Can Marketing Save the Planet?

“There’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point”

Making a return to the podcast, we caught up with Duncan Meisel, founder of Clean Creatives, so we could talk about the newly published F-List.

For anyone unfamiliar, Clean Creatives, is a movement of advertisers, PR professionals, and their clients cutting ties with fossil fuels.The F-List is a body of research and report which documents agencies who choose to continue working with fossil fuel organisations despite the scientific consensus that what they do is destroying the planet. It really doesn’t get much clearer than that.

We dive straight into this conversation finding out what has been happening with the Clean Creative campaign, its progress and of course, that infamous F-List.

Duncan reveals that over 800 agencies have now taken the pledge including their first large agency (over a 1000 employees). When looking at the agencies who have made the bold commitment no to work with fossil fuel organisations vs, those who are on the F-List, Duncan points out, “there’s really no way you can say you don’t know this is a dangerous activity at this point” – the F-list is just highlighting to people those agencies who are choosing to ignore all the warnings.

The F-List has evolved over the last 3 years, with more focus on the data, the sources and as Duncan explains, they were able to do both a global and multilingual search this time. They also had a much shorter reporting timeframe, “this year we tried to be really precise and look for agencies that were doing work right now in 2022 and 2023, the hottest years in human history.”

We discuss the fact that despite all the evidence, the F-List agencies continue to try and defend their work, and the role the 800+ agencies committed to the Clean Creatives pledge have in telling their stories about change and progress. The more we share our work on the good stuff, the solutions and the opportunities around that the more we can work together to move away from those things that do the most harm.

This conversation is one not to miss, whether you work for an agency or with agencies, it’s important to be aware of the F-List and the work that Clean Creatives are doing.

For more information about Clean Creatives - https://cleancreatives.org/

And if you catch this podcast in time to join Duncan and the Clean Creatives team in London for their Happy Hour on the 31st October - there’s an invitation and more details to that event here.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Carrying on from Part 1, this episode jumps straight into the tactical side, where Caroline shares her views on the opportunities around digital, making the point that, “listening for a business is such a wealth of value which can be done in an automated way, and is the way forward to be commercially successful.”

Moving on to metrics and measures an area with many questions but not enough answers yet, we talked about how we have to go beyond the corporate metrics of revenue and profit. Whilst these are still important metrics, the need to broaden out what we measure and what ‘good performance’ looks like is critical. Caroline explains that influence was a big deal at IBM, influence and reputation metrics are valuable both from a B2B and B2C perspective. But….and this is important, Caroline points out in when it comes to why people buy from and engage with you, “the big challenge for marketers is, those reasons have to be authentic, they have to be real, there has to be credibility behind them.”

The ability to look broadly, do the right thing and meet all the points of value creation are what make marketing and indeed this conversation so interesting. Caroline shares some top actions she believes marketers need to be doing and of course we ask her that all important question, ‘Can marketing save the planet?’ This is not one to be missed, it will leave you with so much to think about and take forward, so tune in, listen and tell us what you think…

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“There are four questions every business needs good answers to. Why would anyone want to buy from us? Why would anyone want to work for us? Why would anyone want to invest in us? Why would anyone allow us to operate in their community, society?”

It’s another two-parter and in this episode (Part 1), we dive into the role of CMOs and leaders when it comes to the sustainability agenda. We were joined by Caroline Taylor OBE, former CMO for IBMs international business and a huge advocate for ‘adding value in many other places in the world.’

Already aware of sustainability back in the early 2000’s Caroline got really focused in the mid 2000’s when IBM was doing work in ‘green IT’ and 2% of global carbon emissions were attributed to IT. Caroline explains, “I was very struck with the notion…but what about the other 98% and how we might use technology to mitigate that?” It was at that point she fell down the sustainability rabbit hole and started looking into how IBM could become a greater part of the solution whilst at the same time, find new ways to differentiate.

As well as looking for answers externally, Caroline talks at depth about the need to changes hearts and minds on sustainability internally, and raises the important point that to do this effectively requires conversations which focus on, “why this is a business opportunity as opposed to being a really important thing to do.” Caroline explains, “learning how to shift my focus from here’s a brilliant marketing idea, to here’s a brilliant business idea that’s going to make us money, our shareholders will love us, but it’s going to be tapping into something that is really important societally at the same time, is a win, win, win.” And, when it comes to stakeholder engagement we have to understand that, “enlightenment is important but the self-interest is real – we have to think about all of our stakeholder and what’s in it for them”

The need for leaders to recognise and see the opportunity in sustainability is so critical to balancing the triple bottom line and protecting the sustainability of their business. This episode explores the need for investment, the shift away from short-term thinking and strategising and the very real, tough choices and prioritisation that organisations need to make. Caroline also shares her insights into the role B2B marketing and business plays….for marketing she says it’s about “taking all the smart marketers that care and taking them outside of their day jobs to figure out how to use all those marketing skills to educate and engage and empower people to make better choices.” And, we couldn’t agree more, the case for education and awareness and the significant role and opportunity marketers and leaders have really shines through in this episode.

So, tune in and listen, and don’t forget there’s Part 2 in two weeks time where we continue the conversation, delving into the tactical side of marketing, the importance of listening and the challenge of what to measure when it comes to value creation around driving a more sustainable marketing agenda.

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Being sustainable is a story of assumed negatives, but it’s actually a story of discovered positives.”

We were joined in this episode by Simon Garnett who has been on a personal journey with consumption, one which he started when he realised his own habits were unhealthy, a journey he continues and has taken into his professional life as well.

Simon shares with us the moment he decided to reappraise his consumption with ‘new’ and how after a year it moved to him reappraising his consumption overall. Simon explains, whenever he tells anyone his story he gets asked two questions “after a year of not consuming, what was the first things you bought and, what did you miss?” These questions only made it clearer for Simon that, “the engagement with this story, the engagement with the concept of not buying new, is absolutely, integrally rooted in a concept of loss. But, from his perspective and experience it was the total opposite, and as the headline to this episode highlights, “It’s a story of assumed negatives, which is actually a story of discovered positives.”

We go on to explore the tensions that exist once you embark on a more sustainable way of living and the challenge of taking what you’ve learned to influence others at scale. Simon explains that he wants to create meaning around consumption and highlight that is isn’t about success and it definitely shouldn’t be viewed as inconvenient if you decide to cut down or buy second-hand. For Simon, marketing has been primarily about “driving consumption of new, and consumption of new is what equals success.”  Sustainability is often associated with having less, or being told you can’t have something and Simon acknowledges that the message we need to consume less is a strong one, but given how much we waste, how can that be a loss if we don’t even use what we do buy. 

Michelle shares a recent room refurbishment, something she found incredibly creative, down to the paint which she got through the sharing app, Olio. Through this journey Michelle discovered a number of services she didn’t know existed and that sense of not just taking the convenient route brought a deeper feeling of fulfilment. However, she points out the reason she hadn’t heard of these services, is because they are not being talked about enough. There are so many stories not yet being told.

Simon worries that the sense of “build it and they will come” risks relying on platforms and infrastructure to deliver and make re-commerce successful with a great user experience but it’s not, it’s about the stories we need to be telling. Simon explains, “what we’re competing with is not just inconvenience, but decades of messaging that new equals success and second hand is a bit dirty and undesirable.” Marketing has such an important role, and Simon believes we can rewrite the story.

There are many discovered benefits to sustainable living. What is your experience? Tune in and listen to this episode and make it a personal objective to share your personal stories and experiences, after all, we all need to be shouting louder when it comes to the benefits.

And to join the Re-commerce Revolution LinkedIn group Simon mentions - the link is here: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14191082/

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Through marketing campaigns we can bring sustainability and growing smaller more sustainable brands to the front and drive capital away from big brands.”

Where better to get the viewpoints from Gen Z about climate concerns and consumption habits than directly from a Gen Z’er. On this podcast were joined by Estella Struck, Founder and CEO of the first Gen Z Sustainable Product Marketing Agency based in New York. Estella found herself on the right side of TikTok during the lockdowns of 2020 and it was from here that her passion for sustainability was ignited. 

Coming out of the pandemic armed with her increased knowledge of the challenges around sustainability, Estella noticed the shifts in weather patterns. She also became more aware of what brands were saying in order to try and influence where Gen Z spend their money and drive consumption. Whilst Estella acknowledges there are some barriers when it comes to sustainable brands engaging with Gen Z such as location, accessibility and levels of disposable income, she believes there is a huge opportunity in reaching Gen Z through social media in a way that can raise awareness and change behaviours, encouraging them to put their money into sustainable brands supporting them in making sustainability more affordable.

Estella tells us, “what we see and what we consume influences what we do and how we act in our daily lives, our recent research revealed that Gen Z is more likely than any other generation to shop via social media”. Long form content may not always be an option on social, but creating a series is a powerful way to build awareness and knowledge whilst as she puts it “still provides that dopamine hit from the action of scrolling and seeing a new video.”

Estella believes her generation are sceptical of large corporates who launch sustainable lines or schemes, but more than that many Gen Z work in retail and see first-hand the levels of product, packaging and waste. She would like to see corporations doing more to reduce their impacts and address issues in their supply chains. Until they start doing that it will always come across as a cash grab and greenwashing.

Estella is all for supporting and growing smaller more sustainable organisations, she is a believer in social movements putting pressure on brands to change, but sustainability isn’t as front of mind as it needs to be, but as she states, “I know through marketing campaigns that we can bring it to the front and drive capital away from big brands.”

Estella shares her knowledge of social media both from a personal and professional perspective, and the work her agency does to ensure authenticity is an absolute priority. She is conscious that large audiences are left out and explains, “my goal to start an agency was to make the sustainability community more inclusive and encompassing so they felt like they had a place here because in the end sustainability isn’t just an environmental issue but an everyone issue”. Wise words indeed.

This is a podcast we encourage organisations big and small to tune into if they are serious about wanting to drive change. Estella and her generation have the most to lose if we do not change the course we are on, they are also a key driver of change across people, planet and profit. The fears are real and we all need to take responsibility and play our part. 

For more information about Estella and Viviene NY see: https://www.linkedin.com/company/viviene-new-york

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Building a culture of trust around green claims is the most important thing marketers, business and brands should be doing, using advertising self- regulation as a tool, making sure everyone is upholding those standards.”

As regulations and guidelines in and around sustainability continue to evolve, tighten up and support a better future around managing both what we do AND say, we spoke to Laura Brett whose remit is to lead the US system of advertising self-regulation looking at advertising claims to make sure what is being said is the truth, (like the Advertising Standards Agency – ASA, in the UK).

Laura makes it clear from the outset, that as a body, they look at one simple standard, and that is, “that advertising claims are truthful and not misleading, which also means you have to be transparent when advertising to consumers.” Greenwashing continues to make headlines globally with organisations being called out, investigated, or having their ads banned, whether due to misleading information, not telling the full story or only focusing on the ‘good’ whilst omitting the bad. All of which is incredibly damaging to people, planet and the organisations themselves.

Laura begins by explaining that actually, most complaints about claims in the US are brought to them not by consumers, but by competitors, one organisation challenging another. As she puts it, “the adversarial system is alive and well!” Laura goes on to explain that “the BBB National Programmes also open claims themselves both from consumers and from their own observations.”

During our discussion we discuss how the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) are currently in the process of reviewing their ‘Green Guides’ and inviting comment. Whilst the FTC do this every 10 years, Laura explains that this time round it feels particularly important because advertising needs to be held to a certain standard if we are to make progress in tackling the social and environmental challenges we face.

The ‘Green Guides’ are incredibly valuable for Marketers in terms of providing guidance, they can also be used to highlight what is being talked about and where gaps in knowledge might be. Any marketer looking at the guides should as a baseline know what the terms in them mean, and if they don’t they need to go and find out.

Laura talks about organisations who make carbon neutral claims without an achievable plan, and how if claims are going to be made, a plan has to be in place to show the pathway they are taking to meet that claim, even if that plan changes. Laura believes the FTCs focus is on closing the gaps in the ‘Green Guides’. The real issue however in amongst all of this isn’t whether one gets into trouble with the regulator, but the continued erosion of trust and that is where the damage really impacts brands in terms of reputation and culture - making them unfavourable to consumers and people not wanting to work for them. 

Another valuable episode for both Marketers in the US and, Marketers marketing to the US, providing advice and support to you as key stakeholders in supporting your organisations’ sustainable agendas, as Laura states, “building a culture of trust around green claims is the most important thing marketers, business and brands should be doing, using advertising self- regulation as a tool, making sure everyone is upholding those standards.” So tune in and listen!

Marketers can stay up to date with what is happening across advertising in the US by visiting:

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/cases-proceedings

https://bbbprograms.org/programs/advertising/all-programs#decisions

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

How do you get a return on your investment for your business, AND at the same time deliver a return on investment for the planet, ensuring everyone benefits?

In this episode we’re joined by Gavin Sheppard and Rob Cheesewright from Pinwheel, an organisation focused on projects that remove carbon from the atmosphere, restore habitats and protect biodiversity - to discuss that very question.

Given there’s a lot of terminology that can become quite confusing, we kick things off with some jargon busting diving into offsetting, carbon capture and, carbon removal. Offsetting has been the subject of controversial debate recently, as some argue it’s ineffective and many schemes are a ‘license to pollute’, and so it’s really important do the homework around what is out there, not taking things at face value, and remembering that the focus has to be on reduce, reduce, reduce.

When it comes to carbon capture and carbon removal, these are very different things, but, again there is confusion with the terms being mixed, up, used interchangeably and not really telling the story that allows informed decisions and progress to be made. Whilst they both make up a critical part of the Net Zero journey, they also play very different roles (you’ll need to listen in to find out more!)

Gavin tells us, “the science tells us that businesses need to do three things. The first is, reduce your own emissions and the impact on the planet, but it’s much broader than carbon, and that’s inside your value chain. Outside of your value chain you need to do two other things, remove legacy carbon and waste, investing in projects that do that in a high quality way, and the third thing we need to do is restore, and it’s these last two parts that Pinwheel helps with.” It is the high quality restoration projects that have a conclusive response to the sizeable issues we are facing.

Where marketing comes in (as we talk about so often on this podcast) is the communication piece around what are complex solutions, translating in a way that is engaging, motivating and helps people understand, and more importantly, want to understand and take action. The carbon removal projects Pinwheel fund around the world do just that. Not only are they are effective and restorative, they are a massive opportunity to tell some really inspiring stories which grab the attention of people, build trust and make them part of making a positive difference and, they make you smile. [Indeed, Can Marketing Save the Planet is investing in such projects for that very reason - and you can get involved in that too - more on that later!].

From a marketing perspective, it’s all about shifting mindsets, a vital step if we are to change behaviours. Rob raises the point around the mindset shift to ‘contribution’ being so important, he explains, that it, “decouples the harm being done on one side to the good on the other, the problem with compensation approaches, or offset or carbon neutral is it aims to say, don’t worry, the harm hasn’t happened, we’ve neutralised it, the contribution mindset says, we just need to contribute to the biggest impactful things we can, it is not seeking to edge away the other stuff.”

The bottom line is, we need to create a balanced ecosystem where life can thrive on this planet, and as Gavin simply says, “stop covering up the shit that we’ve done”.

So, where to start? Pinwheel recommends the WWF blueprint… (link below). And we, working alongside Pinwheel, encourage everyone to not only listen to this episode, (it’s full of advice business needs to know, and start doing), but to also go over to our Can Marketing Save the Planet investment fund - and get involved and start making a difference. Every £ helps.

We’re focused on three projects:

Seagrass restoration - ocean based - big impact 

Wolf protection - critical and seldom talked about

Forest restoration in the Andes - we need to support forest restoration desperately.

Get involved here: https://www.pinwheel.earth/can-marketing-save-the-planet

For more projects head over to the Pinwheel website. Remember, this isn’t a cost, it’s an investment in the future of everything.

WWF Blueprint - https://www.wwf.org.uk/blueprint-pr19

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“If you ever think you are too small to influence change on a global scale, just look at what Wales are doing.”

We were intrigued and excited to have the opportunity to chat with Sophie Howe, the first and only (for a period of time) ‘Future Generations Commissioner’ in the world!

Sophie was appointed Future Generations Commissioner for Wales in 2016. Wales has committed to 7 long-term wellbeing goals for future generations. This is all about a long term vision, preventing future problems, working collaboratively and involving citizens, (and importantly, it’s a legal obligation - rather than a pledge).

As Sophie advises… “It’s the law, you have to do it,” - and this is the difference, tangible accountability! As Sophie shares how the commitments have come into play and the practicalities of embedding them, she explains how Wales has committed to stop spending money in building roads which when taking a long-term view, is a public health intervention. 14-15% of emissions in the country come from transport, and by reducing emissions from road transport there are multiple future benefits triggered, from emissions reduction through to health and wellbeing and opportunities being opened up for investment in a better public transport system - all of which collectively benefit society now and in the future.

Sophie raises many important points and examples around the interconnectedness of the challenge we all face when it comes to building a more sustainable future and how we need to make those connections when building strategies, planning investment, timescales and resource; “By not taking a joined up approach, we’re completely missing opportunities - so, we need to be thinking about what we do, and how its going to affect both now and into the future, asking how does it make the biggest contribution to wellbeing.”

The Future Generation Goals have brought people together, its changed the conversation both for the public sector and the private sector, Sophie tells us how industries operating in Wales are coming to them to ask how they can be part of delivering against the wellbeing goals. This has had a positive impact on how business is planned and operates, from point of tender through to selection and delivery, providing more security and stability.

When it comes to communities it’s a bit more of a mixed bag, with views being divided (as you’d expect) depending on the impact to where people live. However, it is bringing politicians, businesses and communities together, awareness is growing, and the opportunity to educate is also increasing as people look to understand why decisions and actions are happening.

The heart of this conversation and the actions taking place in Wales clearly evidence that we are all responsible for our future, and as Sophie points out, “as much as we criticise our politicians, actually we as citizens are as much to blame because we often demand that they do short term things.”

Brave leadership, shared communication and participation is an absolute must.

We recommend everyone listens to this episode, it is a wonderful example of rising to the challenge of making meaningful yet challenging commitments and leading the way. By the end of it, we had our bags packed ready to move to Wales (well I did, Gemma is considering Costa Rica ;)).

For more information about The Future Generations ‘Acting today for a Better Tomorrow’ - see here: https://www.futuregenerations.wales/

And to stay connected to the great work Sophie is championing - her LinkedIn profile is here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophie-howe-57a62186/

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

The challenge for the marketing team is, “needing to take what are serious and complex issues and convey them in a format that is easily understandable.”

Want to know how marketing can drive a “people powered movement for change?” THIS is the episode you don’t want to miss.

We jumped at the opportunity to talk to Jackie Marshall at Fairtrade an organisation with market leading levels of audience recall, awareness and engagement. One of the most trusted and recognised ethical labels out there today across a multitude of products we see as we do our weekly shop, from coffee to cocoa and wine to flowers. Coming up to their 30th anniversary, Fairtrade have always placed workers and farmers at the heart of their work using their platform to facilitate and amplify their voices fighting for their rights, land, health and future. Their transition to a new global branding called ‘The Future is Fair’ is, as Jackie tells us, “all about embedding the purpose of our work into the brand and moving to a more optimistic lens for the future and enabling a unified approach, which is really important given the increasing global connectedness of the challenges we are facing.”

Supply chains are a critical part of the value chain and they are facing increasing challenges and direct impacts from climate change, Jackie talks about how farmers have a wealth of knowledge in tackling climate change but increased heatwaves and drought, combined with strong rainfall and flooding is placing huge pressures on them, and when you add to that the fact that many don’t earn a living wage, (a cocoa farmer can earn as little as 74p per day), the work Fairtrade do is so needed in ensuring farmers are paid fairly and receive the Fairtrade Minimum Price which is consistent and enables them to not only live their daily lives, but to plan ahead and come up with solutions to keep their crops alive and thriving. You’ll have to tune in to hear some of the incredible ways they do this.

At Can Marketing Save the Plane we’re consistent about the significant role marketing plays in driving a more sustainable future and the importance of the words and language we use. Jackie explained how the marketing teams at Fairtrade’s biggest challenge is, “needing to take what are serious and complex issues and convey them in a format that is easily understandable.” You’ll hear how they wrap their messages into marketing activation which is relevant and motivating to their audience, and critically in a way which makes people care about something that they don’t see and that happens thousands of miles away. Now that is powerful marketing! Showing the impact of what buying Fairtrade products does, large campaigns, using research and insights from their audiences and shared activations are just some ways the marketing team meet their objectives, and their results speak for themselves.

Tune in to hear the details – SO MUCH value and learning that all Marketers can take from this.

We love Fairtrade and all the wonderful and important work they do, they and their marketing teams are a true exemplar in driving a “people powered movement for change”. This is sustainable marketing at its absolute best!

For more information about The Fairtrade Foundation…

Linked in - The Fairtrade Foundation 

Twitter- @FairtradeUK

URL - www.fairtrade.org.uk

And to connect with Jackie

Linked in - Jackie Marshall 

Twitter - @J_Marshall__

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“Climate change isn’t a game that anybody wins – we either all win or we all lose and I’d much rather we all win”.

Where to start with an overview of this insightful, practical and hugely inspiring conversation. Simon Dawes, environmental professional for over 20 years and working in the field of sustainability for the last 13 years, is generous in sharing with us the practicalities of how a public sector organisation is transitioning to Net Zero - and inspiring, supporting and sharing knowledge and best practice with others along the way.

We discuss the commitment to net zero, and importantly, how the organisation has had to figure out exactly how to meet 2030 targets. Which in his own words has meant a ‘fundamental change to the way we think, act and make decisions in the business.’

The lion share of most organisations’ emissions lie in the supply-chain (Scope 3) - and so too with the Environment Agency, around 84% of their emissions. And Simon tells us how it is important that suppliers are also on the same net zero journey - and how for public sector for large contracts (any contract for over £5M), suppliers have to provide a carbon reduction plan and without that in place they won’t make it onto the tender list. This leads to discussion about how there is room for the Environment Agency to help and drive change in the supply chain.. “Delivering on our own footprint would be good – but if we can influence a whole lot of other companies to do the same, that’s even better.”

Diving deeper into the practicalities of the transition, we talk about how the Environment Agency has designed and rolled out Carbon Literacy. “We want everybody in the orgnaisation to understand that their job is actually a climate job they are helping us achieve net zero.” Simon shares how they planned, designed, communicated and rolled out Carbon Literacy training - starting with senior execs and how within a relatively short period of time, their voluntary programme has engaged 9300 of their 12,000 employees - and shares how this is changing the culture of everyone understanding the role they play - and the results they’re achieving. {They’ve also made the programme available to their suppliers - supporting their education, awareness and transitions too - and Simon chairs a climate action charity, where the Carbon Literacy programme is also being delivered, giving people the knowledge and language to work things through in their own minds and apply to their own worlds).

“Carbon Literacy is helping people to understand I can do something about this. I might not be working in the sustainability team – but I can do something.”  

We then dive into the Environment Agency’s approach to carbon budgets. Every director int he business owns a chunk of the emissions, and therefore owns the actions. He tells us ‘‘We’re very used to making decisions about finite amounts of cahs, so exactly the same principle applies with a finite amount of carbon. Can I afford this? Have I got enough cash? Can I afford this? Have I got enough carbon?”

The design of carbon budget has raised a whole new set of questions, can you overspend, do you borrow from next year or other divisions etc - and he shares how they have created frameworks and dashboards to help people understand that the decisions they make have carbon consequences as well as cash consequences.

We talk about where the ‘right’ marketing can really help with shifting mindsets to a different way of operating. The cultural change piece particularly around the business model. Encouraging different behaviours both internally and externally - moving away from take, make, dispose to circular models. Helping people to understand that there is huge value and kudos in circular and regenerative principles. And how marketing has an amazing role to play in making that socially cool rather than having a new shiny thing.  

Regardless of size or sector, there is so much packed into this conversation about decarbonisation, net zero road maps, employee engagement, supply chain engagement and the power of participative leadership, generosity and collaboration. And in our usual three questions Simon leaves us with the urgent and important reminder that… 

“There is no business on a dead planet.’

“Think slow, act fast.”

For more information about Simon Dawes - his LinkedIn profile is here .

And for more about The Carbon Literacy Trust - and the spotlight on the Environment Agency - see here .

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You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together.

Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.