What parent would take a raise if it meant their family would be worse off? That’s the reality for many families facing the “benefits cliff.”

Nic Dunn sits down with Keith Barnes of the Beyond the Cliff Coalition to discuss how government policies can unintentionally punish work — and how states can innovate for smarter, family-centered reforms to help restore the promise of upward mobility and the American dream.

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.