Chasing Leviathan

What happens when the simple act of slowing down a metronome reveals the exact limits of our attention, and how might our physical body size secretly dictate the way we experience rhythm and reality? 

Dr. David Gilden, a professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Texas, Austin, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked physical and biological laws shaping human perception. 

Dr. Gilden explores the human response to living in time in his book, The Psychology of Human Temporality. They examine how the world we experience is not rote or matter-of-fact, but actively created by our minds through relationships, and why those cognitive connections inevitably fall apart. 

In this conversation they explore: 

• How our minds generate emergent properties—like transforming isolated claps into rhythm or sequential notes into a melody—to actively construct the world we experience. 
• The phenomenon of "islands," demonstrating how introducing just a couple seconds of silence between beats or gestures destroys our ability to perceive continuity, leaving us lost. 
• Why the traditional psychological view of memory as a storage container of facts falls short, and how a physics-based approach—where the past dynamically influences the future, much like weather systems or financial markets—better explains how we lose our train of thought. 
• The metaphor of "cooling coffee" applied to the mind, illustrating how a sensory input temporarily heats the brain, creating a brief window for connection before the activation energy decays according to natural laws. 
• The biological science of allometry and the radical hypothesis that a person's physical body size and surface area might actually dictate their cognitive decay time. 
• Surprising experimental data revealing that taller people can actually maintain slower rhythmic connections than shorter people, suggesting the mind's shedding of activation mirrors the body's shedding of physical heat. 

This is a conversation for anyone interested in experimental psychology, theoretical physics, and music who wants to understand the hidden biological mechanisms structuring our everyday perception of the passage of time. 

Make sure to check out Dr. Gilden's book: The Psychology of Human Temporality 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/100940878X/

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Dr. David Gilden

0:52 Why Dr. Gilden Wrote The Psychology of Human Temporality

5:27 From Time Perception Research to Body and Biology

7:21 Experimental Psychologist Versus Popular Science Writer

11:54 Three Core Equations Behind Forgetting and Time

12:25 How Minds Create Relationships and Emergent Properties

15:01 Rhythm, Melody, and Emergent Feelings in Music

18:41 Loss of Musical Connection

21:30 When Temporal Separation Turns Patterns into Isolated Events

22:51 Trained Musicians, Rehearsal, and Internal Subdivision

24:58 Bitter Metronomes and the Two Second Limit of Connection

29:48 From Duration of Events to the Problem of Memory

32:23 Redefining Memory as Influence of Past on Present

38:52 Why We Misunderstand Memory through Containment Metaphors

44:56 Cooling Coffee as a Model for Mental Decay

47:35 What Actually Decays When We Lose the Thread

52:47 Exponential Decay and Newtonian Cooling in the Mind

55:20 Human Attention Lifetime 

58:18 From Formal Theory of Decay to Allometry

1:02:20 Body Size, Metabolism, and Kleiber Style Scaling Laws

1:05:38 Can Body Size Shape How We Experience Time

1:09:31 Testing Rhythm and Body Size With Drumming Experiments

1:11:48 Analyzing When People Lose the Beat Across Tempos

1:13:05 Shared Law for Heart Rate, Body Size, and Attention Decay

1:16:47 Surface Area, Heat Loss, and Cognitive Cooling Metaphor

1:18:11 Closing Thoughts

What happens when we blindly accept the monuments in our built world, treating them as permanent fixtures of history rather than invitations to critique the traditions they represent? 

The University of West Georgia's Emerita Professor of Philosophy, Dr. Janet Donohoe, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked dynamism of our built environment and how we interact with public memory. 

Dr. Donohoe explores the complex ties between physical spaces and tradition in her book, Remembering Places: A Phenomenological Study of the Relationship between Memory and Place. They examine how the removal of monuments is not an erasure of history but a rewriting of it, and how understanding our physical world can help us critically engage with the narratives we pass on to future generations. 

In this conversation they explore: 

• How monuments function as a "palimpsest," where tearing them down doesn't remove the place but instead writes over it, leaving underlying traces of memory and tradition. 
• Husserl’s concepts of the "home world" and "alien world," demonstrating how our childhood environments physically write themselves onto our bodies and set our normative baseline for experiencing new places. 
• The striking contrast between the World War II Memorial, which uses its overbearing scale to dictate a narrative of American power, and the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, an open space that invites profound personal reflection and critique. 
• Why rushing to memorialize tragedies, such as the push to immediately erect 9/11 monuments, often solidifies a narrative of victimization without allowing for the necessary time to process and understand the long-term impact. 
• The dual meaning of the word "monument"—to remember and to be mindful—which calls us to actively critique our traditions rather than blindly perpetuating them. 
• How the meaning of a monument is never truly "set in stone," but rather emerges dynamically in the continuous encounter between the viewer and the physical space. 

This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, architecture, and history who wants to understand the profound weight behind our built environment and how we process the evolving, physical traditions of our modern age.

Make sure to check out Dr. Donohoe's book: Remembering Places: A Phenomenological Study of the Relationship between Memory and Place 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0739187163

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Janet Donohoe

0:54 Why Study Memory, Place, and Monuments

2:32 Why We Erect and Remove Monuments as Palimpsests

5:37 Digital Erasure, Physical Traces, and Afterlives Of Data

7:53 Home World, Alien World, and Experiencing Home

12:04 Smell Memory and Bodily Responses to Place

15:10 Modern Writing Erasure and The Palimpsest Metaphor

16:14 Marginalia Layered Reading And Material Texts

17:38 From Individual Body to Collective Memory and Tradition

21:19 Critique Freedom and How Monuments Shape Narrative

23:15 Dynamism Tradition and Renewing the Built World

26:40 Beyond Keeping or Tearing Down Monuments

27:37 Monuments Disrupting Habitual Life and Calling Forth Thought

28:21 Homeless Jesus Statue Orlando and Urban Disruption

29:50 The National Mall Subversive Memorials and Vietnam Wall

33:41 Hero Worship Mourning and the Hidden Costs of War

38:51 Hegel, Gadamer, and how Meanings of Monuments Evolve

42:42 9/11 Memorials, Grief, and Owning Public Memory

45:23 Closing Thoughts

Why is it that an ephemeral arrangement of sounds can move us to tears, while the exact same sequence might sound like chaotic noise to someone from another culture?

Reader in Cognitive Science at Queen Mary University of London and Honorary Professor of Neuroscience at Aarhus University, Dr. Marcus Pearce joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked significance of our brain's probabilistic predictions.

Dr. Pearce explores the computational mysteries of how we process sound in his book, Learning to Listen, Listening to Learn: Music Perception and the Psychology of Enculturation. They examine how our pleasure in music stems from an ingrained psychological drive to predict the future, and how understanding this can help us map out cultural evolution.

In this conversation they explore:

• How our brains act as statistical prediction machines, constantly building internal models to anticipate the next note for an evolutionary survival advantage.
• The surprising realization that the perception of consonance and dissonance is not biologically universal, as shown by differing reactions in cultures like the Chimane of Bolivia.
• Why the pleasure we derive from music relies on an "inverted U-shaped" relationship, where a balance between predictable patterns and complex surprises maximizes our enjoyment.
• The use of interpretable probabilistic AI models, rather than "black box" neural networks, to better understand how a listener's perception matures within a musical tradition.
• How music acts as a safe training ground for humans to vicariously experience complex emotional states and hone cognitive processes without real-world risk.
• The role of cultural evolution in music, explaining why groundbreaking, highly complex composers like Stravinsky were initially rejected by audiences before eventually becoming standard repertoire.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in cognitive science, evolutionary psychology, and musicology who wants to understand the biological weight behind our favorite songs and how we process the beautifully complex structures of human sound.

Make sure to check out Dr. Pearce's book: Learning to Listen, Listening to Learn: Music Perception and the Psychology of Enculturation 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0198848005/

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Marcus Pearce
0:49 Why Music is Universal 
1:38 How Music Perception Theories Miss Global Cultural Diversity
4:19 Cultural Examples of Consonance, Dissonance, and Musical Pleasure
7:28 AI Modeling of Music Perception through Statistical Learning
10:48 Why Use Probabilistic Models Instead of Neural Networks
14:47 The Markov Assumption and Limits of Local Musical Prediction
17:26 Non-Local Musical Structure, Themes, Keys, and Listener Memory
20:57 How Simple Probabilistic Models Explain Surprising Amounts of Listening
22:57 Complexity, Predictability, and the Inverted "U" Of Musical Pleasure
27:32 Learning Progress Theory and Why We Enjoy Moderate Uncertainty
33:34 Cultural Evolution of Music From Stravinsky to Modern Film Editing
38:07 Musical Training, Individual Differences, and Complexity Preferences
41:44 How Music Evokes Emotion, Arousal, and Valence
47:59 Closing Thoughts

What happens when we assume our modern educational institutions and traditions of debate sprung from a vacuum, dismissing the Middle Ages as an uncritical era blinded by faith? 

Kenyon College's Assistant Professor of History, Dr. Alex Novikoff, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked intellectual vibrancy and argumentative spirit of the medieval world. 

Dr. Novikoff explores the history and impact of these practices in his book, The Medieval Culture of Disputation: Pedagogy, Practice and Performance. They examine how the scholastic love of debate wasn't just confined to the ivory tower, but became a performative, public spectacle that deeply shaped medieval culture and laid the foundations for how we learn, argue, and graduate today. 

In this conversation they explore: 

• How the pervasive myth of the uncritical, tradition-bound "Dark Ages" ignores a historical reality where medieval thinkers used rigorous argumentation as tools to penetrate the universe's deepest mysteries. 
• The intellectual genealogy of debate, tracing how the 12th century recovered and repurposed the dialectic and logic of ancient figures like Aristotle.
• The lasting pedagogical impact of charismatic teachers like Anselm of Beck, who utilized a question-and-answer dialogue format to shape a whole generation of students. 
• The surprising realization that the modern university system, from the concept of a faculty guild to the pageantry of caps, gowns, and hooding ceremonies, is a direct inheritance of medieval clerical and scholastic culture. 
• How the structure of scholastic disputation escaped the classroom to influence broader cultural expressions, from the dramatic tension in literature to the resolution of voices in early contrapuntal music.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in intellectual history, pedagogy, and the humanities who wants to understand the ancient roots of our modern academic institutions and the enduring value of engaging with alternative perspectives.

Make sure to check out Dr. Novikoff's book: The Medieval Culture of Disputation: Pedagogy, Practice, and Performance 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0812245385

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Alex Novikoff

0:43 Why Medieval Culture of Disputation Matters

2:57 Debunking Myths About the Middle Ages

7:24 Angels on The Head of a Pin Stereotype

9:20 Dialectic Rhetoric and the Trivium

12:29 Recovering Aristotle and the New Logic

15:55 Faith, Reason, and Long Traditions of Debate

18:48 Contrapuntal Music as Intellectual Debate

20:56 Who Was Anselm of Beck and Canterbury

24:27 Medieval Teachers and Intellectual Lineage

28:03 Question and Answer Traditions Across Cultures

31:27 Birth Of Universities and Academic Guilds

34:53 Why Institutions and Regulation Still Matter

38:08 Moral Panics, Technology, and Historical Perspective

40:38 The Medieval Roots of Graduation

45:10 Medieval Student Life

47:48 Meaning of Bachelor, Master, and Doctorate Degrees

49:32 What Cultural History Reveals About Debate

52:08 Medieval Lessons for AI, Academia, and Our Future

54:09 Closing Thoughts

What happens when our modern visual culture, which demands we constantly observe global atrocities on our phones, actually leads to apathy instead of a meaningful moral response? 

The University of Chicago's Associate Professor of English Language and Literature, Dr. Ben Saltzman, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked significance of a common, deeply human reaction.

Dr. Saltzman explores the history and meaning of this physical act in his book, Turning Away, The Poetics of an Ancient Gesture. They examine how looking away is frequently not a sign of disengagement, but rather an indication of deep emotional involvement, and how understanding this can help us navigate the horrors of the contemporary world.

In this conversation they explore: 

• How the book traces archaic scenes—like the ancient painting of Agamemnon's sacrifice of Iphigenia—by treating them as rocks tossed into a pool, following their cultural and artistic ripples across time. 
• The surprising realization that turning away from a distressing event often signifies a deep engagement with the pain of the world, rather than simple indifference. 
• Why our contemporary habit of scrolling through images of suffering on our phones can create a false sense of moral duty while actually fostering an empty act of looking. 
• The concept of the divided soul, exemplified by Plato's tale of Leontius, which demonstrates how humans experience an inner conflict and oscillation between looking and turning away. 
• How ancient rhetoric and art utilized the covered face to convey states of emotional extremity that existed entirely at the limits of representation. 
• The relationship between covering one's eyes and the acquisition of painful knowledge, illustrated by figures ranging from a newly fallen Adam and Eve to a young girl watching a cruel scientific experiment on a bird.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in literary studies, art history, and the humanities who wants to understand the historical weight behind our everyday instincts and how we process the painful realities of our modern age.

Make sure to check out Dr. Saltzman's book: Turning Away: The Poetics of an Ancient Gesture 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0226847225

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Ben Saltzman

1:09 Adam, Eve, and Turning Away

4:38 Noticing The Gesture of Turning Away in Life and Art

5:54 What Poetics Means For This Ancient Gesture

9:19 Greek Chorus Structure and The Rock and Ripples Metaphor

10:38 Agamemnon, Grief, and The Limits of Representation

16:27 The Moral Center of Turning Away Versus Indifference

23:21 Plato’s Leontius and The Ambivalence of Looking And Not Looking

32:43 Adam And Eve, Knowledge, and Death Across Art History

38:22 Science, Suffering, and The Cost Of Knowledge

44:22 Turning Away in the Digital Age and Our Inherited Iconography

46:57 Closing Thoughts

What happens when history remembers a brilliant young philosopher for his eccentric interests rather than the intellectual foundations he laid for the modern world?

Maynooth University's lecturer and assistant professor, Dr. Amos Edelheit , joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the misunderstood legacy of Giovanni Pico della Mirandola and his book, A Philosopher at the Crossroads: Giovanni Pico della Mirandola's Encounter with Scholastic Philosophy. 

Dr. Edelheit explores Pico's unique position bridging Renaissance humanism and Renaissance scholasticism. They examine how modern scholars have fundamentally distorted Pico's legacy by fixating on his fascination with Jewish Kabbalah, while neglecting his deep scholastic background, fails to understand Pico, as well as the very roots of modernity itself. 

In this conversation they explore:

• How Pico's youthful audacity led him to attempt an open, international debate in Rome with his 900 Theses. 
• The scholarly distortion that hyper-focused on Pico's interest in Jewish mysticism , where he sought to find the origins of Christian mysteries. 
• The fascinating evolution from medieval to Renaissance scholasticism, marking the moment formal philosophy stepped out of the university classroom and into public palaces and squares. 
• The realization that the "Middle Ages" is actually a pejorative concept invented by Renaissance humanists to dismiss the centuries between themselves and antiquity. 
• Pico's groundbreaking defense of philosophy as an independent discipline with intrinsic value and a distinct way of life. 
• Why modern philosophy could not exist without scholasticism, and how thinkers from Descartes onward still had to battle with its established terminology. This is a conversation for anyone interested in intellectual history, Renaissance philosophy, and understanding the foundational forces that actually shaped modern thought.

Make sure to check out Dr. Edelheit's book: A Philosopher at the Crossroads: Giovanni Pico della Mirandola's Encounter with Scholastic Philosophy 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/9004445099

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Dr Amos Edelheit

0:54 Pico’s Life, Library, and Renaissance Curiosity

6:18 Pico, Kabbalah, and Misreadings in Modern Scholarship

9:28 What Renaissance Humanism and Scholasticism Really Mean

19:36 Vernacular Writing, Urban Change, and New Audiences

21:06 Pico’s Oration, Human Dignity, and the 900 Theses Debate

24:29 Why Pico’s Scholastic Background Changes Everything

28:34 Scholastic Language, Modern Philosophy, and Descartes

32:10 From Scholasticism to Neo-Thomism and Modern Theology

33:46 Oration on the Dignity of Man and Its Legacy

40:00 How Pico Shapes Modern Ideas of Dignity

What happens when a society's pursuit of pure rationality and radical individualism actually threatens to dissolve the trust that holds it together? 

Notre Dame University's Paul G. Kimball Professor of Arts and Letters, Dr. Vittorio Hösle, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked genius of Giambattista Vico and the hidden dangers of modern rationalism. 

Dr. Hösle explores the philosophical foundations of the human sciences through his book Vico's New Science of the Intersubjective World. They examine why projecting modern thought onto ancient history fundamentally distorts our understanding of the past, and how recognizing the cyclical nature of civilizations can warn us against our own potential decay. 

In this conversation they explore: 

• How Vico established a rigorous "new science" focused on the common nature of nations, effectively laying the groundwork for modern sociology and the human sciences. 
• The profound realization that archaic humans experienced the world through sensual metaphors and mythic wisdom rather than abstract concepts or romantic love. 
• The crucial discovery of the fallacy of anachronism—and why erudite scholars constantly make the mistake of projecting their own modern mindset onto the past. 
• Why pure rationality and universal rational egoism, termed the "barbarism of reflection," can dissolve societal trust and lead to civilizational collapse. 
• The sobering reality that historical progress is not guaranteed, and that the collapse of high civilization remains a persistent threat even today. 
• Vico's method of conceptually understanding archaic societies by comparing epochs, even when directly empathizing with their foreign mindset is impossible. 

This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, sociology, and history who wants to understand the foundational forces that shape human societies and the historical blind spots of the modern age. 

Make sure to check out Dr. Hösle's book: Vico's New Science of the Intersubjective World 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0268100284 

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop. 

Timestamps 
0:00 - Introducing Dr. Vittorio Hösle 
0:38 - Why Write an Introduction to Vico's New Science? 
6:20 - Gadamer’s Selective Reception of Vico 
8:50 - What is The New Science? (Vico’s Sociological Project) 
16:50 - What Did "Science" Actually Mean in Vico's Time? 
23:25 - Vico vs. Wilhelm Dilthey: Grounding the Human Sciences 
25:50 - Vico's Core Discovery: The Archaic Mindset 
32:50 - The Three Stages of Culture (Gods, Heroes, and Men) 
36:35 - Modern Relevance & The Danger of Civilizational Collapse 
42:25 - The Function of Poetic and Mythic Wisdom 
46:00 - The "Barbarism of Reflection" & Radical Individualism 
47:50 - Vico’s Major Contributions to Modern Historiography 
52:20 - The Fallacy of Anachronism 
55:40 - Closing Thoughts 

What happens when secular culture does a better job of shaping our desires and beliefs than the church?

Trinity Anglican Seminary theology professor Dr. Alex Fogelman joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the decline of discipleship and how modern culture invisibly catechizes us.

Dr. Fogelman explores the historical roots of foundational instruction and his book Making Disciples: Catechesis in History, Theology, and Practice. They examine why pragmatic approaches to church growth fail and how a comprehensive introduction to the faith can deeply root believers against the shifting winds of the modern age.

In this conversation they explore:

• Why the "learning of faith" is essential, even though faith is a divine gift, to help form a new humanity. 
• How the endless scroll of social media, pop culture, and shopping malls act as powerful forms of "cultural catechesis" that shape our vision of the good life. 
• The flaws of imitating cultural forms, like "Christian Pokémon" or "Christian AI," and why simply swapping out the content ignores how the medium shapes the message. 
• How the "TikTok age" exacerbates a sense of ephemeral rootlessness that prevents true human flourishing. 
• The danger of church pragmatism and why sustainable ministry must integrate theology, history, and practice together. 
• Practical strategies for making catechesis the "front porch" of the church, where the faith is passed on person-to-person rather than through an automated screen.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in theology, cultural analysis, and discipleship who wants to understand the hidden liturgies shaping our minds and how to build a more grounded faith.

Make sure to check out Dr. Fogleman's book:  Making Disciples: Catechesis in History, Theology, and Practice 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802883850#

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.

Timestamps

0:00 - Episode Introducing Dr. Alex Fogleman
0:19 - Defining "Catechesis"
4:57 - The Decline of Discipleship and the Influence of J.I. Packer
11:16 - "Cultural Catechesis" vs. Christian Instruction
15:34 - Real-World Examples of Cultural Catechesis
20:44 - Competing Rites of Passage
23:38 - Understanding the "Learning of Faith"
30:57 - Why History, Theology, and Practice Must Go Together
35:51 - Moving Past Pragmatism
41:17 - Building a Catechetical "Front Porch"

What happens when we stop treating therapy as a search for a hidden "inner life" and instead use it to explore our shared, lived world?

Seattle University Senior Adjunct Professor of Philosophy and Psychology and Licensed Therapist Dr. Jerome Veith joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the intersection of hermeneutics and clinical practice.

Dr. Veith explores the themes of his book Gadamer and the Transmission of History and his personal journey from academic theory to doing philosophy every day with his clients. They examine how philosophical concepts like historicity and charitability can transform the way we listen, heal, and understand our place in the world.

In this conversation they explore:

• The profound difference between academic listening and therapeutic listening, and why "charitability" must balance the "hermeneutics of suspicion". 
• How our relationship to the past is malleable, and why viewing our "historicity" as a lived texture can relieve the burden of anxiety. 
• The flaws of the modern hunt for an isolated "authentic self" and why true authenticity requires acknowledging our shared linguistic and cultural worlds. 
• Why rigid therapeutic methods often fall short, and the value of "courting surprise" rather than relying strictly on predefined techniques. 
• The concept of Bildung (formation) and how engaging with history helps us realize we don't have to carry the burden of being human entirely by ourselves.
• How reclaiming our focus and viewing therapy as an "attentional practice" can serve as a profound gift that changes both ourselves and others.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in psychology, philosophy, and the healing arts who wants to understand how deep listening and shared attention can transform our lives.

Make sure to check out Dr. Veith's book: Gadamer and the Transmission of History 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0253015987/

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.

Timestamps
00:00 – Introducing Dr. Jerome Veith
02:14 – Transitioning from Philosophy to Licensed Therapy
04:21 – Academic vs. Therapeutic Listening
09:07 – Balancing Deference with the "Hermeneutics of Suspicion"
10:43 – Navigating Anxiety
13:22 – Preconditions for Dialogue
16:50 – Exploring Biographical and Historical Situatedness
21:50 – Phronesis and the Texture of Lived Experience
27:27 – Hermeneutics in Pedagogy
34:44 – Teaching a Room vs. Healing an Individual
37:51 – Socratic Dialogue, Rigid Methods, and "Courting Surprise"
42:24 – Bildung and Reclaiming Humanism
46:15 – The Trap of Modern "Authenticity"
51:47 – Bridging Hermeneutics and Psychology
54:54 – Closing Thoughts

This episode was recorded before the tragic news of Dr. Habermas' death. We deeply mourn his passing. Dr Habermas was a man who carefully and passionately pursued the truth, and so we hope that today's episode, in that spirit, we'll pay a small tribute to his legacy.

What happens to our democracy when the "written word" is replaced by the "viral image," and reasoned debate is drowned out by the hunt for clicks? 

University of Groningen professor Dr. Peter Verovšek joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the legacy of Jürgen Habermas and how the digital age is transforming the democratic public sphere. 

Dr. Verovšek explores the core arguments of his book, Jürgen Habermas: Public Intellectual and Engaged Critical Theorist. They examine the philosophical evolution of Habermas’ work, from his early critiques of post-war Germany to his recent concerns regarding the "new" structural transformation of the public sphere caused by social media. 

In this conversation they explore:

• The "Desk" of the Intellectual: Why Habermas views the written word as the primary tool for public engagement and why he performs his role as an academic from the "primary place" of his desk. 
• The First Generation vs. Habermas: How Habermas moved Critical Theory away from the "negativism" of Adorno and Horkheimer toward a consistent account where theory and practice flow from one another. 
• The "Life World" vs. Systems: Why we must protect our day-to-day cultural lives—the "life world"—from being "colonized" by the impersonal logics of money and administrative power. 
• Social Media as a "Double-Edged Sword": How the internet turned every citizen into a potential author while simultaneously removing the editors and fact-checkers essential for democratic legitimacy. 
• The Intellectual vs. The Guru: Why true public intellectuals act as "early warning systems" for society rather than "gurus" who monetize their following or tell people how to live. 
• The Crisis of Digital Authorship: Why the shift from reasoned argumentation to "appearance" and "mobilization" makes it increasingly difficult for marginalized voices to be heard in a saturated media environment. 

This is a conversation for anyone interested in political philosophy and media ethics who wants to understand the forces reshaping our democracy and how to reclaim a meaningful public square.

Make sure to check out Dr. Verovšek's book: Jürgen Habermas: Public Intellectual and Engaged Critical Theorist 👉 https://a.co/d/09IMLbLh

Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com 

Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud. 

These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.

Timestamps
0:00 Introduction & Tribute To Jürgen Habermas
0:46 Introducing Peter Verovšek
2:59 Why This Habermas Book Now
4:13 Discovering Habermas Through Continental Philosophy
5:00 Habermas As A Formative Voice In Modern Germany
5:59 Habermas' Public Writings Versus Academic Philosophy
8:52 How Translation And Publishing Shaped Habermas Reception
9:16 Why Habermas Matters In Late 20th Century Philosophy
10:24 Habermas' Childhood Under Nazism And Postwar Germany
13:38 Postwar Philosophy Disillusionment And Political Activism
15:36 Joining The Frankfurt School
17:53 Structural Transformation & The Habilitation Controversy
19:45 The Student Movement 1968
22:00 Leaving Frankfurt & Refocusing on Theory
23:10 Theory Of Communicative Action & a New Critical Theory
23:52 What It Means to be an Engaged Critical Theorist
29:08 German Reunification, European Integration, & Democratic Legitimacy
32:25 Lifeworld Versus System And The Power Of Global Capital
36:42 The Idea Of The Life World In The Phenomenological Tradition
37:03 Early Attempts To Resist Instrumental Reason
39:39 Defining The Public Sphere & Its Role In Democracy
45:24 The New Structural Transformation
47:18 Platforms, Algorithms, & the Crisis of Public Communication
49:00 True Public Intellectuals vs Gurus
53:32 How To Choose Better Voices In Your Own Media Diet