Cedar Mill & Bethany Libraries Podcasts

Muriel and Allen Van Veen share with us how the idea to start a library in the Cedar Mill area germinated in their house around their fireplace back in the early to mid 70s.  They go on to talk about its development in the years afterwards and the committed volunteer effort that made the library possible.  This interview is part of a larger project funded by the Oregon Cultural Trust and the Cultural Coalition of Washington County to capture the memories of our three decades of service by digitizing and providing online access to historic photographs, articles, documents and oral histories about the library's founding.

Mary Packer arrived in the Cedar Mill area in September of 1975, right around the same time that a group of citizens were starting the Cedar Mill Community Library.  Mary shares her early experiences volunteering with this group as the library formed and struggled to find funding to operate.  Mary documents the growth and expansion of the library and the yearly rummage sale, the MESS, as it became a success and transformed into our ongoing resale store, Second Edition.  This interview is part of a larger project funded by the Oregon Cultural Trust and the Cultural Coalition of Washington County to capture the memories of our three decades of service by digitizing and providing online access to historic photographs, articles, documents and oral histories about the library's founding.

(Intro music)    0:05: Mark:  As part of a grant to document and explore the founding of the Cedar Mill Community Library over thirty-five years ago, we’ve recorded conversations with several of the library founders.  This interview is with Mary Packer, an early library supporter who became an influential board member and volunteer as the library grew.   Enjoy! 

0:21:  Mark:  If you could tell us your name and a little bit about your family, and maybe how long you've lived in Cedar Mill. 

0:27:  Mary:  Well, I’m Mary Packer, and we moved here in 1975.  My husband had worked for Ralphs Grocery Company in … down in California, and then got a job with Fred Meyer running their dairy plant.  So he came up here earlier with one of our children, and then we followed in September.  We have six children; three of them came with us, and three were older and stayed down there on their own at that time, but they all eventually came here. 

1:12:  Mary:  So when we first arrived and bought a house up in Lost Park, and the Welcome Wagon lady came to visit, the first thing I asked about was the library, ‘cause we had chosen a different house that didn't work out and so we had looked at this house.  Anyway, she said that they were just getting started in … getting started starting a library.  We were avid users of the library where we lived in Fullerton and in Arcadia, in California. 

1:46:  Mary:  So coincidently, one of our neighbors was a friend of my daughters, or they made friends, and her father Frank Gregor was one of the starters, or was very involved in this program.  And so at the time they were having an Open House and the Ice Cream Social, and getting signa- … well, anyway, having an Ice Cream Social, so Susie insisted that we go.  So we went as a family, and signed the big certificate that they had at the time, the poster, and started getting involved.  And so it was through that that I decided that would be a good way to get acquainted with people in the community. 

Mark:  OK.    2:39:  Mary:  I had done Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, and all of that stuff, in our prior location, and thought this was a good thing, so that's how I became involved.  I wasn't really involved in the initial set up of the organization; they had already established, I think, their nonprofit status at that time. 

Mark:  So about what year was that? 

Mary:  Well, I came in ’75, in September, so I think the works had started in ’74.  And I think they had the nonprofit status at that time -- I'm not positive about that.  And so … I don't remember exactly … I remember the opening, and being involved then.  One of the first things that I did was I was involved in cataloging. 

Mark:  Wow. 

3:40:  Mary:  Yeah.   And so, and I did nonfiction.  And at the time I … WCCLS also was started, and so they were already there and … 

Mark:  And that’s the Washington County Cooperative Library System (sic). 

Mary:  County.  Yeah.  And through them, and PCC, they offered a lot of classes for … in library … work, and so we all took some of those classes.   And we also … in doing the catalog … and we went down to … well, first we looked at Beaverton, and were really disappointed in their method of cataloging.  And so we went downtown, and we used some reference material that they had down there, and I guess did a fairly good job of … at least we were recognized for that … doing good cataloging. 

4:45: Mary:  And then there were so many people in the community that were involved in different ways, at that time.  Andy Anderson and his wife Polly were some of the volunteers, and they … he was a real … he did a lot of construction work.  And so he built (a) card catalog, built shelves for us, and that kind of thing.  So it was …  

5:14:  Mark:  So what I'm … curious where the books were coming from. 

Mary:  Oh, they were all dona-- 

Mark:  What can you tell us about that? 

Mary:  The books were all donated, and there was … I mean they just came in in hordes, and there was a good deal of controversy at the time because of not …  Some of them of course were very outdated, and so there was this difficulty about what are we going to do with these books.  And so disposing of them became an issue, because people thought, “Well we donated them, they need to be used, and if you're not using them, send them to some reservations,” or things like that.  And then we thought, “Well why should we send misinformation, or old stuff, to …”  And so there was an issue about that.  But it eventually just calmed down, and people realized what our goal was, and that we couldn't … use all that material. 

6:16: Mark:  Sounds like you got involved in the process kind of mid-way.    Mary:  Well, yeah.    Mark:  Did they have a location at that point, when you got involved?  And did they know it was going to be?  And do you know kind of how that came about?    Mary:  Yes, yeah.  Well, I … because Mr. Bales offered us the space down here, and at a reasonable rate, and so that's where it opened up.  But they had originally planned to open a small library up on 107th and Cornell, in a little … it was a storefront of some kind, and eventually just a preschool took that property, and it was going to be a 7-11 or something like that, and the residents weren't happy about that.  So that was going to be, and there was a book mobile up there at the time, and so that was the beginning, actually, was the book mobile, and then from there we moved to Bales … location.  

7:19: Mark:  So was it … it was a book mobile, with the books that you guys had been collecting? 

Mary:  I believe so, yes. 

Mark:  So it wasn't associated with any … established library? 

Mary:  No.  There wasn’t any …  No, no.  The founders really worked hard to keep the ball rolling.  Fred Gregor and Joyce Stride were … kind of took care of the library itself, and getting that rolling and set up all of that.  And then it just it … I mean it just grew by leaps and bounds, just took off right from the start, and we always … we had a lot of different programs going, just like you do today, to get the community involved, and also for fundraising.  We worked with the high school; we just did everything we could to get different kinds of elements in the community to become aware of the library.  And it seemed to work well. 

8:19: Mark:  And when was the opening day?  Do you remember? 

Mary:  It was in January of 1976.  (I) don't know the exact day; it could have been right after the first, but sometime in January. 

Mark:  And were you a part of the … Washington County immediately from the start, or … 

Mary:  Well, I’m not sure, I think that sort of all developed in that first year.  Because I know that we had these different classes that were sponsored by PCC, but I know that WCCLS also had … some help in getting those going. 

9:00: Mark:  Since you weren't around when they had the nonprofit status all … already, do you know anything about how that came about?  What are your memories about why they decided to go that route? 

Mary:  Well, because I think that was the only route they could go.  There just wasn't … we weren’t a community … a city.  And the folks wanted something right here in Cedar Mill, so that it would be community-based rather than …  I don't think that they ever talked to Beaverton … I'm not sure about … being a part of that.  But I know that the residents here had to pay to use Beaverton, and also to use Portland and Multnomah County Library. 

Mark:  Oh, really? 

9:51: Mary:  Yeah.  So this then would be a non-fee, for the residents, for the people in this area, over the people throughout the county. 

Mark:  That’s a good reason to start your own library, it sounds like. 

Mary:  Yeah. 

Mark:  So what are the … what were the main obstacles that you personally came across in the first … leading up to the library opening and then maybe the first year? 

Mary:  Well, I think one of the biggest obstacles -- not necessarily an obstacle, but -- was just getting recognition that we were serious, and that it was really a library and not just a joke.  And getting … just to have credibility.  That we were doing things in the proper manner, and doing things the right way.  So I think that that was the obstacle, because the community just, came right in and supported us, and there was, I don't think, ever a problem getting sufficient volunteers.  And our children's program just took off beautifully, I mean as far as storytelling.   Janette Gill, who you'll talk to later, was very involved in that.  And so we had terrific turnouts in that space down there, where it could hardly hold all the people that were involved, and so that's when the move came, to move up to this location. 

11:30:  Mark:  So was the criticism coming from outside the community? 

Mary:  Yes. 

Mark:  Other libraries? 

Mary:  Yes.  Yeah. 

Mark:  Ok.  How was the library staffed in the beginning? 

Mary:  All volunteers.  And, let’s see, I'm trying to think what our process was.  I think at one time people wrote their names on the card, and then that became questionable, because other people would see who had … was reading the books, etc.  And so I know that changed and I’m forgetting exactly how that process worked.  Anyway, we also worked at getting grants, at the time.  We worked hard at getting members of the community to join the Association so that we could use those funds for eventually purchasing books.  And so we did start then, purchasing books also, when we had enough funds. 

12:39: Mark:  So the initial funds came solely from people joining the association? 

Mary:  Yes.  Um hmm.  And then I think we held our first M.E.S.S. the second year that we were open, and earned $2000, or something like that. 

Mark:  So what's the “M.E.S.S.”? 

Mary:  The “M.E.S.S.” is the “miscellaneous etcetera super sale.” 

13:04: Mark:  Oh, Ok.  So did that eventually lead to Second Edition? 

Mary:  Yes.  Yeah.  ‘Cause we did that on an annual basis, and each chairman tried to outdo the previous chairman in the funds raised.  So I think in the final years we were raising something like $16,000 in that one event, and we were running out of …  Well, when we did M.E.S.S. initially, people housed things in their garages, and then it was brought to the Bales location … Thriftway location … for the sale.  And then we were offered space at C. E. Mason School, so that gave us a lot more space.   And so that's when it really began to grow.  And then we were no longer able to have that space, and that's when we started thinking about the resale shop.  We had thought about it previously, because there was a little white house somewhere, next to the gas station down there, and for a couple years, we … before the actual M.E.S.S. sale, we housed some clothing and odds and ends there, and opened it for a few hours a couple days a week.  And that was very popular in the community, so that gave us the initial thought about a resale shop. 

14:41: Mary:  So then when we lost that space, everybody was talking about having a resale shop, and so I got a group together and we—Jack Thurber was involved in that, and a number of other  people—just setting up, “How are we going to find out if it would be viable?”, and “What do we need to do?”, so we went and interviewed all of the other resale shops, or very many of the non-profit and profit in the Portland area, and sort of took the best ideas from … gathered what we thought were the better ideas.  And they were all extremely helpful to us.  (We) took those things got started. 

15:22: Mark:  About what year was that? 

Mary:  That was in 1987.  So that first year we made $33,000, and we … the Association, or (rather) the Board, approved our project, and they gave us $6000 for start-up money, and we replaced … gave that all back to them. 

15:45: Mark:  Did you have to carve out a space here, or was it at a different location for a while? 

Mary:  Well, it was here.  The DMV used to be located at the end of this building, and they were moving out of that space, and we were able to get that space. 

16:05: Mark:  So it sounds like Cedar Mill became a part of WCCLS pretty early on then. 

Mary:  Yes, I think that they did, yeah.  And as I said, Fred Gregor and Joyce Stride kind of took over coordinating the library activities that first year.   And then at the end of that year they asked me if I would do that, and so I said “yes”.  And so then I was sort of “coordinator” of the library.  And after that year, then we were able to hire Kathy Mann, under the CETA program, where wages were paid by, oh, the government somehow.   So it got young people coming out of school the ability to get a job, and so they were funded through the CETA program.  I'm not sure if the total wage was, or just part of it, but it was a program that the government sponsored.  And so Kathy was with us then. 

17:14: Mark:  Was she a librarian? 

Mary:  Yes.  Yeah, she had a degree.  And then after her we had another librarian, Greg Smoots, and then John (lastname?) came in after that, and then Peter (Leonard). 

Mark:  Ok. 

Mary:  So (I) was that … coordinated that effort.  And I think just before that, I also was … or after that effort I was volunteer coordinator for a while.  And so I attended all of the Board meetings for about ten years, because of just reporting to them on the activities.  And then I became a member of the Board and went through the ranks there. 

17:54: Mark:  So we talked about some of the difficulties in the first year.  So since you were involved in the first ten years or so, so intimately, what were the big challenges … during that time? 

Mary:  Well, I think we were always … the biggest challenge I think was the fundraising and getting funds to keep it going.  And just … one of the things I remember, aside from the money, was just getting everything done, and thinking “Wow, if we get this done, we’ll be caught up,” and then we realized that if we ever caught up, we would not be viable.  (Chuckle.) 

18:33: Mary:  And so it's just been wonderful to see that continue, continue, continue, continue, as this place has just grown and expanded.  And it's just exactly step by step what happened all along the way, we were just always not having enough space, not having enough material, not having enough as the community just grew around us.   And so it's just wonderful that that momentum has been … has continued.  Because there was a lot of momentum and public support when we … I was always on the phone calling for volunteers.  At one point, for volunteers for the M.E.S.S., and the minute they heard my name and “Cedar Mill”, “Ooo-kay, I will do it again.”  And so the community was extremely supportive. 

19:23: Mary:  And also we went … we did a lot of things with AM Northwest (local TV program).  We appeared on that, and got our name in the newspapers.  So we did a lot of outreach in the community to … to have our name seen, and our activities reported on.  We got a lot of good support from all of those agencies that we went to.  Harry Bodine was a reporter at the time, so we always got him to say a few good words about us.  And AM Northwest was always very cooperative.  So those were some of the things that we did to … to stay alive.  But it all helped.  However, the community was just extremely supportive, and continued to donate books, and we then had a budget where we could buy books. 

20:22:  Mary:  And I'm thinking that Mary Jane was our first paid employee, outside of CETA.  So she was here early on. 

20:39:  Mark:  So when you look back now … you talked a little bit about this … but thinking of where the Library’s at now, is this … can you ever have imagined that it would be a library this size … working this way … with a branch library? 

Mary:  Yeah. Yes. Yes.  It isn’t a surprise, let me put it that way. 

Mark:  Ok.  Well, that’s good to know. 

Mary:  Yeah, that’s what we were … that was the whole hope, that it would be here forever, and that it would continue to grow to meet the needs of the community, in many ways.  And we were, early on, always very interested in the growth of the children's area, and reaching out to the children in the community. 

21:27: Mark:  So do you have any advice to other communities who are looking at doing something similar?  I know there's a group in Aloha that’s doing something … trying to establish a library over there. 

Mary:  Yes.  Well, I think it's really important to reach out to as many different segments of the community as you can, and to get as many forces involved as possible, and to keep them going.  My feeling always was that for each volunteer that you have, you have the core of a support group in the community.  And so the more volunteers you have, the bigger your core of support grows.  And I think that's what’s kept our levies passing is because we have a lot of volunteers, and each one of them has a lot of friends, and influence within a certain group of people.  And so that way it really gets a lot of support throughout the community.  So that would be … my advice is to just get a lot of volunteers, and get their support, and go from there. 

22:48: Mark:  Sounds like good advice.  Well, that’s the extent of our questions.  Is there anything else that you want to add, that you’ve thought of while you've been going through these? 

Mary:  Well, it was just a great experience for me.  And of course I'm still involved, and will be until I can’t do it.  And it's just rewarding to see what has happened, and I've been rewarded by having wonderful friends as a result of all of this.  I guess one of the things that surprises me, or not really, it's just that technology … the technology that has changed the way that we … that the library is seen now, with computers and all of that.  So just in general, not specific to our library, but all of them, and how it still is a great resource, providing all of those new technologies.    (recording splice)    23:49: Mark:  At this point, Mary added a few more details about the resale shop and Second Edition, which we added here. 

(recording splice) 

Mary:  … store, but a resale shop, that was … had high standards.  ‘Cause that's what we wanted in the community, rather than just another Goodwill kind of store.  And we've done that, we've made it a first class shop all along.  And then when we were having the M.E.S.S., Ken Findley was also on our Board along the way, so he would be a good resource also, but he was always very supportive, giving us equipment and just all kinds of help in setting up, and allowing us to use their property, for the sale.  And just giving us as much help as we needed.  So that was always appreciated. 

Mark:  So I'm not familiar with … what business did he … 

Mary:  Ken Findley was Odus Bales’ stepson.  So he was part of the Bales organization.    (recording splice)    25:03: Mary:  And we would go and tell our sad story, or our interesting story, to furniture suppliers … anything that we needed, we would go in force with a couple of us and give our wonderful story and get discounts, and get donations.  Maury (Maurice Packer, Mary’s husband) got a lot of donations through Fred Meyer.  When we set up the resale shop, they had a lot of extra materials and fixtures that we got from them.  And so we just went wherever we could, and got what we could get for less than anyone else was paying, so that helped a lot.  That was one of the challenges that went along with not enough funding, we just never could buy anything without getting some kind of a discount.  So they all knew us down there, in the SE business district, where they were selling things, and we would go through their warehouses and find … Grand + Benedicts had a used section, and we would … I (think) it was seven stories, and we’d roam through that finding what we needed, and getting it for … sometimes, oh, well you could just have that.  So that was both for the library and for Second Edition.  Lee Brenner was great at it too; she would go and (chuckle) get all kinds of stuff. 

26:44: Mark:  Well thank you very much for coming to talk to us about this. 

Mary:  Thank you.  It's been a pleasure. 

(end music) 

Members of the Cedar Mill Community Teen Library Council met in January of 2012 to discuss several soon to be published books (and some already published).  The teens discuss what worked, what didn't, who might like the book and whether the covers helped or hurt the book.  The list of books discussed are as follows:

Members of the Cedar Mill Library's Teen Library Council discuss recently published and soon to be published books in November of 2011.  Books discussed are The Future of Us by Jay Asher and Carolyn Mackler, Shattered Souls by Mary Lindsey, Take a Bow by Elizabeth Eulberg, Tilt by Alan Cumyn, Vanished by Sheela Chari and Wings of the Wicked by Courtney Allison Moulton.

This recording took place at Sunset High School in May 2011 as part of the Cedar Mill Library's ongoing oral history project to record local immigration stories.  Sunset High School teacher Matt Hiefield interviewed Eduardo Corona about the differences between Mexico and living in Oregon.

This interview is a part of our continuing set of Oral History interviews with local immigrants. Dolores immigrated to the United States from Argentina with her family in 2001, settling first in Southern California then moving to Oregon after significant social and financial upheavals in Argentina.  The interview was conducted at Sunset High School in May 2011.

This interview is a part of our continuing set of Oral History interviews with local immigrants.  Veronica shares with us what life is like for an immigrant not only in the US, but also in Southeast Asia.  She discusses the differences between Argentina and the US, particularly in regards to her children and their education.  This interview was conducted at Sunset High School in May 2011.

This interview is a part of our continuing set of Oral History interviews with local immigrants.  Luis discusses with a Sunset high school student what it is like to be an immigrant in Oregon from Mexico, what the differences are, what he misses and doesn't miss and how he and his family ended up in Oregon. This interview with Luis Amezcua was conducted at Sunset High School in May 2011.

This interview is a part of our continuing set of Oral History interviews with local immigrants.  Luis discusses with a Sunset high school student what it is like to be an immigrant in Oregon from Mexico, what the differences are, what he misses and doesn't miss and how he and his family ended up in Oregon. This interview with Luis Amezcua was conducted at Sunset High School in May 2011.

Oral History 2011 Luis Amezcua

Mark: You are listening to the Cedar Mill Community Library’s 2011 Oral History Series recorded at Sunset High School, where high school students interviewed local immigrants to learn about what it means to be an immigrant in America and in Oregon. This year we interviewed several immigrants from Mexico, Latin America and South America. This interview is with Luis Amezcua, a Mexican immigrant working in a high-tech field here in Oregon. So enjoy!

(00:30) Interviewer: My name is Caitlyn Herzmann, a Sunset senior from Sunset High School and today I am interviewing.

Luis Amezcua: Luis Amezcua, my name, from Mexico City.

(00:43) Interviewer: Were you born there?

Luis Amezuca: Yes, I was born in Mexico City.

(00:46) Interviewer: Have you stayed there a majority of your life?

Luis Amezuca: Yes. After college I moved to another city for Grad school.

(00:54) Interviewer: When did you come to Portland?

Luis Amezuca: I came to Portland in 2007.

(1:00) Interviewer: Why did you come here?

Luis Amezuca: I moved from San Diego; I moved here for work.

(1:06) Interviewer: You came for work.

Luis Amezuca: Pretty much running away from the high cost of California.

(1:11) Interviewer: Okay, okay! What do you work as here?

Luis Amezuca: I work as a Software Engineer.

(1:17) Interviewer: Software Engineer, nice! Did you come with your family here?

Luis Amezuca: Yes!

(1:23) Interviewer: With your wife and children?

Luis Amezuca: Yes. My wife is not Mexican. That’s another different thing. My wife is American. She was born in Washington D.C.

(1:31) Interviewer: Did you meet her in California?

Luis Amezuca: No, I met her in Washington, no we met in Mexico. Then we moved to Washington D.C. Then we moved to California, then we moved to Oregon.

(1:41) Interviewer: Very nice! All over the place here! Alright!

Luis Amezuca: We met in Mexico and we start dating in Mexico.

(1:48) Interviewer: So why did you come to Oregon instead of staying in California?

Luis Amezuca: Cost of living.

(1:53) Interviewer: Cost of living? Alright, less expensive here. What were the biggest challenges that you faced coming here?

Luis Amezuca: Here in Oregon? Ok! The weather.

(2:04) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: My experience moving to the U.S., that was very cultural shock was. Because to me it doesn’t make a difference, U.S. or Washington D.C or Oregon is pretty much the same to me. There is differences and I know that people from here think that the East Coast is so different; but to me it is very similar.

(2:25) Interviewer: Okay! How or what were your feelings when you came to Washington D.C? What were the differences that were noticeable?

Luis Amezuca: That is very different! For once l really miss the food. That was the thing that I missed.

(2:39) Interviewer: What were your favorite foods that you missed?

Luis Amezuca: My mom’s cooking.

(2:41) Interviewer: (Laughs)

Luis Amezuca: Well like home cooking, you know because in Mexico that’s what you do. You don’t go to restaurants as much; you pretty much eat at home. Like when I was living in different place, when I was going to grad school, we used have these places where you get home food.

(3:00) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: It is not very sophisticated or what you think of Mexican food, but it is something that I really miss.

(3:11) Interviewer: What would be the main Mexican dish that you would normally make?

Luis Amezuca: Me? I don’t cook!

(3:17) Interviewer: Or your mother would make?

Luis Amezuca: (Laughing) I don’t cook!

(3:19) Interviewer: I know! What would your mother make?

Luis Amezuca: I don’t know. So, what I really miss is, things that I don’t eat very often in Mexico. For example, in Christmas we eat certain things and special occasions those are the ones that are really elaborate that I miss. But also, the little things like the cheeses, they are very different, the beans, they are never made the same. They put sugar in beans here, for me that’s almost blasphemy. You guys put sugar in beans, like its sweet. So I am much used to more spicy food, you know what I mean. Anyway, that’s basically, one of the first things that shock me. Also, you have to follow rules all the time.

(4:07) Interviewer: Okay! What were the main rules that you find hard to follow?

Luis Amezuca: Everything! Like traffic rules!

(4:13) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: Living in Mexico you don’t follow rules! You go by instinct and non-written rules, like for example, you can always pass like a red light if there is no a cop around, that’s a rule!

(4:27) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: And get caught! But it’s ok! You know what I mean? You grew up with that and you don’t think there’s a place where actually people follow rules or respect rules. So, it wasn’t like shocking, but to me it was like very different experience.

(4: 45) Interviewer: What year did you move to Washington D.C?

Luis Amezuca: 1998

(4:50) Interviewer: What were the main events going on in?

Luis Amezuca: So, we moved because my wife was going back to grad school.

(4:55) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: She wasn’t my wife. And she told me that I was going to be able to go to grad school in the U.S. Because in the U.S everything is fine and peachy! But it is not if you’re an immigrant, I didn’t have a visa to go to school! So we find out the hard way that it is not so hard for somebody from here to get some kind of stipend and help to go to grad school, especially in Science; but for somebody who has no, you know, no means or no money nor like already applied for a school, and get through the whole process, trying to get financial help, it was very difficult. So, I gave up on the idea of going back to grad school and start working.

(5:45) Interviewer: Where did you start working?

Luis Amezuca: So first, I couldn’t work legally because I was here with a tourist visa.

(5:53) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: So, I have to work, just helping people out and stuff. Her brother has a business. So I helped him out a little bit. That was until I was able to get a work permit. And then I start working in another company. What I was doing like Lab Tech. They call it scientist. But it was really lab tech, because what you do is basically help people, like the senior researcher and stuff on their experiments and do data analysis and things. So that was what I start working on. I was really really underpaid. I realized that that’s their I realized that they were making more money than me.

(5:38) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: That’s another thing, in the U.S. nobody talks about how much you make. Nobody says that ever! In Mexico it is kind of like, ok you say, hey how much you make? So..

(6:49) Interviewer: Did you go back to school after you got work permit?

Luis Amezuca: No! After in the U.S I have not been back to school. I took some classes, some programming.

(6:58) Interviewer: Nice! You have made it all the way up, by not, just by no school! Very nice!

Luis Amezuca: The thing is I gave up working on Science, which is what I really like! So programming is easy. It pays really well, way better than when I was working in Science, you have to have a Ph.D. to get somewhere. Everybody where was working in that field, everybody without Ph.D. was making peanuts. And not even like Ph.D.’s were making that much money. First the job that I got I thought I asked for a lot of money and they were like, not sure, they didn’t want to hire me because I was asking for too little. So that’s how I didn’t even know I thought I was asking like too much, but I thought I want to take my chance; but they were like, “we were wondering why you were asking so little?!” I was like, oops, I would have asked for more if I knew.

(7: 58) Interviewer: Do you remember what that wage was that you asked for?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah! I asked for, I was making 50 grand a year and I asked for 65.

(8:06) Interviewer: Mm hmm.

Luis Amezuca: And I was like, oh my God, I am asking, no way they are going to give me a job. I went too far and they gave me job, but everybody was making 70 or 75. During that period I went to four or five companies in three or four years. Every time  I got a new job and got a new raise like 10 and 15 grand.

(8:30) Interviewer: Good!

Luis Amezuca: Because, it is easy to get a raise than staying in that place and you get 2% or something.

(8:38) Interviewer: When you first moved to the United States, how was your English?

Luis Amezuca: I was able to read but not write.

(8:47) Interviewer: Not write! How was speaking?

Luis Amezuca: Speaking, I thought I was able to, but nobody understood me.

(8:52) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: Still some people have trouble, I have to slow down and sometimes people don’t understand my pronunciation, but I think it is better now than before, just out of practice.

(9:05) Interviewer: How was that a challenge when you got here in trying to get employed or getting your visa for work permit?

Luis Amezuca: To get a work permit there is no problem. You don’t need to speak English.

(9:15) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: They never ask you for that! Even for citizenship they don’t ask you really. They ask, I mean the question they asked me was so simple. That I was like wow, I could have done this when I was in high school. This English test that I did for citizenship. So it’s very very easy.

(9:35) Interviewer: When did you become a citizen?

Luis Amezuca: Right before the Kerry election. 2004? Yes 2004

(9:43) Interviewer: Okay! Did you get back through your wife or

Luis Amezuca: Yes!

(9:48) Interviewer: So was it the case ….

Luis Amezuca: It’s easy! Because when you marry a U.S. citizen and we went through the interview and they asked questions. Hey you guys marry for the papers? I was like did we have to kiss?

(10:04) Interviewer: Yeah!

Luis Amezuca: And we didn’t have any proof and we have photos of Mexico and those guys saw that obviously we didn’t marry for the papers, you know. We have been together for five years at that point or something and we have.. so anyway, that’s how I got the, it wasn’t a real problem; I know that it is difficult for people who go through different avenues. But going through that particular one was easy, the work permit was also easy.

(10:40) Interviewer: Did you face any racial discrimination when you first moved to Washington D.C.?

Luis Amezuca: I had to come from my own idea of what is discrimination. But I have, not as much as in D.C. as in .. so. The time that I felt it the most wasn’t even, no word was spoken. But I felt so uncomfortable. I was driving through Pennsylvania, the rural area. We were going from D.C. to Niagara Falls. So this is a very diverse area. So where my wife grew up, she was in the minority. I mean, its mostly Black. And I start interact along with black people like in the basketball court. So I always love playing basketball. So I start playing; I feel a little discriminated because they assumed that I didn’t even know how to play. You know what I mean?

(11:34) Interviewer: Yeah!

Luis Amezuca: But it wasn’t like bad. It was like this guy probably sucks. And then I started playing with them; and I wasn’t the best but I wasn’t the worst; I was able to keep up with them. But it is funny, at one point somebody told me, so they weren’t sure if I was.. because I didn’t talk a lot, you remember seeing people playing basketball, black people playing basketball, when they are like mostly blacks; I think they act different when they are mostly black; when they are in a non-black environment, you know what I mean? But when they are in the Hood, they act different and they talk a lot and it looks like they’re gonna fight a lot; they talk trash a lot; and they’re really like physical but never get to the point where they fight; never that I saw, I guess I have; it just feels that way, it’s kind of feels intimidating at first, so I didn’t talk a lot. I just played, right? But some of them didn’t know if I really spoke English or not, they talked to me, but they were like, I don’t know if this guy understands, and then one guy told me, you can probably not even tell us apart; we all look alike. That’s kind of a racial connotation and I said, “Yeah, you guys all look alike”. So, he was like shocked, because I was being racist because that sounds racist. But to me coming from a place where you’ve never seen black people, its like the first time you see Chinese people, they pretty much look alike; because we are not conditioned to see the difference. So now I know, that for people that have never seen Mexican they probably all look alike. That’s the not the same as being racist, it’s just the fact, just because you’re not used to them. After a while, then you start like seeing them and how they are different but just different in different ways. You know what I mean? But when I felt discriminated was in a place where it is not diverse at all; the first time I saw white people working in McDonalds. That’s when I knew I was in white country because if you go to McDonalds there was always black or Hispanic; at least in D.C. right, so. But I went to Pennsylvania and I went to McDonalds and the guy working in the counter was white; but when I walked in that place, I felt so bad, because everybody looks at me, like what are you doing here, you’re know what I mean? I don’t know, nobody say a word, but I felt so uncomfortable, to the point that I felt almost threated, that I just walked out.

(14:13) Interviewer: Oh, you just walked out?

Luis Amezuca: I didn’t get my burger, I was like Okay

(14:19) Interviewer: Were they all white inside?

Luis Amezuca: Everybody! Everybody in the town! So if people working in McDonald’s is white, then that town is white. That’s how you can say. (laughing) I don’t know! Kind of that’s what I’ve seen. Usually minorities work in McDonalds, Asian, whatever. But that’s the time I felt.. it wasn’t like a discrimination, per se but I just felt really out of place. I wanted to be out of there as soon as possible. You feel the tension and stuff so went back to the car and told my wife; you go get the burger. She’s white, so I was like, ok, you go get the burger!

(14:58) Interviewer: What differences were the most obvious to you when you came here?

Luis Amezuca: Differences, as in? The sun doesn’t work, like, I never saw a sunny day that is called in Mexico, you don’t have that! The sun is not called, it is guaranteed. And in Mexico City it can’t get cold because it is really high, so you get like even frost and you get like ice on top of, like you know if you leave a bucket of water outside you get ice on top, so

(15:30) Interviewer: How about snow?

Luis Amezuca: There’s no humidity, because it’s kind of dry. It would probably snow if it was raining, but its kind of dry, the winter especially is dry; its surrounded by volcanoes, Mexico City. So there’s always no volcanoes; but that’s even in summer. But as soon as the sun comes out, boom, it’s warm. In D.C. it was sunny and it was so cold! I was like what’s wrong with this, that’s surprising. I don’t know, it’s just weird that’s just one of the things that struck me. The sun doesn’t work here.  I don’t know! Like I say, the food, the fact that people don’t talk as much to strangers and stuff! So, in Mexico everybody uses public transportation pretty much, because it is crowded, that if you want to drive downtown, good luck! You can never find a parking spot, ever! And you have to pay parking anyway, so it’s just easier to take the Metro or something. And people talk, you know to strangers and stuff. And you know, small talk, whatever. But here you don’t like look at people in the eye, people think, and I even learned the word for that. You have a word for that, it’s called staring, right?

(16:55) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: That word doesn’t exist in Spanish! That concept doesn’t exist. If you’re looking at somebody, you’re looking at somebody, you know. In D.C. it happened to me, I was looking at a black guy and he felt like I was trying to fight him or something. He says, “what you’re looking at?” He was with another guy; he was with three young kids, right but I was looking at them because I was really like, looking at different people, you know I was like in a different place in the world, so like if  you go to Japan, you probably look, oh man people here are different, so you look at them. So I learned that you cannot look at them.

(17:32) Interviewer: Okay, okay!

Luis Amezuca: He felt like I was threatening, kind of like threatening way, but I wasn’t I was just looking at him. He was really aggressive towards me, like “what you’re looking at? “like really coming at me, and I was like, “Nothing!”.

(17:49) Interviewer: How long did you stay in Washington, D.C.?

Luis Amezuca: Three and a half years.

(17:54) Interviewer: So, you got some snow while you were there.

Luis Amezuca: Yeah!

(17:56) Interviewer: Is that when the sun came and you were cold?  

Luis Amezuca: No, see, in winter there doesn’t even need to be snow. Its colder in Oregon. Not Oregon, I guess Portland is not as cold as Bend or La Grande or something. But yeah it is cold in winter!

(18:13) Interviewer: So, was that a lot different from Mexico?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah, it’s not cold in Mexico. I guess in the nights it gets cold, but as soon as the sun comes out, it’s not warm, but it gets to the 50s, 60s you know.

(18:25) Interviewer: Okay. So, you were like almost like regionalized shocked of the different temperatures?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah and the seasons, right? In Mexico the season like, summer is warmer but here in this year specially, it’s so extreme; summers are so hot, way hotter than Mexico City. It’s like very hot it’s like in the 100s and its very humid and winter its cold. So, you get and you also see the seasons. You know you don’t have that as marked in Mexico. So that was another part. But I think, mostly it’s the people. How different it is to be in a place, like a different country, like a different continent I really like the fact that I was able to meet people from Africa, from Russia. When I was working, I get along with Russian really well because well there were two of them. I guess, I get along better with foreigners because we shared the same as.. you know like Americans who were born and raised here, I mean they were nice to us, everybody was; it was not a discrimination thing it was like they have more in common with the other guys from the same town, they talk about this show in the 70s and I was like, I wasn’t here or this show; they talk about shows in T.V. or movies and I was like, people assume in that U.S. that everybody watches American movies.

(19:57) Interviewer: I see. Yeah definitely!

Luis Amezuca: But sometimes it’s the case, but not always, you know. Like somebody was shocked that I didn’t know about the O.J. Simpson’s trial. And they were like, “how come you don’t know about that, it’s so important!” and I was like, probably was important here. In the big scheme of things, who cares?

(20:15) Interviewer: What was pop culture like in Mexico City?

Luis Amezuca: Oh, Mexico City has its own thing. So, we do have a lot of American influence. Not as much in the border, in the border towns in Mexico, like they even speak Spanglish, right? We have a word for parking, but they call parker. Which sounds like parking. So they use like Spanglish.

(20:46) Interviewer: I do that! I do better!

Luis Amezuca: What? You would not understand, no, they pronounce it differently. Kind of in-between.

(20:58) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: So, I just want to make sure! But definitely there is a lot of American influence, especially American music. Not American as much as British I guess, because, the better groups are British right? Like especially, maybe not now, but you talk about the 70s, 60s, 80s, U-2, Rolling stones, like all the bands that actually like survive, the classics are actually most of them are British.

(21:33) Interviewer: Yes!

Luis Amezuca: In Mexico you didn’t even know that they are British. In English they’re probably from the U.S. you know Americans like, even though they are not. But you don’t really know that. So you just..I used to sing the Beatles when I was a baby. They tell me, I don’t know.

(21:49) Interviewer: Okay! In terms of news and media how did you receive it in Mexico City?

Luis Amezuca: So it’s so local. TV, like There’s like two big TV almost like a monopoly, there used to be one and another one popped. So, if you want to know about Mexico you don’t watch T.V. news. Because they really are reading whatever the government position is on certain issues. And they actually are more critical of the U.S. and other countries they assume, a better role of criticizing and analyzing. So for me, when I start going to college, then I start reading newspapers because newspapers are more critical of the government and I think more objective from my point of view.  They praise the government when they do some good things and they criticize, and then T.V. you never hear any criticism of the government, never never. But that’s what most people consume. The government figured out we control the T.V, who cares about newspaper, that’s only about 5% of the population who read the paper.

(23:05) Interviewer: What do you like most about Oregon living here now?

Luis Amezuca: so, I think it’s a nice place to raise a family. Its kind of my view and illusion, it might not be true. So, I am making good money, use as much money as in California and the cost of living is way less! So I was in San Diego I was living in the Hood, really. You couldn’t afford to live in a nice area. Here we live in a nice area, where you know it’s not, you know; when I was living in San Diego, my neighbors I saw the SWAT teams coming multiple times and you hear, this guy got shot, this neighbor, he’s dead, he got shot. You’re like, you don’t want your kids to grow up in that environment, so we really like that about Oregon. We live here in Bethany, not so far from here. So, our kids, they go to good schools, you know it’s just, that’s I think the biggest, biggest thing. We don’t like that it rains a lot and I mean in San Diego we used to go the beach a lot, right, we were just ten minutes from the beach we just pack our stuff, and you know, the problem was just getting parking, but you know that is a minor thing. But it was nice and convenient. But it was high price to pay, I think. I also really like the fact that the best part for me in San Diego was Tijuana. It was like 20 minutes; you just have to cross the border. The problem is crossing back because there’s a long line but it was nice because you could get a hair cut in Tijuana, free, me as a Mexican; you can get medicines, anti-biotics and things is way cheaper. Here you can order meds from Canada right, and its cheaper. But in Tijuana it is way cheaper, even though it is more expensive than anywhere else in Mexico, because they know it’s right next to the border and Americans go buy medicine.

(25:09) Interviewer: okay!

Luis Amezuca: But still its more expensive in Mexico but its way cheaper but like a third. Sometimes it was cheaper than the co-pay that we pay for the medicine.

(25:16) Interviewer: Wow, alright!

Luis Amezuca: I don’t know why they charge so much for medicine.

(25:22) Interviewer: Did you notice anything different between curfew that you grew up with?

Luis Amezuca: Yes, it is very different.

(25:31) Interviewer: What types of differences?

Luis Amezuca: Completely different! Like it will be hard for me to find similarities. So yeah, I don’t like this. I hate the fact they have social promotion; you know what is that? Like in Mexico let say you are in fourth grade; and if you don’t pass, you don’t have passing grades in everything you don’t go to fifth grade. Here you go to fifth grade, just because you’re alive! Just because you’re alive you go to fifth grade. I don’t like that. I think that would encourage the kids not to care.

(26:10) Interviewer: Like, they’ll get there anyways!

Luis Amezuca: Yeah, they’ll get there anyways. Who cares if they pass or not!

(26:16) Interviewer: What were some of the cultural morals in Mexico that you’d like Americans to take on that would be better for our culture?

Luis Amezuca: Pacifism. Peace is better than war. For some people that’s kind of a shocker but for me its obvious. I think that people here, they try to isolate; the American culture is like a bubble and I don’t think they take influence from other countries very well; or I don’t know, they don’t even care what’s going on in the world, it’s very American-centric, I think. As soon as I moved to the U.S. I stopped finding books from European authors that I used to read like Milan Kundera and also, I stopped watching French and British and Italian movies because in Mexico City you can find those. That’s the good part of being in a big city, even though like only 10% of the people care about foreign films, that’s 2 million people, right? Because there are 20 million people so 10% of 20 is still a lot of people. So, you have a lot of places to go and I miss that, here it is very American centric like the literature and the movies. They tend to think that the American problems, the American problems are of the world dimension. Like the world series in baseball which has nothing of the world, it’s just U.S. teams.

(27:53) Interviewer: No other teams like no Japanese or?

Luis Amezuca: They have Japanese players but that doesn’t make it the world cup. Like in the Mexican league there are Brazilian players and they don’t call it the Mexican championships. The world series is not a world series; nobody knows about the world series outside the U.S. and it’s called world series.

Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: It should be called the American series, right? You know that kind of stuff. If it’s good for the U.S. it is good for the world kind of attitude.

(28:21) Interviewer: Yeah!

Luis Amezuca: I noticed that as a foreigner. I can see now things that are bothering me about the Mexican culture that I see because I am outside, that I didn’t see when I was living there. You know you can see better your culture when you’re outside than when you’re embedded on it. So, it’s not surprising that most people don’t even think about those things because you live your whole life here, right?

(28:48) Interviewer: So, what do you miss most about Mexico?

Luis Amezuca: Miss? I used to miss the food; but I guess I don’t guess anymore! I don’t miss many things anymore. Other than my family really. I mean, it’s been what, from ’98 to now; thirteen years, too late for me to miss things. Sometimes, I don’t even know if I am idealizing the Mexico 15 years ago, that doesn’t even exist anymore. Mexico changed too; you know what I mean? Because I moved out of the country, the country stays!

(29:29) Interviewer: How often do you go back to visit?

Luis Amezuca: So, about every two years or something.

(29:37) Interviewer: When you were living in California, did you go back more often?

Luis Amezuca: Oh yeah! I didn’t go to Mexico City; I went to Tijuana.

(29:43) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: Which is not the same; but at least something. (Laughs) At least you can get good tacos, fish tacos.

(29:52) Interviewer: Okay! What would you say the difference is between, what we call Mexican food here and what you know about Mexican food?

Luis Amezuca: So, Burritos, for example don’t exist in Mexico City. I think that most of the food that you guys get here as Mexican is from North Mexico, like Sonora and Chihuahua, that’s where burritos and Chimichangas and all of those things are from. And it’s kind of different from the food from Central Mexico, where I am from. So, I think that’s the main difference.

(30:31) Interviewer: What are the most important lessons that you’ve learnt while integrating into this country?

Luis Amezuca: Lesson that I learned is that you have to have an open mind, when you are talking to people from other cultures and don’t have any assumptions that they understand what you’re saying. Because in my culture we tend to talk less; in your culture there is always like, we need to talk about everything, vent everything right? You go to a party in the U.S. it is all about talking. You go to a party in Mexico, it’s all about dancing and drinking. Its what people do, even the grandmas. You don’t see that here, the Grandmas drinking and dancing; it’s not like—but here people talk right? But that’s a good thing too. You know, you need to talk. But in Mexico it’s more like you send signals and you say things like in more subtle ways..

(31:27) Interviewer: More socializing?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah, but not straight. Sometimes those signals work in your culture that people understand that grow up with you, you cannot translate that into people of other cultures and other countries and to me it’s been fascinating to learn the difference and also the similarities between me and somebody from Eritrea, a country in Africa, but we share things in common, like and the differences too. I don’t know; I think that the most valuable lesson is have an open mind, and don’t assume that they understand what they’re saying when you try to say something.

(32:11) Interviewer: What were the biggest challenges you faced?

Luis Amezuca: I think the life here is very safe, but not very fun! So, I always tell my wife that living in U.S. is like living in a hospital; you’re safe, you’re taken care of, your future is kind of safe, but you don’t want to live in a hospital, you know!  But on the same token when I go back to Mexico and I feel the chaos and I feel that safely is not anybody’s concern. Then you feel like maybe I am getting soft, and I am getting more Americanized than I was willing to admit. I don’t think I could live in Mexico City; I drive like an old lady now.

(33:04) Interviewer: Okay!

Luis Amezuca: Even though here they call me California driver, in Mexico City that’s like an old lady driving. That’s one thing, I don’t know; I am not used to, the whole living, so nervous about things. It’s hard to explain, like things happen in Mexico that makes you realize that your life is not really in your hands, that you don’t have control of your whole life, or your whole destiny; things happen and you might die next day.

(33:40) Interviewer: So was your wife moving back to Washington D.C. to finish her degree, the only reason you came to the United States or what else did you come for?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah! I wanted to be with her. I was really in love with my then girlfriend.

(34:00) Interviewer: Soon to be wife?

Luis Amezuca: Yeah! I would have followed her. She told me later that she would have stayed if I didn’t come. But I didn’t think she was going to stay; because I was in Grad school there, so I didn’t finish my grad school there because I moved here hoping that I would be able to enroll in a program in the U.S.; but it never happened. It’s very expensive! In Mexico you get paid to go to school or college.

(34:32) Interviewer: That’s a difference!

Luis Amezuca: Well maybe not I guess paid, but if you go to science and you get good grades, you can get qualified but it is free and here it is just so expensive. So, it’s not completely free, but I probably paid $20 per semester or something like that and it’s just for paper-work basically. I don’t understand why in the U.S. with so much money and such rich country, they cannot provide education for the people, I just don’t get it!

(35:00) Interviewer: So, if you were going to give advice to some incoming immigrant from somewhere what would be the one?

Luis Amezuca: People are not used to, especially people coming to work that never made any money, they work as day laborers in Mexico, you know where you make three bucks a day; you really don’t have the money, you pay for the next meal and that’s it; you’re broke again right, back to normal. I would say like you’re gonna earn some money now don’t just waste it; save.

(35:35) Interviewer: Save all that money!

Luis Amezuca: Because who knows what tomorrow is going to come, because situation might change, nothing lasts forever!

(35:48) Interviewer: Alright, thank you!

Storyteller Kelly Hoffman performed "A Cacophony of Classics" at the library on April 11, 2011 as part of the countywide Hearing Voices storytelling festival.  Kelly delivered a vibrant, evocative evening of tales from a variety of sources in front of a packed audience.  Kelly described her performance this way, "Classic tales taken from legends and great literature meet in this performance sure to take you on the adventure ride of your life. Conflict scenes may be too intense for non-school age children."  We are pleased to offer the audio for everyone.  Enjoy!