Change Order Podcast

Today’s guest is Neil Nie, Co-Founder and CEO at Verne Robotics.

Neil left his PhD to start Verne, a physical AI company building general purpose robots for packout, logistics and light manufacturing. He built a self-driving golf cart in high school, worked on computer vision at Apple, and was turned down by Y Combinator four times before Verne got in.

His argument is that the value in robotics will land with whoever deploys the robot and owns the customer relationship. He explains how Verne trains its robots on site with a single teleoperator, why its models run on the robot with no network needed, and how it prices pilots so a customer can start small.

In the conversation with Jason, we get into: 

• What it takes to train a robot on site

• Why own the whole stack?

• Where the value in robotics lands

• Why run robots without Wi-Fi?

• Robot as a service and financing

• Why not build a humanoid?

  
  

Timestamps

(00:00) Neil Nie's path to robotics

(06:51) What Verne builds and lessons from YC

(13:41) Why now for physical AI

(16:25) Owning the stack and where value lands

(20:36) Training robots on the job

(30:43) Speed and running offline

(37:15) Humanoids, pricing and financing

(45:43) From pilot to enterprise contract

(49:38) Safety and lessons from the field

(53:55) Rapid fire and predictions

Change Order is hosted by Jason Shuman, General Partner at Primary. Each episode explores the turning points that define today’s leading operators and investors.

Follow us on LinkedIn and subscribe on YouTube.

Today’s guest is Evan Beard, Co-Founder, CEO and Chief Engineer at Standard Bots.

Evan has spent a decade building robots that factory teams can install and reprogram themselves. Standard Bots raised $200 million at a $1 billion valuation in June 2026. Their robots now span 300-plus use cases, with applications including machining, welding and palletizing.

China installed 59% of the world’s new industrial robots in 2025. Evan’s argument for American manufacturing starts with making automation practical for the people running the factory.

He joins Jason, who invested at pre-seed. We get into:

• The costs beyond the robot

• Why build the hardware yourself?

• Who captures the value in physical AI?

• How systems integrators adapt

• Scaling American robot manufacturing

• The case for wheels before legs

  
  

Timestamps

0:00 Evan Beard’s path to robotics

4:59 What manufacturers actually need

12:55 Building a robotics platform

23:20 The real cost of automation

29:18 AI, robot learning and adoption

43:29 Where systems integrators fit

47:16 Scaling American robotics

53:41 Lessons for founders

57:23 Wheels, legs and robots at home

Change Order is hosted by Jason Shuman, General Partner at Primary. Each episode explores the turning points that define today’s leading operators and investors.

Follow us on LinkedIn and subscribe on YouTube.

Dan Mishin is the Founder and CEO of Manifest OS, an AI-native legal infrastructure platform helping lawyers double their income by eliminating non-legal work. Before Manifest, he founded June Homes and learned hard lessons about business fundamentals.

Dan and Jason discuss why lawyers spend two-thirds of their time doing non-legal work, and how Manifest uses AI to handle everything from business development to case prioritization.

They also cover the psychology of restarting after failure, why hustling doesn't matter if your fundamentals are wrong, and how having no options can be liberating.

Find more like this on Change Order.

Dan Mishin is the Founder and CEO of Manifest OS, an AI-native legal infrastructure platform helping lawyers double their income by eliminating non-legal work. Before Manifest, he founded June Homes and learned hard lessons about business fundamentals.

Dan and Jason discuss why lawyers spend two-thirds of their time doing non-legal work, and how Manifest uses AI to handle everything from business development to case prioritization.

They also cover the psychology of restarting after failure, why hustling doesn't matter if your fundamentals are wrong, and how having no options can be liberating.

Find more like this on Change Order.

Connect with us here:

Dan Mishin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielmishin/

Jason Shuman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

00:00 Introduction

02:30 From Crimea to Berlin: The Origin of a Business Idea

09:45 Building a Hostel Empire Across 13 Countries

21:30 Exiting a Business and the Decision to Start Over

29:00 Arriving in America: The First Call That Changed Everything

38:00 Why He Refused to Build Another Legal Software Company

47:30 Inside Manifest OS: Reimagining How Legal Work Gets Done

57:00 Global Expansion and the Future of Legal Services

AI is changing what it means to be good at your job.

Dan Shipper, co-founder and CEO of Every, shares how he went from productivity writer to leading an AI-native company running six apps with a lean team, without being a full-time engineer.

In this episode with Jason Shuman, Dan gets into:

- how shipping work now looks more like directing - systems than writing code

- why managing AI feels like running a company

- how compound systems prevent the same mistakes from happening again

- why allocation is becoming the most important skill heading into 2026

This episode offers a clear look at how founders and operators are adapting as AI reshapes how work gets done.

Connect with us here:

Dan Shipper: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danshipper/

Jason Shuman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

Every Inc: https://www.linkedin.com/company/everyinc/

Change Order: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

When’s the last time you had a good customer experience?

Alex Levin, Co-founder and CEO of Regal AI, is building AI Phone Agents that handle millions of customer calls for a small fraction of the cost, and drive higher customer satisfaction. 

In this episode with Jason Shuman, Levin gets into:

• why companies moved away from phone calls despite customer demand.

• how legacy vendors decided voice wasn’t worth improving.

• why AI voice is now cheaper and more consistent than humans.

• what slows big companies from adopting voice AI.

• how AI handles the tier-1 work while humans focus on harder problems.

Connect with us here:

1. Alex Levin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexlevin1

2. Jason Shuman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

3. Change Order: https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

4. Primary Venture Partners: https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/

What if the future of law isn’t about replacing lawyers, but supercharging them?

Ryan Daniels, Co-founder and CEO of Crosby, is building the world’s first AI-powered law firm that blends human judgment with machine speed to handle contracts in hours, not days.

In this episode with Jason Shuman, he discusses:

• why the $1T legal industry is finally ready for automation.

• how Crosby became an AI-first law firm that works through Slack.

• what he learned from India’s legal outsourcing boom.

• why speed is the real edge in legal tech.

• how AI and human lawyers now work side by side.

Connect with us here:

1. Ryan Daniels- https://www.linkedin.com/in/crosbyryan/

2. Jason Shuman- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

3. Change Order- https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

4. Primary Venture Partners- https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/

The pace of innovation has never been faster or harder to follow.

Mario Gabriele, founder of The Generalist, a newsletter and community helping over 150K readers make sense of what matters in tech, AI, and venture, joins Jason Shuman to share how deep research and storytelling help him decode the forces shaping what’s next.

They get into:

• the mental models behind The Generalist’s most-read stories

• why 95% of early stage investing comes down to the founder

• how writing builds sharper intuition than data ever could

Connect with us here:

1. Mario Gabriele- https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariogabriele/

2. Jason Shuman- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

3. Change Order- https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

4. Primary Venture Partners- https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/

00:00 Trailer

01:06 The Generalist: From Concept to Execution

04:12 Writing Process and Research Techniques

13:04 Navigating the Media Landscape and Investment Insights

35:51 Challenges in Seed Stage Investing

36:47 Evaluating Founders: Insights from Hummingbird

45:11 Market Dynamics and AI Bubble

59:00 Lessons from the Generalist's Journey

With emergency response times under three minutes, the future of public safety is airborne.

Rahul Sidhu, co-founder and CEO of Aerodome, joins Jason Shuman on Change Order to share how he and his team are deploying drones as ‘first responders’, combining automation and aviation to transform how cities handle critical events.

Together, they explore:

• how a pandemic-induced staffing crisis gave rise to a new model of air support

• why policing is entering its “guy in the chair” era

• what DJI taught the world about market capture and policy

Connect with us here:

1. Rahul Sidhu- https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulsidhu/

2. Jason Shuman- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

3. Change Order- https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

4. Primary Venture Partners- https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/

What if AI’s most transformative impact starts where we least expect it, in a classroom?

Adeel Khan, former principal and CEO of MagicSchool, turned this insight into an AI platform helping over 6 million educators reduce burnout and elevate teaching.

On Change Order, with Jason Shuman, he shares:

• the role of teachers in guiding AI to personalize learning for each student.

• how MagicSchool became one of the few AI tools approved by multiple districts.

• the importance of trust when scaling AI in sensitive environments like schools.

• how MagicSchool addresses the unique workload of special education teachers.

Connect with us here:

1. Adeel Khan- https://www.linkedin.com/in/adeelkh/

2. Jason Shuman- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/

3. Change Order- https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/

4. Primary Venture Partners- https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/

What if government spending was as searchable as the web?

Justin Wenig, founder & CEO of Starbridge, joins Jason to unpack how his team uses AI and FOIA at scale to make public spending transparent and actionable for both vendors and agencies.

In this episode of Change Order, they get into:

• how FOIA becomes a go-to-market superpower (and how to operationalize it)

• building the largest purchase/contract graph in gov

• why “use it or lose it” budgets entrench waste

• the sales headcount trap in vertical SaaS

• fundraising without “ninja tricks”

Connect with us here:

1. Justin Starbridge- https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinwenig

2. Jason Shuman- https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonshuman/ 

3. Change Order- https://www.linkedin.com/company/change-order/ 

4. Primary Venture Partners- https://www.linkedin.com/company/primary-venture-partners/