ChinaEconTalk

Joseph Torigian’s The Party’s Interest Comes First: The Life of Xi Zhongxun, Father of Xi Jinping is a monumental scholarly achievement — easily a contender for one of the best China books of the decade. Joseph’s goal, in his own words, was to “shine as much light into the darkness of the past as possible” to understand the nature of authoritarian politics, and he succeeds beyond my wildest expectations.

This biography gives me a feel for Chinese politics that I honestly thought I’d never have. It does an incredible job of digging deep to shed light on some of the most consequential moments in CCP history, as well as conveying what it was like to live as a senior official under Mao and Deng. Reading it was a powerful experience at both an intellectual and human level.

We get memorable vignettes, like 15-year-old Xi Zhongxun attempting to assassinate a teacher, or General Peng Dehuai using his shoe to silence Xi Zhongxun’s snoring in their shared bunk.

In this interview, we discuss:

What we can learn about authoritarianism, the CCP, and China’s future from studying Xi’s father,

Torigian’s methodology for uncovering hidden Party history,

How the Party became an existential source of meaning, and how it weaponized suffering to paradoxically deepen political loyalty,

The arc of Xi Zhongxun’s life — from a young revolutionary to key advocate of reform — and his role during Tiananmen,

The interplay of family, love, and career under the all-encompassing shadow of the Party,

The role of “Surrogate fathers” and patronage in navigating political ascent,

How literature shaped China’s early revolutionaries, and even impacted the Party as we know it today.

Co-hosting today is Jon Sine, former ChinaTalk intern.

Outro music: The Temptations - Papa Was A Rolling Stone (YouTube Link)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nathan Lambert (https://www.interconnects.ai/), Jasmine Sun (https://jasmi.news/) and I kick off a new series 'Overfit' to talk how AI is shaping the future of media, why Nathan just needs $100m to take on Deepseek, and how to make money in this creator economy.

Outtro music: Todd Terje, Preben Goes to Acapulco https://open.spotify.com/track/70jWHwvymR4x1PUXXrUD1S

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jake Newby, author of the China music substack Concrete Avalanche, presents his official playlist of China’s best new music. It includes ADHD-inspired hip hop, experimental ambient music from rural China, and Shanghai cold wave, finishing off with a “mind-blowing” hyperpop track.

Tracklist:

00:00 ‘Rhyme’ – Rubey Hu

01:02 ‘The Last of the Mohicans’ – SMZB 生命之饼

04:46 ‘秋茄子之味’ – 红发少年杀人事件

09:04 ‘The Wanderer of Renfengli 仁丰里的闲逛者‘ – DaYe 大叶

12:08 ‘back to the pond 1’ – Jian Cui

15:57 ‘Chapter II’ (excerpt) – Chen Mulian et al for xuán yīn

21:13 ‘月光爱人 De Luna Amour’ – 黑木 Heimu

27:27 ‘Ⱪorⱪetteng ⱪobeze / The Kobyz of Korkut 霍尔赫特的库布孜‘ (excerpt) – Mamer 马木尔

35:38 ‘སྒྲོལ་མའི་བསྟོད་པ་། Praise to Tara 度母赞’ – Kalzang Samdrub

37:08 ‘我不知不觉不伦不类’ – 小老虎 J-Fever

39:56 ‘1911 4th Mov. (live) 一九一一 第四回’ (excerpt) – Zhaoze 沼泽

46:55 ‘本该走神的(Should've Been Lost)‘ – 张醒婵 Nono

49:28 ‘失乐园’ – DJ小女孩 DJ Gurl

Some of these tracks are available on YouTube! We've aggregated those links on the ChinaTalk Substack.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How does Russia prevent uprisings, and what can other authoritarians learn from Moscow’s methods of coup control?

For the second anniversary of the Wagner uprising, ChinaTalk interviewed London-based historian Kamil Galeev, who was also a classmate of Jordan’s at Peking University.

We discuss…

Why the Wagner Group rebelled in 2023, and why the coup attempt ultimately failed,

How Wagner shifted the Kremlin’s assessment of internal political challengers,

Similarities between post-Soviet doomerism and the American right,

Historical examples of foreign policy inflienced by a victimhood mentality,

Barriers to Chinese hegemony.

Outro Music: Султан Лагучев - Любовь беда (YouTube Link)

Today’s post is brought to you by 80,000 Hours, a nonprofit that helps people find fulfilling careers that do good. 80,000 Hours — named for the average length of a career — has been doing in-depth research on AI issues for over a decade, producing reports on how the US and China can manage existential risk, scenarios for potential AI catastrophe, and examining the concrete steps you can take to help ensure AI development goes well.

Their research suggests that working to reduce risks from advanced AI could be one of the most impactful ways to make a positive difference in the world.

They provide free resources to help you contribute, including:

Detailed career reviews for paths like AI safety technical research, AI governance, information security, and AI hardware,

A job board with hundreds of high-impact opportunities,

A podcast featuring deep conversations with experts like Carl Shulman, Ajeya Cotra, and Tom Davidson,

Free, one-on-one career advising to help you find your best fit.

To learn more and access their research-backed career guides, visit 80000hours.org/ChinaTalk.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is America cooked? We check in on what clarity the past three months have given us on the long term dynamic between the US and China.

Guests include:

Outtro music: Emitt Rhodes, Textile Factory, 1970 https://open.spotify.com/track/1JO2jo0Cyg75mmCFlSW2bB?si=1706c809e80b4bd4

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Also, somehow, the Third Temple, twink human sacrifice for the AI labs, and the SemiAnalysis Desi Waifu 3000.

Outtro Music (sounded like a let's get dylan a girlfriend prayer to me?) Finding Her, Kushagra, Bharath, Saaheal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZtSnQBsBW0

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Patrick McGee is the author of Apple in China: The Capture of the World’s Greatest Company. Our discussion led us through a detailed history of Apple’s relationship with China, where iPhone manufacturing became a project of nation-building.

Cohosting today is Kyle Chan of the High Capacity Substack.

Today, our conversation covers:

Read ChinaTalk's article China's AR glasses market here.

Outro music: Apple Blossom — The White Stripes (YouTube Link)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eva Dou is the author of The House of Huawei, an excellent book covering the personal, economic, and geopolitical arc of Huawei, China’s most important company.

We discuss…

The life of Huawei’s founder, Ren Zhengfei, who rose from Cultural Revolution disgrace to become one of China’s richest businessmen,

How Ren built Huawei, and what makes their corporate culture unique,

Huawei’s strategic entry into developing and high-risk markets like Libya, Iraq, and Iran, and whether the controversial deal with the UK is a threat to national security,

How Huawei outcompeted Chinese state-owned telecom companies and eventually achieved national champion status,

How Ren’s personal interest in foreign art, music, and architecture advances Huawei’s market share.

Co-hosting today is Kyle Chan, a postdoc at Princeton and author of the High Capacity Substack.

Outro music: Back Fire - Annabel Yao (YouTube Link)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Renaissance Philanthropy — in my opinion, the most exciting S&T philanthropic venture in the US — is getting a one-year check-in. Kumar Garg first appeared on the show right before I went on paternity leave, and now we’re back for round two. Before founding Renaissance Philanthropy, Kumar worked in the Obama Office of Science and Technology Policy and spent time at Schmidt Futures.

We discuss…

How Renaissance ⁠catalyzed⁠ over $200 million in philanthropic funding in its first year,

The goals of the organization and how it has responded to Trump’s S&T funding cuts,

What sets Renaissance apart from traditional philanthropic organizations, and lessons for China-focused research foundations,

AI applications in education, from tutoring to dyslexia screening,

Donor psychology, “portfolio regret,” and how to build trust within a philanthropic network.

Thanks to ElevenLabs for sponsoring this episode. Check out the ElevenReader text-to-speech app here.

Outro music: Mercy, Mercy, Mercy - Cannonball Adderley (YouTube Link)

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Josh Wolfe of Lux Capital joins ChinaTalk to talk:

Read the social history of the machine gun!

Outtro Music: Youba by The Sway Machinery and Khaira Arby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYNUm4UfoAs

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices