Chat with Greg Fridman

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: I just got a hot tub and it smells like bleach. Can plasma replace it? Same job, different chemistry. Let's talk about where plasma already competes with bleach and where bleach still wins on cost.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, from my new hot tub

00:09 The devil is in the details

00:12 Three points: same job different chemistry, where plasma competes, where bleach wins

00:31 My hot tub uses a slow-release sodium hypochlorite bubble (I call all chlorine products bleach)

00:59 Can plasma do the same job? Sure

01:07 Plasma is expensive (electricity) and high voltage (safety)

01:29 I'm not sitting in a bucket of water with a high voltage system underneath me

01:37 Better safe than sorry

01:42 Chemistry side by side: bleach uses hypochlorite (ClO⁻) to oxidize organics

01:55 Plasma uses reactive oxygen and reactive nitrogen species

02:01 Plasma wins where liquid chemistry loses

02:10 Where they already compete: spinach fogging in food processing

02:23 Fresh spinach climbs a long conveyor, falls into the bag

02:56 Plasma-fog the spinach mid-fall, it lands sterile

03:12 Everybody wins. Still costs electricity + high voltage.

03:20 Where bleach still wins: dirt cheap. 50-gallon drum.

03:47 The catch: workers smell chlorine all day

03:51 I go to food processing facilities and my eyes water immediately

03:58 It's not doing wonders to their lungs either

04:02 So should bleach be replaced? Plasma does the same job with different chemistry.

04:18 What needs to happen: either regulatory pressure, or the market has to accept 1-2 cents more per bag

04:26 Then marketing kicks in ("plasma disinfected")

04:33 Marketing always wins in these situations

If you're in food processing, water treatment, occupational health, or you've ever wondered if your pool/hot tub could be chemical-free, this is the episode.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaScience #Bleach #WaterTreatment #FoodProcessing #FoodSafety #OccupationalHealth #Disinfection

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma work without any heat? Yes. And it's the whole business case for most modern industrial plasma. The trick is timing.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question: most plasma is hot. Can it work without heat?

00:11 Three points: thermal vs non-equilibrium, how we generate it, and the business case

00:29 Callback: there are 4 temperatures in a plasma

00:41 Translational, rotational, vibrational, electronic

00:49 What normal people mean by "heat" is only translational

01:01 Engineers can control which degree of freedom the energy goes into

01:26 We want energy in vibrational and electronic modes: high reactivity, low temperature

01:34 That's how we process materials at low energy input and high output

01:42 Thermal plasma: all 4 temperatures high and in equilibrium

01:52 Non-equilibrium plasma: cold gas, hot electrons, industrial and medical work

02:02 You want to treat a surface without melting the crap out of it

02:14 How we generate non-equilibrium plasma

02:17 Two metal electrodes, high voltage between them

02:28 The trick: turn the voltage on and off before any heating starts

02:45 Accelerate the electrons (light) without giving heavier molecules time to move

02:59 Turn the voltage off before the ions catch up

03:05 That's why researchers develop nanosecond and picosecond pulse systems

03:16 Uniform plasma, no heat, everything off

03:24 The problem: over time, everything relaxes into heat

03:31 You have to be clever with heat dissipation

03:34 Recent read: companies using plasma to cool data center servers

03:47 Not sure how yet. Everything ends in heat. Story for another time.

03:54 The business case for no heat

04:01 Setting aside welding and melting

04:04 Reduce energy use, maximize chemical output

04:11 Surface treatment, air cleaning, industrial exhaust, diesel exhaust

04:23 All benefit from lower energy, lower heat plasmas

04:34 Callback: the frozen strawberry example

04:41 Plasma-treated water microdroplets frozen onto strawberries

04:47 The snow disinfects the fruit as it melts on your counter

04:54 Recap: yes, plasma can work without heat

05:13 Non-equilibrium plasma achieves its chemistry at low heat

05:23 Timing is how we get there. Low heat is where industry is heading.

If you're a plasma engineer, a nanosecond pulser designer, or you saw a data center advertising "plasma cooling" and wondered what they meant, this is the map episode.

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Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma only kill the bad cells and leave the good ones alone? Selective toxicity is one of the holy grails in medicine. Plasma has a door cracked open on this problem, and my story with it goes back 25 years.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question: bad cells only, good cells alone

00:18 Three points: mechanism, research status, and why "selective" is not "simple"

00:45 What I mean by "bad cells": cancer, pathogens

00:55 Example 1: soil. E. coli 0157:H7 on bird poop can get your farm recalled

01:27 Can you kill bad E. coli but leave the soil rhizosphere alone?

01:35 Plasma itself is not selective. It makes ROS/RNS, electric fields, UV, mechanical disruption.

01:59 But E. coli on fresh bird poop is on the surface

02:11 If plasma doesn't penetrate deep, that IS your selectivity mechanism

02:18 Example 2: cancer cells divide fast

02:30 Fast division = DNA replicating = more vulnerable to attack

02:46 This is the same selectivity chemotherapy uses (and why patient hair falls out)

03:09 Fast-dividing hair follicles get hit too

03:20 So the door is cracked open on selectivity

03:44 My personal cancer story starts about 25 years ago

04:11 We took normal human cells vs a melanoma cancer cell line

04:17 Very low dose plasma treatment

04:24 Cancer cells went into apoptosis (programmed cell death, cell suicide)

04:32 Apoptosis is normal biology

04:35 Your esophagus lining sloughs off continuously to rebuild after damage from bread's sharp edges

04:52 It's a normal, inflammation-free process

05:05 Since then: massive progress

05:12 In human clinical trials on every populated continent (Americas, Europe, Asia)

05:22 The holy grail

05:28 We used to have one plasma medicine conference. Now there's a separate cancer-focused workshop.

05:38 Jury is still out. Not through FDA yet. Hopefully optimistic.

06:04 Selective is not simple. Plasma is complex, biology is complex.

06:14 Depends on air, surface, oil content, everything

06:34 My favorite lever: dose vs dose rate

06:40 Hit bad cells fast, put them in apoptosis mode before normal cells wake up

06:54 Recap: door open on selectivity, research progressing, in human trials, we need more young minds

If you're in oncology, ag tech (E. coli on produce is real), or considering a PhD in plasma medicine, this is the map.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaMedicine #Cancer #Oncology #Apoptosis #Chemotherapy #Selectivity #PlasmaScience #Ecoli

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma sterilize a whole room? Yes, we've designed the systems. But there are three stories in this episode that will change how you think about the answer: Obama's MRSA problem, why vodka is the ideal plasma additive, and why doctors don't wear ties anymore.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, scaling from wound to room

00:15 Three parts: how to scale, what plasma can kill, the real bottleneck

00:36 Story 1: Obama's gym had MRSA

00:44 Drexel got a call from the White House

01:11 One day to figure out how to sterilize the presidential gym

01:31 Our design: 12-inch panels with microplasmas (developed at U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign)

01:56 Every wall, floor, ceiling tiled with plasma systems

02:04 Plus plasma on all intake air before it enters the room

02:23 Plus plasma-fogging systems for surfaces

02:36 On paper, we solved it. Every room sterile.

02:52 What can plasma actually kill in a room? Anything and everything.

02:57 Bacteria, fungal spores, bacterial spores, anthrax in an envelope. Any biology.

03:22 Story 2: additives, and the vodka discovery from Russia

03:30 Alcohols in plasma stimulate OH radical production (very strong oxidizers)

03:47 The research came from Russia

03:55 Methanol works, but it's toxic

04:11 Ethanol works, and you drink it

04:16 What concentration? 100% ethanol plus plasma plus oxygen equals flame

04:32 Too low is fine. Too high is flammable. 20% is very good.

04:44 45%+ is flammable

04:46 Vodka (40%) is the ideal additive for plasma OH radical production

04:59 Funny that Russians discovered this

05:07 So if it's so good, why isn't it everywhere?

05:12 It's expensive

05:15 We build houses out of drywall, paper, glue, and wood because dirt cheap

05:38 $1000 per square foot of plasma tile is ridiculous

05:46 Obama's gym as a demo of national capability, sure. Every hospital room, no.

06:05 Story 3: target the real problem

06:16 When I was little, doctors wore ties everywhere including patient visits

06:35 What was discovered around my grad school era

06:49 Doctor leans over sick patient, tie touches patient, doctor never washes tie

07:02 I have a bunch of ties. I never wash them.

07:17 Ties were found to transmit antibiotic-resistant bacteria

07:28 Doctors are now discouraged from wearing ties to see patients

07:37 Not what you'd think. Not always the walls.

07:53 Doctors wash ties less than they wash hands. Doorknobs, floor edges, high-touch areas.

08:08 Aseptic = as clean as possible without being certified sterile

08:18 Where to target treatment

08:23 Get rid of ties. Wash hands. Monitor hand washing.

08:33 Continuously look for the real transmission pathways

08:44 Don't waste huge energy sterilizing ceilings nobody touches

08:53 Recap: yes, we can sterilize the whole room. But focus on transmission pathways, not the whole building.

If you're in infection control, hospital operations, epidemiology, or hospital administration, this is the map.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaScience #InfectionControl #MRSA #HospitalSanitation #HAI #InfectiousDisease #IndoorAirQuality

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma make you young and beautiful again? Yes, superficially. And I'll share why deeper down, I don't want it to.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question: youth and beauty

00:13 I'll give you my opinion at the end

00:23 Not blood plasma. Not platelet-rich plasma. Electric discharge only.

00:43 What plasma actually does: ROS, RNS, mild UV, high electric fields, sometimes a bit of temperature

01:24 Skin tightening, wrinkle reduction, collagen stimulation, faster scar healing

01:44 Angiogenesis: increased blood vessel growth under the skin

01:59 What plasma doesn't do: aging organs, cognitive decline, underlying conditions

02:20 The beauty industry is enormous

02:35 Korea has led the plasma beauty industry. Salons, aestheticians, various discharge types.

02:56 All of it is superficial. None affects the whole organism.

03:15 Emerging: plasma may interact with the immune system

03:17 Aging research context: I once had a mentor who was dean of a college and specialized in aging

03:35 The complexity of cellular aging is enormous, and we understand it poorly

03:59 That means the field is wide open

04:14 Plasma is a strong oxidizer, so it should affect aging processes (positively or negatively, TBD)

04:23 Worth studying because the effect exists

04:34 My opinion: you're given one life. Enjoy the crap out of it.

04:44 4 seasons where I live. Winter is cold and 3 feet of snow, and I love it.

04:57 My dog loves smashing ice with his paws

05:11 Summer gets hot. Linen shirt, ice-cold beer, chill in the shade.

05:25 Aging is part of the process

05:28 Wrinkles come with wisdom

05:36 A story from my first full-time job: I said something stupid and my boss's advisor said "wait until you have some gray hair"

06:01 Now that I have some, I make decisions a little better, think a little deeper

06:13 Aging is not a bad thing

06:18 So: can plasma make you young and beautiful? Superficially yes. Deep down, only wisdom.

If you're in cosmetic dermatology, aesthetics, longevity research, or you've ever thought about it while looking in a mirror, this one's for you.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaMedicine #Aging #Longevity #Beauty #Aesthetics #Dermatology #Wisdom #PlasmaScience

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma make plants grow faster? Yes. I don't believe in magic. But I stumbled into plasma agriculture through a story that looked a lot like magic. Three parts: delivery routes, the biology, and why farmers care.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, and my admission: I don't believe in magic

00:14 But I stumbled on plasma agriculture through magic

00:23 3 things: delivery routes, biology, farmer economics

00:41 The magic water story

00:44 15+ years ago in the lab, working on medical applications of plasma-treated liquids

01:14 Our secretary, not a scientist, called it "magic water" because it worked on cancer cells

01:36 A plant on my desk wilted and I threw it in the trash

01:43 A week later, she pulled it out of the trash and told my students to treat it with the magic water

01:58 I walked into the student area a week after that. Plant was alive.

02:14 Instead of laughing it off, I asked "wait a sec, what's happening?"

02:22 A couple of undergrads got assigned to investigate the mechanism

02:39 What we found: plasma acts on the whole plant lifecycle

02:47 Seed treatment cracks the outer shell so water can get in faster

02:58 Plasma-treated water: ROS stimulate plant development

03:08 Reactive nitrogen species are literal food for the plant

03:10 Bottom line: you need less N in your NPK fertilizer if you're using plasma-treated water

03:26 The magic wasn't magic. But that's how it started for me.

03:35 Biologically, there's also stuff around the plant

03:41 Plasma disinfects the environment, prevents mold growth

03:50 In hydroponic systems, plasma kills algae in the water

04:01 Undergrad-founded company: TATOH (Tabletop Hydroponics)

04:11 They graduated, the company went nowhere, but the system worked

04:15 A $3 Chinese power supply kept a hydroponic plant algae-free for 6+ months

04:40 (The control turned dark green with algae)

04:46 Recap: seed germination, plant development, plant protection, all separate plasma modes

04:56 Why farmers care

05:00 Higher germination rate → fewer seeds to buy

05:09 My grass lawn joke: I should plasma-treat next season's seeds

05:23 Faster growth rate is worth a lot to certain farmers

05:36 Cannabis growers, taxed by square foot and plant count (in some states), care most

05:46 Standard: 2 harvests per year per plant

06:02 With plasma-treated water in early development and throughout: 3 harvests

06:10 30% profit gain from a little bit of electricity applied to your water

06:20 Recap: yes, plasma makes plants grow faster

06:35 Whole lifecycle stimulated by plasma-activated liquids

06:40 Farmers are the beneficiaries

If you're in ag tech, controlled-environment agriculture, cannabis operations, or hydroponics, this is the map.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaScience #Agriculture #AgTech #Hydroponics #Cannabis #Farming #PlasmaAgriculture #ControlledEnvironmentAgriculture

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma heal wounds faster than pharma? Yes, for scrapes and cuts (not gunshot wounds, not broken hearts). Three parts: the dual mechanism, where it's already approved, and why it's not mainstream in the US yet.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, and what kind of wound we mean

00:29 A mother of a 5-year-old's definition: scrapes, cuts, capillary bleeding

00:55 3 things to cover today

01:17 A funny story: how my career in plasma medicine started

01:32 A lunch-and-learn at a medical school by Dr. Satava, DARPA program director for directed energy medicine

01:57 His talk: medicine of 2030 (delivered in the very early 2000s)

02:11 The cartoon he showed at the end, made by EA Sports for DARPA

02:20 Military of the future: self-guiding bullets, night vision, seeing through walls

02:32 Then: soldier gets shot in the leg, robotic helicopter arrives, purple light closes the wound

02:47 Our very early funding was to figure out if that cartoon was true

03:00 The mechanism, in a real scrape

03:04 Capillary bleeding, tissue damage, bacterial contamination

03:16 Plasma UV and ROS/RNS kill bacteria immediately

03:27 Charges, electric fields, and ROS trigger both intrinsic and extrinsic coagulation cascades

03:43 Capillary bleeding (not gashing) coagulates very effectively

03:54 Cells respond to redox balance changes, and oxidative stress from plasma triggers tissue regeneration

04:20 Result: a pocket-sized battery-powered device you run over a scrape

04:33 Disinfected. Coagulated. Closes faster. No consumables.

04:49 Where it's approved: Europe, especially Korea and Germany. Specific clinical indications first.

05:22 The right way to commercialize a treatment: clinical studies before consumer

05:24 Easier to run those studies in countries with less stringent regulation than the US

05:36 Why not mainstream in the US

05:44 During COVID, we developed a plasma system called Oxystrike for N95 respirator disinfection

05:57 FDA feedback loop: 6 rounds of deficiencies, each round more stringent

06:24 One side of me is very supportive of FDA's rigor

06:36 After all that, FDA called us on the phone

07:00 "Your device is awesome, but we're no longer authorizing mask disinfection systems because COVID mask shortages are over"

07:22 Whoops.

07:32 Several companies are working on wound-healing plasma. Slow process. Give us a few years.

07:41 Recap: dual mechanism, pocket-sized, no consumables, approved abroad, US catching up

If you're in dermatology, wound care, emergency medicine, defense medical devices, or FDA regulatory, this is the map episode.

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Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: if plasma is so good at killing bacteria, why do we still have foodborne illnesses from packaged food? Three things: how plasma actually kills microbes, where it's already deployed (including NASA and Campbell's), and why it hasn't taken over the food packaging industry.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, and the paradox

00:24 3 things to cover: mechanism, deployment, and why it's not everywhere

00:38 What plasma is: highly ionized gas full of reactive species

00:58 ROS and RNS: peroxides, peroxynitrite, ozone, electronically excited oxygen

01:14 Electrons and charged species (catalytic)

01:33 Broad-spectrum UV down into vacuum UV (VUV)

01:43 VUV doesn't travel in air, but it's generated right next to the bacteria

02:02 High electric fields at the tip of every "micro lightning"

02:31 So how plasma actually kills microbes: ROS/RNS poison + high electric fields rupture cell membranes + UV disrupts DNA

02:47 The NASA story

02:52 Spacecraft disinfection work in two directions

03:00 "Sterilization" doesn't have a clean definition (6-log for most, 9-log for NASA)

03:11 NASA wants fewer than a couple of organisms per square meter of spacecraft material

03:26 The high-aspect-ratio (deep hole) problem: reactive species can penetrate

03:55 All mechanisms play a role in that geometry

04:24 In the US, microwave-plasma discharges are already deployed

04:29 A Campbell's Soup factory tour in New Jersey

04:37 A giant microwave system sterilizes pre-made packaged food

04:49 If Campbell's is already doing it, why hasn't this taken over?

05:05 Reason 1: plasma isn't cheap. Cost per tomato has to be way under a penny.

05:30 The biggest competing technology in food disinfection

05:36 The answer: NOTHING. Wash your own produce.

05:49 Farmer's market model: farmers hand off produce, you clean at home

06:11 A note: wash your produce, especially from farmer's markets

06:20 Grocery stores are generally safer than farmer's markets on this

06:33 Reason 2: high voltage. Occupational safety concerns.

06:41 Big plasma for big produce (like a potato) means 100+ kV supplies

06:59 Above 100 kV, electrons hitting surfaces produce Bremsstrahlung radiation

07:19 Which means hard X-rays. Small amounts, but real.

07:26 Extra worker protection is now required. Cost goes up again.

07:55 Package geometry adds constraints: plasma-activated water fog works for some products, not for potato chips (soggy)

08:16 Recap: yes, plasma kills. Deployed in some applications. Regulatory and health/safety keep it from being everywhere.

If you're in food safety, packaging engineering, regulatory affairs, or NASA-adjacent sterilization, this is the map episode.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaScience #FoodSafety #FoodPackaging #Sterilization #NASA #Bremsstrahlung #IndustrialEngineering #PlasmaChemistry

Next in the "Can Plasma?" series: can plasma make hydrogen without electrolysis? Yes. From water, methane, ammonia, biological waste, diesel fuel, or a mix of soil and cow manure. Plasma doesn't care about the source. On-site generation is where this gets interesting.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The question, plus 3 things to cover

00:18 Point 1: plasma cracks water, methane, ammonia, and other hydrogen-containing feedstocks directly

00:29 Point 2: energy efficiency determines whether it's industrially viable

00:39 Point 3: plasma reactors can be small and cheap, which reshapes logistics

00:57 How it works: feedstock through plasma dissociates hydrogen-containing molecules

01:17 Farm example: convert hydrocarbon waste into hydrogen, feed a fuel cell, generate electricity

01:41 The silent tank story

01:51 Reconnaissance mission at night, tank needs to be quiet

02:02 Radar and coffee makers need electricity (soldiers need coffee to stay awake)

02:19 Old approach: idle a 12-cylinder diesel engine just to power onboard electronics

02:25 12-cylinder diesel = a lot of heat and a lot of noise

02:30 Our project: crack tank diesel through plasma, produce hydrogen, feed a Ceramatec fuel cell

02:55 Tank runs cold and much quieter

03:10 Plasma still makes some noise, but nothing like an idling 12-cylinder diesel

03:21 Plasma doesn't care how dirty the source is

03:33 Take soil mixed with cow manure, make hydrogen

03:38 Compared to electrolysis

03:44 Nuclear plants run electrolyzers at night with excess electricity

04:04 Problem: storing a shit ton of explosive gas next to a nuclear reactor

04:26 Plus transport, storage, and safety costs

04:37 Plasma alternative: much smaller reactor, place it directly where the hydrogen is needed

04:53 Hospital scenario: biological waste (garments, polymers, blood) → plasma → hydrogen → fuel cell → hospital electricity

05:14 No more hazmat waste bill. You've turned a cost into an asset.

05:29 Farm scenario (this is my favorite)

05:33 Prior US administration heavily invested in solar

05:42 Farmers built solar, generate way more than they need, sell it back

06:04 Long transmission distances from farm to city → electricity companies charge huge delivery fees

06:21 Farmers end up selling excess power for pennies on the dollar

06:26 Alternative: use that excess solar to power plasma, produce hydrogen

06:33 Burn it for heat, convert it back to electricity, or fuel farm equipment

06:41 I'm not a big believer in consumer hydrogen vehicles (logistics and highway explosion risk)

07:04 But for a single location (farm, hospital), hydrogen is fantastic

07:10 Off-grid farm with plasma converting trash + solar into hydrogen fuels all equipment

07:39 Recap: yes plasma can crack most hydrogen-containing precursors, efficiency is application-specific, on-site generation is the future

If you're in energy, agriculture, hospital operations, defense, or hydrogen logistics, this is the map episode.

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#CanPlasma #PlasmaScience #Hydrogen #FuelCell #GreenHydrogen #Agriculture #Defense #EnergyStorage #OffGrid #Sustainability

Someone recently left a comment on one of my videos: "buddy, that's just what you believe." Yes, sir. Here's exactly how I got there, in three principles, plus two stories about being wrong.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 The comment: "that's just what you believe"

00:12 Today: my belief system, and how I establish it

00:21 The three principles

00:25 1. Base beliefs on evidence and replication, not authority

00:34 2. Hold conclusions provisionally, always open to new evidence

00:52 3. Distinguish consensus from certainty. Distinguish data from interpretation.

01:10 Principle 1: the paver patio story

01:24 Our contractor put black weed-prevention fabric under the gravel, which is correct

01:49 They also extended it under the new sod, which the manufacturer says not to do

02:04 First check: Google, verify the product, verify the spec

02:24 Contractor was authoritative and dismissive: "I've been doing it like this for years"

03:14 Called two other lawn-care companies, both said no, grass will suffocate

03:41 Authority alone isn't enough. Evidence and replication is.

03:57 Principle 2: hold conclusions provisionally

04:03 The Apple story (embarrassing but instructive)

04:45 I was teaching a class 10+ years ago

04:51 Told my students Apple was actually run by a dozen people, everything else outsourced

05:03 (I have no idea where I picked that up. It sounded true to me.)

05:22 A student raised her hand and said "I work at an Apple store. There are thousands of us. My paycheck says Apple Inc."

05:39 I apologized on the spot

05:51 I said I'd verify and change my conclusion by next class if needed

06:09 Went home, checked, yeah I was massively wrong

06:18 Next class: apologized again, changed my conclusion, held the new one provisionally

06:39 (I'll change it again if Elon Musk turns out to run Apple)

06:44 Principle 3: consensus vs certainty, data vs interpretation

06:53 Consensus is interpretation of data, not data itself

07:03 "Best steakhouse in town" is opinion. To buy that steakhouse, I need the actual numbers.

07:26 Consensus can update. Data updates it.

07:49 To the commenter: yes, that's what I believe. This is how I got there.

08:03 What's your belief system? Comment below.

If you're a scientist, engineer, founder, or anyone who's had to update a belief in public, this one's for you.

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#Science #Epistemology #CriticalThinking #Research #DecisionMaking #Founders #Beliefs