centric approach and way of thinking. She explains that, “nature governance, is about responsibility, accountability and wisdom – we have all the knowledge that we can ever want, we have access to data, expertise and technology and we know what we have to do and stop doing – the question is, do we do that?”

We naturally progress into the role of leadership and the need for honesty to make the right decisions to do something good. And, also the role Marketers play, and the need to be more responsible when it comes to the stories they tell and how we need to break away from some of the conditioned thinking so that we get creative and use our imaginations again. Marketing’s role in Nature governance is still very much a concept, but we need to be open to it and start to think differently.

The need for a shift in consciousness is now. We discuss how ‘you’ can be the change and the need to have the right conversations to grow our understanding to get to the experience you want to create. Alexandra poses another big question, which we’ll leave you with, “what needs to change today in order to achieve the vision for tomorrow?” - We’d love to hear your thoughts!

For more information about Nature Governance and the great work Alexandra and her team champion see here:

And for more about Faith in Nature and putting nature on the board, see here:

Enjoy…

“What does business have to do with nature?

The next two episodes of Can Marketing Save the Planet go DEEP! We suggest you wrap up warm, pop in your headphones, and go for a wintry walk as we catch up with Alexandra Pimor, Director of Nature Governance at the Earth Law Centre. Despite preconceptions, we (humans) are part of nature, we are not above it and we need it – it is indeed our greatest ally. We talk to Alexandra about how reimagining and reengineering our systems from a nature conscious perspective and delve into her work, looking at how we offer nature a voice, a place and a stake in our systems – for nature to be both heard and represented.

Alexandra talks about a responsibility based framework - “where there is a right, there is a responsibility.” We discuss how humans and business can no longer ignore the damage we are doing and how we need to take action to address the situation collectively. As Alexandra says, “if we give nature rights, we are responsible for making sure those rights are not only upheld but understood.” Climate change may be the big headline, but climate change is a result of the loss of nature and biodiversity.

Alexandra told us about her amazing work putting nature on the board, when it comes to, “tackling the temperature of the planet and addressing the core”. She believes, “there are enough of us out there to do it, but we need more cooperation and collaboration with each other and it is not a linear approach we need to address or take, it’s a systemic one.” 

We discuss how humans treat every earth community on the planet as a commodity, how the current systems would not exist if humans had not thought them up, and why we need to look at human behaviour and motivation to understand why we behave as we do. There is a fundamental need to let the natural systems do their thing and, there is a huge opportunity to rebuild these systems and get back to basics, being responsible human beings.

Alexandra talks about the practicalities of how business can become more conscious, and makes the point that business is 100% reliant on nature. She talks about the work she did with the brand Faith in Nature, giving nature a voice, and the process they went through to make that happen. Alexandra shared the 3 critical questions which had to be answered:

Legally - Can this be done within the legal framework of the UK – and what kind / type of director can nature be?

The articles of association for the organisation (structural framework) – what needs to change? What do they (Faith in Nature), need to do? What are their obligations?

Culture - What does the governance and practice on the ground actually look like? 

Answering each of those questions and finding a way led Faith in Nature to be the first organisation to legally put nature on the board, giving nature a voice and a vote, ensuring better and more informed decisions are made.

This was a truly inspiring discussion and one which couldn’t stop at just one episode! Tune in and go for that walk and who knows… maybe you’ll be considering putting nature on your board too.

For more information about Nature Governance and the great work Alexandra and her team champion see here:

And for more about Faith in Nature and putting nature on the board, see here:

Enjoy… Part 2 to follow on 24th Dec ;)

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Marketing is the management science of empathy - we need deep empathy if we want to take humanity and our economy through this massive change that we are facing.”

Marketing will not save the world, but we will not save the world without marketing.

In this episode we talk with Nicolas Lambert, author of, “Can Marketing Save the World”, (we know… a title very close to our hearts) and no surprises that it’s a book all about marketing and sustainability, An experienced and passionate marketer, he was CEO of Fairtrade Belgium, marketing executive at Unilever, AB InBev, Heineken and BBDO - and more recently, author and lecturer. We loved delving into the practicalities of sustainable marketing with Nicolas.

“Sustainability and marketing, two things that don’t work together, but they should and now have to.” Nicolas places marketing as the engine of an organisation and explains the opportunity for Marketers is to “broaden the scope of interaction”. Expanding their view to include the broader stakeholder chain so they don’t leave themselves with a large blind spot in their strategies.

When it comes to people, planet and profit or as Nicolas calls it, “the ménage à trios” he believes this needs to be at the core of what Marketers do, but acknowledges the challenges and underlying tensions that exist in the relationship between organisations and their stakeholders as we look for solutions and balance.

We covered so much in this episode with Nicolas as he shared his insights, experience and knowledge on the role of regulation, the need for Marketers to support their organisations’ sustainable agendas and, that all important missing sense of urgency.

Of course, we couldn’t talk sustainable marketing without discussing greenwashing which Nicolas believes, “most of the time it’s not because of cynicism of companies, it’s not because they want to be seen as greener than they are and manipulative, I think people are just being clumsy. They have a lack of knowledge and are applying traditional marketing tactics to sustainability, and that doesn’t work, and then they are surprised – because they just don’t get it.” Once again the need for Marketers to be more aware and educate themselves couldn’t be clearer.

So, tune in and check out resources such as Nicolas’s framework, the “fourteen levers to make marketing more sustainable.” he mentions which can be found here. (And don’t be fooled by the title of the slide - the document is in English ;)).

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“We need people to communicate in a way that gives all of us an ability to move forward in a positive direction.”

The built environment – it’s a massive subject, a massive industry and a massive contributor of emissions, (buildings and construction are responsible for approx. 40% of global energy related and carbon dioxide emission). There is a lot of work to be done and the challenge requires collaboration, knowledge and action at scale.

We had the pleasure of talking to Brigette Clements, strategic lead at The Architects Climate Action Network (ACAN) and managing director at Lowkey Architecture and Developments. With both a technical and creative background, Brigette works with, “impact driven investors on projects simply, that I believe in, and that hit the highest metrics of sustainability.”

We wanted to explore the role ACAN plays and the work they do in trying to drive “change”. Brigette explained they have three main aims, 1) decarbonise now, 2) ecological regeneration and 3) cultural transformation. The focus of ACAN is across a broad range of issues, from the circular economy through to existing buildings and retrofit and climate literacy and professional standards. Big on action and output, their work delivers resources, knowledge and awareness across their network and beyond (you don’t have to be in the built environment to be a part of ACAN and their work).

With policies, trends and needs changing in the built environment faster than ever before, the need to be educated, aware and up to date is critical. But, as Brigette points out, it’s one thing sharing how great you are on social media, but, “nobody is really coming out to talk about their failures or their lack of knowledge which is something we need. We need to build on the knowledge of others, learn from the mistakes of others.” Something Brigette is challenging as it slows progress. And a common theme from many of our podcast guests - calling for shared, lived experience.

A highly complex industry we discuss the issues, the politics, the activism, the challenges and the opportunities. Brigette shares her knowledge, experience and views on what is happening and what needs to happen. A firm believer that communication and the stories we tell are some of the strongest tools we have, Brigette adds, “we are designers and we are problem solvers, we are thinkers, we’ve got all the tools around us, we’ve got a lot of knowledge, we just need a bit of energy and collective action to make it happen.”

Whether you’re a professional in the built environment or a citizen who lives in it, tune in to hear for yourself why it’s critical that we understand what is happening and take responsibility in driving progress towards a more sustainable future.

More information about ACAN can be found here. Where you’ll find information about their work and meet-ups.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“There’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point”

Making a return to the podcast, we caught up with Duncan Meisel, founder of Clean Creatives, so we could talk about the newly published F-List.

For anyone unfamiliar, Clean Creatives, is a movement of advertisers, PR professionals, and their clients cutting ties with fossil fuels.The F-List is a body of research and report which documents agencies who choose to continue working with fossil fuel organisations despite the scientific consensus that what they do is destroying the planet. It really doesn’t get much clearer than that.

We dive straight into this conversation finding out what has been happening with the Clean Creative campaign, its progress and of course, that infamous F-List.

Duncan reveals that over 800 agencies have now taken the pledge including their first large agency (over a 1000 employees). When looking at the agencies who have made the bold commitment no to work with fossil fuel organisations vs, those who are on the F-List, Duncan points out, “there’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point” – the F-list is just highlighting to people those agencies who are choosing to ignore all the warnings.

The F-List has evolved over the last 3 years, with more focus on the data, the sources and as Duncan explains, they were able to do both a global and multilingual search this time. They also had a much shorter reporting timeframe, “this year we tried to be really precise and look for agencies that were doing work right now in 2022 and 2023, the hottest years in human history.”

We discuss the fact that despite all the evidence, the F-List agencies continue to try and defend their work, and the role the 800+ agencies committed to the Clean Creatives pledge have in telling their stories about change and progress. The more we share our work on the good stuff, the solutions and the opportunities around that the more we can work together to move away from those things that do the most harm.

This conversation is one not to miss, whether you work for an agency or with agencies, it’s important to be aware of the F-List and the work that Clean Creatives are doing.

For more information about Clean Creatives - https://cleancreatives.org/

And if you catch this podcast in time to join Duncan and the Clean Creatives team in London for their Happy Hour on the 31st October - there’s an invitation and more details to that event here.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Carrying on from Part 1, this episode jumps straight into the tactical side, where Caroline shares her views on the opportunities around digital, making the point that, “listening for a business is such a wealth of value which can be done in an automated way, and is the way forward to be commercially successful.”

Moving on to metrics and measures an area with many questions but not enough answers yet, we talked about how we have to go beyond the corporate metrics of revenue and profit. Whilst these are still important metrics, the need to broaden out what we measure and what ‘good performance’ looks like is critical. Caroline explains that influence was a big deal at IBM, influence and reputation metrics are valuable both from a B2B and B2C perspective. But….and this is important, Caroline points out in when it comes to why people buy from and engage with you, “the big challenge for marketers is, those reasons have to be authentic, they have to be real, there has to be credibility behind them.”

The ability to look broadly, do the right thing and meet all the points of value creation are what make marketing and indeed this conversation so interesting. Caroline shares some top actions she believes marketers need to be doing and of course we ask her that all important question, ‘Can marketing save the planet?’ This is not one to be missed, it will leave you with so much to think about and take forward, so tune in, listen and tell us what you think…

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“There are four questions every business needs good answers to. Why would anyone want to buy from us? Why would anyone want to work for us? Why would anyone want to invest in us? Why would anyone allow us to operate in their community, society?”

It’s another two-parter and in this episode (Part 1), we dive into the role of CMOs and leaders when it comes to the sustainability agenda. We were joined by Caroline Taylor OBE, former CMO for IBMs international business and a huge advocate for ‘adding value in many other places in the world.’

Already aware of sustainability back in the early 2000’s Caroline got really focused in the mid 2000’s when IBM was doing work in ‘green IT’ and 2% of global carbon emissions were attributed to IT. Caroline explains, “I was very struck with the notion…but what about the other 98% and how we might use technology to mitigate that?” It was at that point she fell down the sustainability rabbit hole and started looking into how IBM could become a greater part of the solution whilst at the same time, find new ways to differentiate.

As well as looking for answers externally, Caroline talks at depth about the need to changes hearts and minds on sustainability internally, and raises the important point that to do this effectively requires conversations which focus on, “why this is a business opportunity as opposed to being a really important thing to do.” Caroline explains, “learning how to shift my focus from here’s a brilliant marketing idea, to here’s a brilliant business idea that’s going to make us money, our shareholders will love us, but it’s going to be tapping into something that is really important societally at the same time, is a win, win, win.” And, when it comes to stakeholder engagement we have to understand that, “enlightenment is important but the self-interest is real – we have to think about all of our stakeholder and what’s in it for them”

The need for leaders to recognise and see the opportunity in sustainability is so critical to balancing the triple bottom line and protecting the sustainability of their business. This episode explores the need for investment, the shift away from short-term thinking and strategising and the very real, tough choices and prioritisation that organisations need to make. Caroline also shares her insights into the role B2B marketing and business plays….for marketing she says it’s about “taking all the smart marketers that care and taking them outside of their day jobs to figure out how to use all those marketing skills to educate and engage and empower people to make better choices.” And, we couldn’t agree more, the case for education and awareness and the significant role and opportunity marketers and leaders have really shines through in this episode.

So, tune in and listen, and don’t forget there’s Part 2 in two weeks time where we continue the conversation, delving into the tactical side of marketing, the importance of listening and the challenge of what to measure when it comes to value creation around driving a more sustainable marketing agenda.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.