CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 83

In this episode of CHAOSScast, Georg and Dawn chat with guest Edward Vielmetti, Developer Partner Manager at Equinix, where he oversees the Open Source Partner Program. Today, they delve into the significance of measuring open source community health using CHAOSS metrics. Edward discusses the importance of providing infrastructure support to open source projects and how Equinix uses CHAOSS metrics to evaluate project health and manage resources efficiently. The discussion also covers the challenges of maintaining open source project health, including governance, code quality, and resources, with insights into predictive metrics and the impact of corporate involvement in open source communities. Press download now to hear more!

[00:01:36] Edward introduces himself, tells us what he does, provides a background on Equinix, and talks about their dedicated cloud offering and support for open source projects. He discusses the absence of formal CHAOSS metrics at Equinix but mentions they compare them with internal considerations to ensure project health.

[00:06:24] Edward talks about external factors like internal conflicts or external shocks to the system and the importance of being a stabilizing force.

[00:9:59] Georg outlines three categories of project health: community activity, code quality, and resources.

[00:10:58] Edward talks about using spend as a top-line metric for resource adequacy and the importance of rapid build and test cycles for software projects.

[00:15:33] Georg acknowledges Edward’s comprehensive view, noting the need for specialized infrastructure beyond what hosting platforms like GitHub and GitLab offer. Edward emphasizes that developing certain kinds of software requires direct access to hardware rather than virtualized environments.

[00:19:06] Dawn brings the conversation back to CHAOSS, mentioning context working groups and Edward’s active participation in the corporate OSPO working group. Edward talks about the challenges at Equinix in forming a formal OSPO and the value of sharing and learning from peers through CHAOSS.

[00:22:33] Dawn appreciated the diversity of companies in the CHAOSS OSPO working group and the broad exchange of ideas. Edward reflects on his long history with open source, noting the evolution and professionalization of the industry.

[00:25:32] Georg asks about the future of open source and CHAOSS’s potential role, and Edward mentions the trend of open source projects changing control for financial gain and discusses how CHAOSS could help predict or quickly identify such changes. He proposes the collection of certain metrics, such as the number of legal notices a project receives, as indicators of the project’s environment.

[00:29:44] Edward shares a story, without taking sides, about Terraform relicensing by HashiCorp and the subsequent forks of Terraform, focusing on the OpenTofu fork and the licensing issues around patching from differently licensed software.

[00:34:05] Georg discusses observing early risk indicators in projects, such as when a single company’s influence increases, potentially raising the risk of unilateral changes, and he expresses a desire for a predictive model for open source project trajectories.

[00:35:44] Dawn calls such predictive modeling difficult due to the rarity of events and stresses the importance of community participation for early detection of issues.

[00:37:53] Georg brings up the Linkerd project’s approach to engaging with the vendor ecosystem and the changes in their release strategy to encourage commercial support, and Edward compares this with CentOS’s transition to CentOS Stream.

[00:41:48] Georg reiterates the value of participation in open source to be aware of and potentially influence project developments.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Dawn Foster

Guest:

Edward Vielmetti

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Edward Vielmetti Blog

Edward Vielmetti Mastodon

Edward Vielmetti LinkedIn

Equinix

OpenTofu Project X/Twitter re: OpenTofu’s legal notice from HashiCorp

xkcd-Compiling

XZ Utils backdoor

UNIX System Laboratories, Inc v. Berkeley Software Design, Inc.

“Betrayal is the Internet’s business model”-Michael Lucas Website

Special Guest: Ed Vielmetti.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 82

In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Dawn Foster brings together Matt Germonprez, Brian Proffitt, and Ashley Wolf to discuss the implications of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on Open Source Program Offices (OSPOs), including policy considerations, the potential for AI-driven contributions to create workload for maintainers, and the quality of contributions. They also touch on the use of AI internally within companies versus contributing back to the open source community, the importance of distinguishing between human and AI contributions, and the potential benefits and challenges AI introduces to open source project health and community metrics. The conversation strikes a balance between optimism for AI’s benefits and caution for its governance, leaving us to ponder the future of open source in an AI-integrated world. Press download to hear more!

[00:03:20] The discussion begins on the role of OSPOs in AI policy making, and Ashley emphasizes the importance of OSPOs in providing guidance on generative AI tools usage and contributions within their organizations.

[00:05:17] Brian observes a conservative reflex towards AI in OSPOs, noting issues around copyright, trust, and the status of AI as not truly open source.

[00:07:10] Matt inquires about aligning different policies from various organizations, like GitHub and Red Hat, with those from the Linux Foundation and Apache Software Foundation regarding generative AI. Brian speaks about Red Hat’s approach to first figure out their policies before seeking alignment with others.

[00:06:45] Ashley appreciates the publicly available AI policies from the Apache and Linux Foundations, noting that GitHub’s policies have been informed by long-term thinking and community feedback.

[00:10:34] Dawn asks about potential internal conflict for GitHub employees given different AI policies at GitHub and other organizations like CNCF and Apache.

[00:12:32] Ashley and Brian talk about what they see as the benefits of AI for OSPOs, and how AI can help scale OSPO support and act as a sounding board for new ideas.

[00:15:32] Matt proposes a scenario where generative AI might increase individual contributions to high-profile projects like Kubernetes for personal gain, potentially burdening maintainers.

[00:18:45] Dawn mentions Daniel Stenberg of cURL who has seen an influx of low-quality issues from AI models, Ashley points out the problem of “drive-by-contributions” and spam, particularly during events like Hacktoberfest, and emphasizes the role of OSPOs in education about responsible contributions, and Brian discusses potential issues with AI contributions leading to homogenization and the increased risk of widespread security vulnerabilities.

[00:22:33] Matt raises another scenario questioning if companies might use generative AI internally as an alternative to open source for smaller issues without contributing back to the community. Ashley states 92% of developers are using AI code generation tools and cautions against creating code in a vacuum, and Brian talks about Red Hat’s approach.

[00:27:18] Dawn discusses the impact of generative AI on companies that are primarily consumers of open source, rarely contributing back, questioning if they might start using AI to make changes instead of contributing. Brian suggests there might be a mixed impact and Ashley optimistically hopes the time saved using AI tools will be redirected to contribute back to open source.

[00:29:49] Brian discusses the state of open source AI, highlighting the lack of a formal definition and ongoing efforts by the OSI and other groups to establish one, and recommends a fascinating article he read from Knowing Machines. Ashley emphasizes the importance of not misusing the term open source for AI until a formal definition is established.

[00:32:42] Matt inquires how metrics can aid in adapting to AI trends in open source, like detecting AI-generated contributions. Brian talks about using signals like time zones to differentiate between corporate contributors and hobbyists, and the potential for tagging contributions from AI for clarity.

[00:35:13] Ashley considers the human aspect of maintainers dealing with an influx of AI-generated contributions and what metrics could indicate a need for additional support, and she mentions the concept of the “Nebraska effect.”

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Dawn Foster

Matt Germonprez

Brian Proffitt

Ashley Wolf

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Matt Germonprez X/Twitter

Brian Proffitt X/Twitter

Ashley Wolf X/Twitter

Ashley Wolf LinkedIn

AI-generated bug reports are becoming a big waste of time for developers (Techspot)

Models All The Way Down- A Knowing Machines Project

xkcd-Dependency

Special Guest: Ashley Wolf.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 80

On today’s episode of CHAOSScast, we focus on the experiences and initiatives of the Open Source Program Office at the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). Host Dawn Foster is joined by Sean Goggins along with guests, Remy DeCausemaker, Natalia Luzuriaga, Isaac Milarsky, and Aayat Ali, all from various backgrounds within the CMS, who share insights into their efforts in maintaining and promoting an open source culture within federal services. Key discussion points include the launch of the CMS’s first open source program office, the development of a maturity model framework to evaluate open source projects, the creation of tools such as Repo Scaffolder and Duplifier to support open source practices, and efforts towards open source software security. This episode emphasizes the distinct aspects of opens source work in government settings compared to the private sector and highlights upcoming presentations at conferences. Download this episode now to hear more!

[00:02:21] Dawn asks about the team’s work at the U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. We start with Remy, who explains the launch of the first open source program office at a federal agency in the U.S. and details CMS’s mission to improve healthcare experience for over 150 million people and the role of the digital service within CMS.

[00:05:36] Natalia discusses the maturity model framework developed to assess the open source maturity level of projects. She describes a “Repo Scaffolder” tool created in collaboration with the U.S. digital response to help projects align with the majority model, and she speaks about additional features for public repositories to aid in development.

[00:10:51] Isaac takes over, explaining how they use Auger metrics and “Nadia labeling” to categorize projects and encourage the adoption of their maturity model. He details a metrics website that provides visual representations of project health and activity and introduces “Duplifier,” a deduplication tool for healthcare data, which uses an open source library called Splink.

[00:15:14] Sean inquires how they actualize their user needs in metrics visualization and about the process that informs the creation of these visual metrics. Isaac addresses front-end design aspects of metric visualization and the importance of making the metrics understandable at a glance. Natalia emphasizing designing for both technical and non-technical stakeholders, ensuring metrics are clear and understandable.

[00:17:44] Aayat discusses her role in strategy development and the creation of a CMS OSPO guide. She emphasizes advocacy withing CMS for open source and plans to conduct workshops and usability testing to determine which metrics are most valuable to stakeholders.

[00:19:23] Remy talks about consulting with the chief information security officer and the chief information officer for internal metric priorities and engaging with an external OSPO metrics working group convened by CHAOSS for broader insights.

[00:20:47] Dawn asks Remy for more details on the differences with government engagement in open source to the corporate environments. Remy describes the early journey of OSPOs at the federal level and contrasts it with his private sector experience.

[00:25:18] Sean asks about what success would look like a year from now for the

OSPO group’s work. Remy acknowledges the limited four-year term for digital service members, emphasizing the urgency to execute and make an impact within the next year. He highlights the transformative impact of Isaac and Natalia’s entrance into the program and the successful shipping of the metrics website, a deduplication tool, and other repositories.

[00:27:50] Isaac envisions success as propagating maturity models and open source standards throughout the government, demonstrating value to stakeholders, and growing the OSPO. Natalia is excited to share their foundational OSPO work and contribute to open data initiatives and mentions speaking this year at the Linux Foundation Open Source Summit and PyCon about their work. Aayat defines success as achieving goals in source code stewardship, understanding the maturity and content of repositories, and supporting the team in communicating the value of open source.

[00:29:53] Remy brings up Nadia Eghbal giving her credit for influential work and mentioning a team book club inspired by her writings.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

**Panelists:

Dawn Foster

Sean Goggins

Guests:

Remy DeCausemaker

Natalia Luzuriaga

Isaac Milarsky

Aayat Ali

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Sean Goggins X/Twitter

Remy DeCausemaker X/Twitter

Remy DeCausemaker LinkedIn

Natalia Luzuriaga LinkedIn

Isaac Milarsky LinkedIn

Aayat Ali LinkedIn

Aayat Ali Website

CMS.gov

Digital Service at CMS (DSACMS)-GitHub

Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services-GitHub

United States Digital Corps

Splink

Repo Scaffolder-GitHub

Metrics Dashboard for CMS Open Source Projects

Repo Metrics Website

github-ospo

The Linux Foundation Open Source Summit-April 16-18, 2024, Seattle, WA

PyCon US-May 15-23, 2024-Pittsburgh, PA

Nadia Asparouhova (aka Nadia Eghbal) Website

Working in Public: The Making and Maintenance of Open Source Software by Nadia Eghbal

Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal

CHAOSScast Podcast-Episode 77: Open Source Metrics at Microsoft

Beat Saber

True Detective-Season 4 (HBO max)

BRAVO Hackathon Series

Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver

Special Guests: Aayat Ali, Isaac Milarsky, Natalia Luzuriaga, and Remy DeCausemaker.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 79

In this episode, host Georg Link is joined by Daniel, Anita, Sophia, and Sean, to discuss their research experiences with CHAOSS metrics and software for open source community health analysis. They dive into various topics, such as collecting and interpreting data from different perspectives, considerations regarding privacy and ethics, and the importance of collaboration between academics and industry professionals. They also highlight some significant projects and studies where CHAOSS metrics and software were employed, and their hopes and concerns for the future direction of research in the field. Furthermore, they discuss the necessity of bridging the gap between academia and industry and touch on the importance of linguistics and cultural context when examining data. Download this episode now!

[00:02:48] Anita discusses the history of open source software research and how CHAOSS provides a common framework for various metrics used by researchers, and Sean emphasizes the standardization of metrics by CHAOSS, which aids in consistency across research.

[00:04:52] Sophia highlights the discrepancies in metric calculations and definitions, seeking standard methodologies, especially for non-academic publications, and Daniel reflects on the differences in research approaches between academia and industry, emphasizing the importance of methodological rigor.

[00:08:25] Sean critiques academic papers for often lacking complete method descriptions, calling for a more rigorous methodological transparency, and Daniel shares about transitioning from academia to industry and the different expectations for communication and results.

[00:10:44] Georg inquires about the impact of CHAOSS research capabilities, and Daniel explains that CHAOSS is shaping research by reflecting the interests and observations of its contributors.

[00:12:16] Sean talks about the increased capacity for research offered by CHAOSS, particularly through tools like Grimoire Lab and Augur, Anita shares her experience using Grimoire Lab for creating interventions and dashboards for open source communities to monitor their projects, and Daniel adds historical context and mentions the importance of tools that allow the replication of analysis in research.

[00:17:10] Georg introduces a study using CHAOSS metrics and software that hasn’t been officially published yet, and Sophia shares some details and explains the study’s premise.

[00:21:00] Anita raises a philosophical point about the potential limitations of metrics, suggesting that they may only reflect what is observable and could lead to gamification if people optimize their behavior based on the metrics.

[00:22:14] Sean speaks about the importance of deep field engagement and the combination of social science with data mining to fully understand the data’s underlying human behavior. Sophia shares her perspective from market research, discussing the design of surveys, the selection bias inherent in data collection, and the importance of understanding the population that is excluded by the research filters used.

[00:25:56] Anita discusses the challenges of academic surveys, and Daniel discusses the bias that may arise from the data available.

[00:28:10] Sophia contemplates the behavioral nuances dictated by different platforms’ processes, and Sean suggests a focus on common software engineering processes across different tools and advocates for social scientific research in open source to better understand the human aspects.

[00:30:32] Georg transitions to discussing survey methodologies and their relation to CHAOSS metrics, and Anita shares her experiences with survey design for the international Apache Software Foundation community and implementation.

[00:33:10] Daniel reflects on the collaborative effort with the ASF community to ensure the survey’s terms and questions were appropriately adapted for an international audience. Sophia suggest the need for a consistent taxonomy is research to ensure cultural sensitivity and understanding.

[00:36:15] Sean touches on the use of large language models in research to identify common language patterns, discussing the ethical considerations of using machine learning to evaluate inclusivity in projects. Anita shares thoughts on presenting survey data responsibly and the need for careful consideration of what information is shared.

[00:38:53] Georg questions the future direction for research in open source using metrics and software. Sean advocates for deeper social scientific engagement, Anita points out the silos between industry and academics, highlighting the need for more interaction and collaboration to synergize efforts and ask more relevant questions, and Sophia stresses the need to focus on gaps in data and to consider work not visible in trace data.

[00:42:59] Daniel brings a pessimistic view, cautioning that the different goals of industry and academia might lead to problems unless they find ways to work together more effectively.

[00:44:11] Georg asks Daniel to clarify the problems he foresees with the current research trajectories. Daniel elaborates on the potential ethical and legal issues that may arise when data is used beyond the limits of fair use, such as in mental health analysis from developer messages, and Sean and Anita add some thoughts as well.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Georg Link

Sean Goggins

Daniel Izquierdo

Anita Sarma

Sophia Vargas

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Sean Goggins X/Twitter

Sophia Vargas X/Twitter

Daniel Izquierdo X/Twitter

Anita Sarma LinkedIn

Mining Software Repositories (MSR) conference 2024

CHAOSSCon EU 2024-Brussels Livestream (YouTube)

Language Variation and Change in Social Networks by Robin Dodsworth and

Richard A. Benton

The Culture Map by Erin Meyer

From the Soil: The Foundations of Chinese Society by Fei Xiaotong

Cosma-GitHub

“Counting Potatoes: the Size of Debian 2.2 “ (UPGRADE-Open Source/Free Software: Towards Maturity

“Gaining Insight into Your Open Source Community with Community Tapestry” (write up for dashboard study for ASF)

Special Guest: Anita Sarma.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

In this collaboration between the CHAOSS Cast and Mechanical Ink podcasts, hosts Dawn Foster and Schalk Neethling are joined by guests Daniel Izquierdo and Sean Goggins to discuss open source community health metrics.

The focus is on providing an overview of two projects under the CHAOSS (Community Health Analytics for Open Source Software) umbrella - GrimoireLab and Augur. These open source tools gather data from diverse sources and analyze it to provide insights into open-source community health.

The episode brings together two fascinating open source projects - GrimoireLab and Augur - that aim to provide insights into the health of open-source software communities. By gathering data from various platforms and channels, and analyzing contributor activity, issues, pull requests, and conversations, these projects shine a light on the inner workings of open-source projects.

You have Sean Goggins, a university researcher who co-created Augur to dissect community interactions at scale. Then you have Daniel Izquierdo whose startup Bitergia built GrimoireLab to offer open source analytics as a service. Both share insightful stories on the evolving landscape of inner source and metrics-driven community management. It's a great listen for anyone involved in running open-source projects or communities.

Beyond project leads, the conversation also touches on why understanding community health is vital today for enterprise adopters to track their dependencies and influence. And as Dawn Foster from CHAOSS chips in, you get an important reminder to not get carried away chasing tools without clarity on what specific questions you want answered from the underlying data.

Overall, a stimulating mix of history and future direction on using metrics to guide open-source communities toward greater sustainability.

Key Topics Discussed

Links Mentioned

Special Guest: Schalk Neethling.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 78

In this episode, host Matt Germonprez is joined by panelists Sayeed Choudhury from Carnegie Mellon University, Clare Dillon from the University of Galway and Lero, Allison Kittinger from the University of Wisconsin-Madison Data Science Institute, and Zach Chandler from Stanford University. They discuss the intricate relationship between open source software and university missions, the role of libraries in supporting OSS, and the collaborative culture fostering community and innovation. The overlapping terrains of open science, open scholarship, and open source in the academic world are explored, along with the challenges and promises of developing universities OSPOs. Join us as we highlight the dynamic growth and potential of OSS in enhancing educational experiences and research output. Press download now to hear more!

[00:00:22] The panelists introduce themselves and tell us what they do.

[00:01:49] Sayeed begins discussing why universities care about open source software, emphasizing its alignment with university missions and its importance as a research output and educational experience.

[00:03:30] Allison continues the role of open source in academia and the importance of creating a supportive culture around it. Zach expresses the importance of open source software in research and teaching, emphasizing the value of sharing and innovation in Stanford’s commitment to open source. Clare speaks about the perspective from Lero and the need to improve engagement with open source software across Irish universities.

[00:08:12] Matt asks about the relationship with universities’ engagement with open source and libraires. Allison discusses the parallels between open source and library functions like scholarly publishing, suggesting the potential need for dedicated open source support within libraries.

[00:10:47] Sayeed highlights the libraries’ neutrality and curation role within universities, suggesting this aligns well with open scholarship and open source software. Clare shares positive interactions with librarians in the open source ecosystem and praises the librarian discipline. Zach commends academic librarians for their alignment with open source ethos, despite his OSPO not being situated within a library.

[00:13:45] Matt asks the panelists to describe a day in their life concerning open source engagement at their universities. Clare talks about working on a framework for open source policy for Irish universities, inspired by Ireland’s National Open Research Forum, involving various stakeholders.

[00:15:14] Allison mentions her day involved planning and hiring for an outreach specialist role to support open source efforts and future team expansion and discusses focusing on outreach efforts for open source within the community and campus, including event planning and needs assessment.

[00:17:03] Zach describes his day like Allison’s, involving consultations on open source licensing and learning from advanced open source projects. Sayeed compares open source work at universities to tending a garden and discusses strategic and operational aspects of his role, emphasizing building social capital.

[00:21:02] Matt asks if the panelists see their work as building community within their universities. Sayeed discusses building community as a convener and center of competency, helping students and faculty navigate open source issues.

[00:22:30] Allison sees her role as building the open source program and community, inspired by the Wisconsin idea that the university’s work should benefit the entire state. Zach focuses on building a community among coding leads from various labs through the Maintainers and Contributors Roundtable, aiming to support and elevate software production. Clare highlights the diversity of people involved in open source at universities and the broader societal impact of open source beyond just software development.

[00:28:04] Matt asks whether the panelists are making positive strides and acknowledges the newness of some OSPOs. He notes potential challenges like getting various university layers to understand their message. Zach feels successful in engaging the research community and uncovering new projects but faces the challenge of integrating these projects into a meaningful framework.

[00:29:44] Allison talks about the excitement and challenge of focusing on key areas without getting overwhelmed by the multitude of directions and projects available. Clare highlights the importance of sharing experiences to avoid duplicating efforts and points out the challenge of translating open source concepts for non-technical audiences. Sayeed discusses the gains at CMU, where the OSPO is beginning to be seen as the go-to for open source. He brings up the challenge of meeting immediate and specific demands from university members like choosing licenses.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelist:

Matt Germonprez

Guests:

Sayeed Choudhury

Clare Dillon

Allison Kittinger

Zach Chandler

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Matt Germonprez X/Twitter

Sayeed Choudhury X/Twitter

Sayeed Choudhury LinkedIn

Clare Dillon X/Twitter

Clare Dillon LinkedIn

Allison Kittinger LinkedIn

Allison Kittinger Website

Zach Chandler LinkedIn

Stanford University Open Source

Lero OSPO-GitHub

Ireland’s National Open Research Forum (NORF)

Of Bicycles, Bakelites, and Bulbs: Toward a Theory of Sociotechnical Change by Wiebe E. Biijker

“Hope is a verb” by Roger Steare

Uplands Cheese-Pleasant Ridge Reserve

Zee Bracket

Special Guests: Allison Kittinger, Clare Dillon, Sayeed Choudhury , and Zach Chandler.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 77

In this episode of CHAOSScast, host Dawn Foster has a compelling discussion with three guests from Microsoft’s Open Source Programs Office: Emma Irwin, James Siri, and Justin Gosses. The conversation includes how Microsoft measures the health of open source communities, their experiences with the CHAOSS Community, and the critical role of open source within the organization. Topics such as use of metrics, tackling security issues within scaling, and the future of metrics within the company were discussed. Also, they talk about the value of open source contributions within the business, the role of internal communities, and how they track and improve processes at Microsoft, emphasizing the importance of open source impact both externally and internally. Download this episode now to hear more!

[00:00:24] Emma, James, and Justin share their backgrounds with us.

[00:01:53] Emma discusses Microsoft’s multi-tier approach to metrics, focusing on maintainers’ value to products and communities, component intelligence, and engineering standards on GitHub.

[00:04:06] James elaborates on his focus on GitHub metrics, the development of policy and tooling for security, and simplifying developers’ workflow.

[00:04:51] Justin categorizes metrics into those for maintainers, for management, and for developers making decisions on dependencies. He talks about challenges in managing the scale of data from 13,000 repositories and the importance of security metrics.

[00:05:37] Emma discusses an experiment with the OpenSSF scorecard for repository security and the effort to motivate improvements in this area. She highlights the challenges of instilling these practices as part of the culture.

[00:07:30] Justin sees opportunities to combine CHAOSS metrics with secure supply chain efforts, aiming to aid developers in making informed decisions about dependencies and warning them of potential risks.

[00:09:11] Dawn asks about the challenges of scaling metrics and managing the vast number of dependencies. Justin responds by describing an experience focused on aiding developers at the start of a project, helping them make data-informed choices about a few key dependencies.

[00:12:51] Emma adds that from the Open Source Programs Office (OSPO) perspective, having a dashboard to direct inquiries is very helpful. James mentions that the dashboard also provides an easy way to surface security guidance.

[00:13:27] The conversation shifts to Dawn asking about the business aspect of open source within Microsoft and how they measure this impact. James responds that open source is integral to Microsoft’s software development approach, aiming to build an internal community and avoid duplicating solutions. He also discusses the importance of Software Bill of Materials (SBOMs) for security and supply chain transparency.

[00:16:00] Emma elaborates on the internal value of external open source contributions, sharing how they help maintainers demonstrate the business impact during reviews.

[00:17:14] Dawn inquiries about the future direction for Microsoft regarding metrics and measurement. Justin touches on exploring the area of funding, aiming to improve conversations about financial contributions to open source projects and achieving better return on investment.

[00:19:10] James mentions that their package selection work for developers has been inspired by CHAOSS metrics, suggesting that these insights be shared in OSPO working group meetings.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

*Panelist: *

Dawn Foster

Guests:

Emma Irwin

Justin Gosses

James Siri

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Emma Irwin LinkedIn

James Siri LinkedIn

James Gosses LinkedIn

Justin Gosses Website

OSS Project Viability: Compliance + Security

Elinor Ostrom: An Intellectual Biography by Vlad Tarko

Special Guests: Emma Irwin, James Siri, and Justin Gosses.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 75

In this episode, host Georg is joined by CHAOSS members, Sean, Nicole, Matt, Elizabeth, and Dawn. Today, they delve into the CHAOSS Project’s goals for 2024 and beyond, highlighting efforts to establish CHAOSS metrics and models as formal international standards. The conversation covers their potential ISO standardization, strategies to grow the user community, the importance of increasing collaboration within the CHAOSS contributor community, and enhancing software contributions, acknowledging the need to value non-code contributions. They also touch on the importance of community engagement and the utility of hosted software solutions to make CHAOSS tools more accessible. We are all excited to see where this new journey takes us, and we would love for you to be a part of this journey. Hit download now to hear more!

[00:02:57] The first goal discussed is to establish CHAOSS metrics and metrics models as formal international standards. Matt explains the intention to turn CHAOSS metrics into ISO standards and the early stages of this process with the Joint Development Foundation.

[00:04:37] Dawn adds that having ISO standards will lend more legitimacy and visibility to their metrics. Georg differentiates between de facto standards and the goal of achieving de jure international standards.

[00:06:42] The second goal is creating outreach processes and plans to promote CHAOSS and grow the user community. Nicole talks about increasing awareness and visibility of the CHAOSS Project, developing key messages, a marketing plan, and a roadmap for engagement.

[00:10:20] Sean emphasizes the importance of deliberate and consistent communication. Elizabeth looks forward to sharing their outreach strategies with other open source communities. Dawn discusses focusing on user communities to distinguish them from contributors and to support user growth.

[00:12:42] The third goal is to increase collaboration within the CHAOSS contributor community, with Elizabeth noting the importance of focusing on both user and contributor communities. She discusses different ways to enhance software contributions within CHAOSS and highlights the challenge of recognizing and appreciating non-code contributions, which will be a focus area for improvement.

[00:14:37] Elizabeth talks about strengthening visibility and explicit partnerships with other communities and organizations, attending more events to evangelize CHAOSS and attract new community members, encouraging blogging among community members to support outreach and contribution growth, with a shoutout to Gary White’s work at Verizon, and mentorship programs within CHAOSS.

[00:16:41] Sean agrees on the interconnected nature of efforts to foster community engagement. Elizabeth notes that non-code contributors like project managers and community managers bring valuable skills to the community, Nicole echoes the importance of non-code contributions, Matt reflects on the complexity of community engagement.

[00:20:00] Georg appreciates the ‘Chaotic of the Week’ feature for its community-building benefits. He then brings up the topic of the fourth goal which is to provide hosted software as a service for consuming CHAOSS metrics, and Sean discusses the goal of providing hosted solutions to facilitate access to CHAOSS software and metrics, mentioning a survey that highlighted installation difficulties, and highlights the OSS Compass Project.

[00:23:50] Dawn supports the idea of SaaS solutions for the CHAOSS software to allow less technical users to trial and decide on the best fit for their needs, Matt highlights the benefit of SaaS solutions in reducing resource constraints for different types of organizations engaging with CHAOSS metrics and models, and Georg discusses the synergy between providing hosted SaaS offerings and creating outreach processes to grow the CHAOSS user community.

[00:25:15] Georg brings up the fifth goal and that is how do we provide guidance to use it and the goal is to use driven data insights to provide recommendations that help people generate new insights for their communities. Dawn shares her thoughts and mentions collaborating with various context working groups to understand their unique needs and to help interpret metric accordingly, and the creation of ‘insight guides.’

[00:32:38] Dawn mentions the formation of a new data science working group with plans to involve the community in writing insight guides. Georg shares insights from a study on project health metrics and their correlation with usage data.

[00:34:42] The sixth goal is discussed to evolve data policies to accommodate emerging technologies like artificial intelligence, recognizing that this an area not yet fully addressed, but is important for the future.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Georg Link

Dawn Foster

Matt Germonprez

Sean Goggins

Nicole Huesman

Elizabeth Barron

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Matt Germonprez

Sean Goggins

Nicole Huesman X/Twitter

Elizabeth Barron X/Twitter

Joint Development Foundation

Metrics for OSS Viability by Gary White-CHAOSS Blog

CHAOSSweekly

Augur NEW Release v0.60.2

Augur Documentation

OSS Compass Project Information-GitHub

“Beyond the Repository” written by Amanda Casari, Julia Ferraioli, and Juniper Lovato

Shoe Dog by Phil Night

Becoming Human: A Theory of Ontogeny by Michael Tomasello

Expedition Cyclops

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 76

In this episode of CHAOSScast, Georg and Dawn have a conversation with guest, Anita Ihuman, about the vital subject of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) metrics within open source communities. Anita, who’s a developer advocate and technical writer, shares her research about how DEI metrics are used and their effectiveness. They discuss the importance of documenting DEI efforts, reflect on the challenges faced by communities in improving inclusivity, and share success stories of events that have leveraged CHAOSS DEI badges to enhance participant experiences. Also, Anita encourages everyone to explore the comprehensive research findings for further insights. Download this episode now to hear more!

[00:02:38] Anita explains her background and interest in the research, and her curiosity about the usage and effectiveness of DEI metrics, especially for underrepresented groups.

[00:04:36] Georg asks about Anita’s aspirations for academic publication, and she shares surprising findings from her research, including lack of codes of conduct in many open source communities and the perception of DEI as a myth in some legacy projects.

[00:09:23] Anita provides examples of projects using DEI metrics, like Apache Traffic Control and the Apache Diversity and Inclusion project.

[00:12:24] Dawn asks which DEI metrics should be prioritized by communities looking to improve. Anita suggests focusing on leadership and governance as starting points for improving diversity and inclusivity, along with mentorship and sponsorship opportunities.

[00:14:52] Georg asks about the use of DIMD files (“ALL in project”) and Anita tells us she didn’t encounter using it since it was introduced after her interviews were completed. However, one participant mentioned it could aid in championing DEI efforts.

[00:15:58] Anita touches upon an article, “An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation,” about challenges in funding applications and considers how CHAOSS metrics could help in such situations, particularly with sponsorship.

[00:17:17] Dawn brings up concerns about using DEI metrics, and Anita discusses the potential flaws in DEI metrics, noting how differences in culture and background could affect the perception of norms and inclusivity, and stresses the importance of considering global perspectives in DEI metrics.

[00:20:02] The discussion shifts to the discussion to DEI metrics for events and Georg notes the increasing adoption of these metrics by event organizers. Anita says the event badges program is popular and shares positive feedback on its impact on participation and overall event experience.

[00:24:20] Anita shares an example of the Open Source Community Africa event’s improved experience after adopting the DEI badge, emphasizing its positive feedback.

[00:25:04] Georg and Anita discuss how the CHAOSS DEI badging helps event organizers implement DEI metrics, acting as a mirror to reflect on inclusivity and diversity.

[00:28:09] Anita shares that she sees the research as enlightening, offering various perspectives on the potential of DEI metrics in the open source community. She encourages everyone to read the article for further insights.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Georg Link

Dawn Foster

Guest:

Anita Ihuman

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Georg Link Website

Dawn Foster X/Twitter

Anita Ihuman GitHub

Anita Ihuman X/Twitter

Unveiling the Impact: DEI Metrics Overcoming Social Barriers in Open Source-Blog Post by Anita Ihuman

An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

CHAOSScast Podcast-Episode 36:CHAOSS DEI Badging Initiative with Rachel Braun and Celia Stamps

CHAOSScast Podcast-Episode 54:CHAOSS DEI Reflection Project

CHAOSScon Europe 2024

Apache Traffic Control

Apache Diversity and Inclusion

Special Guest: Anita ihuman.

Support CHAOSScast

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSSCast!

CHAOSScast – Episode 74

On this episode, our host Georg Link kicks off the discussion, introducing a stellar lineup of panelists including Sean Goggins, Yehui Wang, Mike Nolan, and Cali Dolfi. The topics discussed today are the CHAOSS software, Augur, and GrimoireLab, and the different applications built on top of this software. The panel members discuss the projects they are involved in, such as the Augur project, OSS Compass, and Project Aspen’s 8Knot. Then, we’ll delve into Mystic’s prototype software, aiming to transform how academic contributions are recognized and valued. The discussion dives deep into the role of CHAOSS software in open source and community health, talks about Augur and GrimoireLab projects, ecosystem-level analysis, and data visualization. Press download now to hear more!

[00:00:58] The panelists each introduce themselves.

[00:03:03] Georg explains the origins of CHAOSS software, particularly Augur and Grimoire Lab, and their development. He dives into Grimoire Lab’s focus on data quality, flexibility, and its identity management tool, Sorting Hat.

[00:05:55] Sean details Augur’s inception, its focus on a relational database, and its capabilities in data collection and validation. Georg and Sean recall Augur’s early days, focusing on GitHub archive data, and its evolution into a comprehensive system.

[00:09:28] Yehui discusses OSS Compass, its goals, the integration of metrics models, and the choice of using Grimoire Lab as a backend. He elaborates on OSS Compass’s ease of use and the adoption of new data sources like Gitee.

[00:14:16] Mike inquires about the handling of the vast number of repositories on Gitee, and Yehui explains using a message bus and RabbitMQ for both data handling and parallel processing. Sean clarifies that Gitee is a Git platform similar to GitHub and GitLab, and OSS Compass is the metrics and modeling tool.

[00:15:29] Cali asks about the visualization tool used, and Yehui mentions moving away from Kibana to front-end technologies and libraries like ECharts for creating visualizations, which is an Apache open source project.

[00:16:29] Cali describes 8Knot under Project Aspen built in Plotly Dash and Repel, focusing on mapping open source ecosystems using Augur data. She emphasizes the data science approach to analyzing open source communities and the templated nature of 8Knot for easy visualization creation by data scientists.

[00:20:19] Sean comments on the ease of adding new visualizations with Dash Plotly technology in 8Knot. Cali adds that new visualizations can be easily made an that 8Knot is connected to a maintained Augur database but can also be forked for specific community and company needs.

[00:2342] Georg underlines the importance of ecosystem-level analysis, especially for software supply chain security. Cali shares the goals of analyzing ecosystems to understand relationships between projects, influenced by Red Hat’s interests in investing in interconnected communities.

[00:26:30] The conversation shifts to Mystic, and Mike describes it as a prototype software integrating both GrimoireLab and Augur, with the goal of better integrating these projects through development.

[00:27:30] Mike outlines Mystic’s goal to serve as a front-end to date collection systems, with a specific focus on the academic community’s contributions to technology research. He envisions Mystic as a tool for academics to measure community health and impact of their projects, aiding in tenure and promotion cases.

[00:30:52] Yehui asks about integration of Grimoire Lab and Augur within Mystic and the selection of components for the solution. Mike explains the early stages of integration and the plan to combine data collection services from GrimoireLab into Augur to support undergraduate student development.

[00:32:30] Mike details research on Mystic, including interviews with faculty from various departments to understand their digital collaboration and artifact creation. He aims to develop generalized models of collaboration applicable to multiple data sources, allowing systems like Mystic to support diverse academic disciplines.

Value Adds (Picks) of the week:

Panelists:

Georg Link

Sean Goggins

Michael Nolan

Cali Dolfi

Yehui Wang

Links:

CHAOSS

CHAOSS Project X/Twitter

CHAOSScast Podcast

[email protected]

Ford Foundation

Georg Link Website

Sean Goggins Website

Mike Nolan LinkedIn

Cali Dolfi LinkedIn

Yehui Wang GitHub

Augur

GrimoireLab

Perceval-GitHub

Gitee

RabbitMQ

OSS Compass-GitHub

Kibana

Apache ECharts

8Knot

Building an open source community health analytics platform (Mystic)

The Turing Way Book Dashes

Special Guests: Cali Dolfi, Mike Nolan, and Yehui Wang.

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