Amidst heightened nuclear tension between NATO and Russia in Europe, an American (John LaForge) is the first to be jailed in Germany for revealing at least 21 U.S. B61 thermonuclear gravity bombs stationed there.
KPFK’s Cary Harrison’s guest: Jack Cohen-Joppa, co-coordinator at NuclearResister.org
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Cary Harrison: Cary Harrison, show Cary Harrison and it is 34 minutes past the hour. We're gonna talk about what's going on in Germany today. Let's not forget World War ii. Let's not forget we were one of the occupiers along with the Brits, along with the French, along with the Soviets.
Who ran Germany for decades and decades, which is one of the famous moments where JFK showed up and said he was not a, or that he was a Berliner, but mispronounced it. And the particular way of saying, Lina, which is I am from, I am a upper line, is a Lina, said Lina, which is a jelly donut and that caused a lot of Republicans at the time to laugh and giggle.
Nonetheless, the wall was up and there are tunnels underneath, and I'll tell you about those some other time. But right now, let me introduce to you Jack Cohen jpa. I'm assuming it's jpa or jpa, but we're gonna find out. Is it? You're nodding. So it's one of the two . Jack-Cohen Joppa Have you got my audio? I do have your audio.
And he is since 1980 with nuclear resistor.org. He and his wife Fise have edited and published 200 issues of the nuclear resistor. An international newsletter of peace prisoner support, chronicling anti-nuclear and anti-war civil disobedience in 2020. Jack and Fise received the International Nuclear Free Future Award.
In the category of education, and let's bring each other up to what is going on today in Germany. This is a first ever event, right at the edge of a war zone with nuclear weapons involved. Welcome, Jack Cohen. Japa. Thank
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: you.
Cary Harrison: Your audio is broken up, my friend. I think that's the issue. So let's try again. We're trying. Okay, that's digital soup. What I'm gonna have you do is log out and log back in and it should clear your cash, if you don't mind. Terribly. Okay, cool. So I'll just give you the backstory on what we're gonna talk about here.
Amidst heightened nuclear tension between NATO and Russia in Europe, US Peace activist John laforge, entered a German prison today. If you're listening to this as a podcast several days from now, let's just say it. More or less today happens to be January 10th, 2023. Today he entered a German prison to serve jail time there for protests against the US nuclear weapons unit stockpiled at Germany's Busia Air Force Pace, 80 miles southeast of Cologne.
The forge entered. In Hamburg as the first ever American imprisoned for a nuclear weapons protest in Germany. This is a big deal. The 66 year old guy from Minnesota, he's a native there, co-director of NU Watch, the Wisconsin based advocacy and action group was convicted of trespass for joining two goin actions.
We would call that a, I guess it's a breaking and enter but it's going on to a military base. This is a US military base in. Not a German military base, a US military base. So he joined two go in actions at the it's a German air base. Technically, let's just say it's dressed up as a German one, but it's ours.
Back in 20 18, 1 of the actions involved entering the base and climbing at top a bunker that likely housed some of the approximately 20 US B 61 thermo nuclear gravity bombs stationed. 20 B 61 thermo nuclear gravity bomb station there. Imagine if even one went off what would be left of Germany and what would happen to the entire food supply of Europe.
We have to remember what a nuclear bomb does. Germany's regional court in Kountz affirmed his conviction, lowered the penalty from 1500 bucks to 600 or 50 daily rates. He said he would not pay it instead in his appeal. He, his defense was crime prevention. In other words, using the nu or by exposing the fact that there were nukes there, he was preventing a crime.
And it hasn't gone to their version of Supreme Court yet. So that's gonna be very interesting to see how they rule on that. They being an ally, they being part of nato. So we'll see what that is. Both courts ruled against a hearing from an expert witness. Who had volunteered to explain the international treaties that prohibit any planning for mass destruction?
Oh, let me say that again. We're talking about X Nazis here. So there is a treaty says that there is a prohibition against any planning for mass destruction, including our own worst signatories of that. Going back to what, 1980 and 1970? 1990. Under George Bush, the first. We are signatories to all sorts of things, so you really can't have something for mass destruction if you're a treaty signatory, so you hide it.
In addition, the appeal urges Germany stationing of the US nuclear weapons as a violation of the treaty of the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons n pt, which explicitly forbids any transfer of nuclear weapons between countries that are parties to the treaty, including ding, both us. How's that? Oh my God.
It's stereophonic. It's be. Don't trust Apple every day. . I think a few of us trust it now along with Facebook and Zuckerberg. Yeah, but we'll do another show on that someday. Let's talk about this poor guy or hero. As many would see him from Minnesota, who is now in prison in Germany for exposing some 20 B 21.
Gravity based, thermonuclear, warheads sitting in the Fatherland. Yes. NATO sharing, nuclear sharing is what the United States and NATO called the United States Practice of basing our nuclear weapons in five NATO nation, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Italy, and Turkey, and maybe also England, where we used to base our own nuclear weapons.
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: This has gone on since at least the 1960s, if not before. And even though the 1970 treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons said that sharing nuclear weapons is against that treaty, even though all of the nuclear powers have signed that treaty, the United States persists in training foreign pilots to fly their airplanes with US nuclear weapons from Europe, putting them on Russia's door.
And this is the threat that Russia perceived to their own security that prompted eventually their invasion of Ukraine, is that in fact all of the nuclear powers. With possible exception of China, have made first use part of their policy. So the United States does not foursquare that they will be the first ones to use nuclear weapons, nor does Russia.
And so we have this unusual threatening standoff now in Europe. And my friend John the Forge, has been organizing people with German peace activists for several years now to protest and demand that the US nukes come home. We have no business station, our nuclear weapons in other nations. And so John has been arrested a number of times and it's a consequence of these numerous arrests that he was prosecuted and he appealed again to the Supreme Court of Germany.
But in the meantime, he has to serve a sentence and he has refused to pay a fine because for his conscience to pay a fine would just be to. Agree that his punishment is warranted and he's, he doesn't believe that's true. He believes he engaged in crime prevention because the crime is the nuclear weapons and further crime is the, they're based in Europe.
Cary Harrison: I'm gonna put this into perspective quickly. Carrie Harrison with you, this is the Carrie Harrison show. You can get my [email protected]. Check out my sub at the Carrie Harrison files. Dot com. We're talking right now to Jack Cohen Joppa [email protected]. We remember historically in the 1960s when.
Che had a bunch of nukes heading to Cuba, and they were gonna be sitting 90 miles off our coast. That was considered unacceptable, unforgivable. No way in a million years is ever gonna happen. No, there's no world in which That's okay. There is no possible exception to why. That's not only sucks, but it's never gonna happen.
Thank you very much. Have a nice day. We're talking about the same thing now. We're putting our nukes in former Nazi Germany. Sitting there next to Poland, next to Ukraine, and they're saying the same thing. Wait a minute, we know about these things and not in a million years are we gonna allow this. But I think politically, we, whoever we are, because you and me, the civilians, we don't know about this stuff.
That's the key part. If we all knew ho, ho, there might be something called a vote democracy, a plebiscite, but it's a big old secret. But they know. And so we are told that the reason for Ukraine is because we're just not sure, but we have to help cause gosh. And so it's that kind of stupid.
And yet it can be focused into some of these details where we now have a guy as of today put in prison for pointing out these, if I'm not mistaken here, B 21, let me call them what they are here. They're. Likely 20 B 61, 61 thermonuclear gravity bomb station there. What is a B 61 THERMONUCLEAR gravity bomb?
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: Thermonuclear weapons are actually another name is a hydrogen bomb. They're actually, Fission combination fusion weapon, and these are dropped from aircraft and they detonate above the ground and they cause an immense explosion. For instance, if we dropped the size warhead that we're talking about, maybe a let's see if we dial up the B 61.
I'm on a great website here called Nuclear secrecy.com and they've got a whole NU map. You can find out the consequences of a nuclear weapon in your neighbor.
Cary Harrison: And see what it is. So if we take I I only laugh because the burlesque of it, I mean it is so unimaginable. It's like watching the Walking Dead and finding out maybe it's real, except what you're saying is real.
So thank you. Put that website again. Yeah.
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: No nuclear secrecy.com. So if we dropped your average B 61 MOD 7 340 kiloton bomb, and that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good size nuclear weapon. But if it were dropped in South la. There would be damage from the Hollywood sign down to Long Beach, and the more significant consequence is that the healthcare system in the entire Los Angeles Valley would be entirely overwhelmed with perhaps 250,000 fatalities and nearly a million injuries from just one large nuclear weapon detonated over downtown Los Angeles.
So if you think the covid. Pandemic has challenged our healthcare capacity. Imagine the consequences of just one nuclear weapon detonated anywhere in this country or anywhere in the world for that matter. It would
Cary Harrison: severely
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: disrupt the delivery of healthcare, and it would have an un unknowable effect on global politics.
Should just one nuclear weapon be used? I know I would be out in the street demanding that our nation not join in that party. Because
Cary Harrison: also the end of the earth, to your point Jack Cohen Japa, once that nuclear weapon went off, apart from all of the primary, secondary, tertiary issues, political geopolitical, then there's the water supply.
Which is now permanently tainted. The half-life of these radio alytic properties could be a half a million years. So that means you're exposed to whatever you touch, which can keep on giving its love for half a million generations of broken d n a just mayhem forever. So it's not just boom, okay, we're gonna go sweep up the ashes.
The ashes can last. 500 generations. Yeah, that's true.
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: Yeah. And the impact on individual human health for
Cary Harrison: generations persist as well. So let's talk a little bit about what the Germans are saying. The German people, they have a different kind of media. Through after World War ii, we made sure that they did have as close as we could make it and as close as they've been able to hold onto it.
A news service that is not highly corrupted by a government or corporate interference. They tend to bravely do stories on their own crummy government's behavior, on their former Ss, stuff that we wouldn't dare in a million years see here. But you can get updates on what's going on Capitol Hill by watching Deut Chavela in.
Like really competent news and they're not afraid because they're able to do that because we did invite them to do what are they saying about an American being put in prison for talking about nukes on their soil? They're not big lovers of having our nukes on their soil. From what I understand.
That's what
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: I understand. Also, in fact, German parliament a few years ago even expressed their sense of parliament that they would like to see. Germany withdraw from this nuclear sharing agreement with the United States. So there's clearly support for the withdrawal of US nuclear weapons. How that might have changed in the last year in terms of public opinion, I'm not sure, but I doubt that it has been diminished very much because the people that are on the front line understand that they're the ones that are on the front line.
They're the ones that will suffer the consequences if the war in Ukraine spreads any farther because. Someone decides to escalate with nuclear weapons, they know that they're gonna
Cary Harrison: be the ones to suffer. They're the sponge to absorb
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: What's being thrown from our adversaries. So it's pretty clear that they're not fond of US nuclear weapons there, but in every country there are a lot of militarists who believe that Mike makes right and believe that's the only way to defend their future is to threaten the destruction of everybody else.
And I question the wisdom of that. per of
Cary Harrison: that perspective? We know from just communal living. If you've ever gone camping and you're with four people and you decide to take a whiz in someone's tent, it doesn't go well. So this idea that you get to do whatever you want cuz it's gonna get everyone else to behave, no, it's just not cool.
And they dig a latrine away from the tents for the same reason. They don't. To be poisoned by your particular appetites. And that's what this is. And as we learned with the Nixon administration, famously Watergate, which probably was the great wake up call for many people in a certain generation follow the money.
There is so much money, so much cash flow in just doing this kind of behavior, whether it's ever used or not. Like why would you build these B 61 gravity based thermonuclear weapons if you planned. Seriously never to use them. That seems like a silly expense when you could buy books and, I don't know, food and maybe some light rail.
It's a great profit for those who make
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: it and it's a great burnishing their credentials within that kind of a, of an industry to say that, yeah, we produced a new nuclear weapon. We've got a new missile we're building just here in Tucson, a new nuclear missile at Raytheon. This is a profit making.
And certainly one of the better ways to approach the profit up the profit margin is to go after the banks that finance the nuclear weapons
Cary Harrison: industry. And there's a whole campaign in Europe that's stronger
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: currently in Europe than in the United States called Don't Bank on the Bomb, this Google that Don't bank on the bomb.
And you'll find a whole network. And a whole list of resources for how you can approach your financial institution and say, do you have any investments in this list of corporations that are involved in nuclear weapons? Because. We think that's an immoral and illegal thing to do under the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons that will be now two years old on January 22nd.
The United States has not signed on to this treaty, but its provisions affect the United States by delegitimizing. The idea of nuclear deterrence. And so here we are as a society. We face twin existential crises of climate change and nuclear war and nuclear extinction. That ladder existential threat is pretty easy to solve.
We disarm nuclear weapons and then we could use that money for mitigation and accommodation
Cary Harrison: for climate change. So
Jack-Cohen-Joppa: the idea that there's any useful. Purpose in continuing to expand our nuclear arsenal and modernize it, which is what all of the nuclear nations are now doing, is modernizing their production and delivery capacity for nuclear weapons that only tempts that other existential threat of global and i l a.
That's the easy one to solve. We have the solution that's called the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons, and that's what my friend John the. He was at the first meeting of the state's parties in Vienna last summer. Those countries that have agreed that they will never possess nuclear weapons and that they will take all the effort that they have to universalize that prohibition.
So they bring the discussion of nuclear weapons into all the international four that these countries are a part of that also involved the United States and before they settle down to business, they. By the way, you have these nuclear weapons that are really getting in the way of humanity, and we would like you to get rid of them.
And now if you'd like to talk about something, We will, but this is also on the
Cary Harrison: table. You are awesome, and I really appreciate as we come to the end of the show talking to you, Jack Cohen Joppa coordinator at Nuclear Resistor, one word nuclear resistor.org. Nuclear resistor.org. Since 1980, Jack and his wife Felic have edited and published it and published.
There's some oldie englishy for you. 200 issues of the nuclear resistor. An international newsletter of peace prisoner support, chronically anti-nuclear and anti-war civil disobedience. And in 2020, Jack and Fice received the International Nuclear Free Future Award. In a category of education. I wanna thank you so much for having come on today and explaining the inexplicable and bringing forth the idea of an immo nuclear weapon somehow being distasteful
Ah, I gotta wrap my head around that one. I thank you my friend. We look forward to talking to you again. Thanks, Gary. All right, Carrie Harrison with you. This is the Carrie Harrison show wrapping up here. Wanna invite you again to make sure that you get my free newsletter simply by going to Cary Harrison, c a r y h a r i s o n.com.
Or you can go to Carrie Harrison files. Dot com, Kerry harrison files.com, and you're gonna see all kinds of news stories like this that you won't see in the mainstream press on purpose, conspicuously missing, absolutely spiked and removed. You're gonna find all kinds of cool stuff, and I want to wanna spend more time with you doing that as I do enjoying intimate time in the beginning as we did this hour.
I will look forward to seeing you all next. Please be safe. Be smart. Be sane, and try not to go to jail. Even if you mean it smells like fish. Tastes like chocolate. The Harrison show.
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