Church and Main

By Dennis SandersSociety & Culture Religion & Spirituality Christianity

Church and Main episodes

December 30, 2023 The Most Memorable Episodes of 2023 | Episode 166
In this episode, I look back at the 10 most memorable episodes of 2023. This isn’t a countdown to number one, but a look back at some of the most meaningful episodes of the year. I will also look forward to what I hope to be doing in 2024.

At the end of the year, I want to say thanks to everyone who has downloaded an episode, shared an episode with others or donated financially. You helped an odd pastor in Minnesota live out a desire to start this here podcast. Thank you for your support!

The 10 Most Memorable Episodes of 2023:

Episode 132: Telling the Truth on Church Decline with Ben Crosby

Episode 136: A Church Grows Again in Odessa with Dawn Darwin Weaks

Episode 158: A Tale of Congregational Hope and Renewal with Grayhame Bowcott

Episode 153: Lay-Led Church Planting with Laura Cottington

Episode 164: Mainline Church Growth with Paul Moore

Episode 140: Beyond Colorblindness and Antiracism with George Yancey

Episode 143: Giving Up the Stigma of Mental Illness with Seth Perry

Episode 142: Church and the Crisis of Decline with Andrew Root

Episode 157: Rage and Hope After the Hamas Massacre with Rabbi Brad Hirschfield

Episode 159: Mainline Churches and Israel-Palestine with Todd Stavrakos
Lectionary Q Podcast
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38 min
December 20, 2023 The Theology of Black Lives Matter with Drew McIntyre | Episode 165
Note: This podcast originally aired on December 8, 2021.
Black Lives Matter. Those three words have launched a million arguments over the last 8 years or so. What began as a hashtag in the wake of the killing of young black men by the police has become a phrase that has gone global and all the while it has been controversial. Some think it is exclusive and even racist because they think it only focuses on black people. Others like the phrase and take it on without asking questions.
Methodist Pastor Drew McIntrye wanted to look at black lives matter from a theological standpoint. What does it mean for followers of Jesus to say this phrase? Can followers of Jesus say this phrase? The answer is an emphatic yes. We will talk about what blacks live matters means theologically and what it means for African Americans to hear the church say black lives matter.

Show Notes:
The Scandal of Particularity, Black Lives, and Jesus by Drew McIntyre
Drew’s Website
The God & Whiskey Podcast- Drew and Evan Rohrs-Dodge
Drew on Twitter
Lectionary Q Podcast
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1 hr 6 min
December 14, 2023 The Most Vital Strategy for Mainline Church Growth with Paul Moore | Episode 164
Mainline Protestant congregations have faced decline over several decades. Can these churches grow again and also hold fast to their commitment to social justice?
Paul Moore a pastor of a Presbyterian Church (USA) Congregation in the suburban Twin Cities, MN believes the answer is yes and is practicing what he believes. In this episode, we talk about how Presbyterian and other mainline Protestant denominations can have thriving churches again if they learn to "grow young."
Show notes:
Preaching at my home church with sadness by Paul Moore
Growing Young in the PC(USA) by Paul Moore
Chain of Lakes Presbyterian Church website
Episode 83: Mainline Church Planting with Paul Moore
Lectionary Q Podcast
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45 min
December 07, 2023 The Tiny Home Revolution: How a Church Made a Big Impact with Peter Christ | Episode 163
One solution to solving the affordable housing and homelessness crisis is for churches to have an active role in providing space for housing. Another church that I am aware of in Minneapolis sold their property to another housing nonprofit that will build affordable housing and also create a worship space for the congregation.

I talked to a pastor at a Lutheran congregation in Roseville, Minnesota a Twin Cities suburb that was able to provide homes for people experiencing homelessness using tiny homes. Peter Christ the pastor of Prince of Peace Lutheran Church shares the story that led the congregation to create a small community that is giving people a place to call home.
Show Notes:
Prince of Peace Lutheran Church website
Settled website (nonprofit building tiny homes)
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58 min
December 03, 2023 The Death and Resurrection of Peace Lutheran Church with Dave Greenlund (REWIND) | Episode 162
This episode originally aired on December 2, 2021.
Peace Lutheran Church is a congregation of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America located in the small town of Lauderdale which sits between Minneapolis and St. Paul. When Pastor Dave Greenlund was asked to pastor the congregation, the Synod office thought he might be a hospice pastor who would let the church die a good death. That was 2004. Peace is still alive and kicking having grown a little as well. In this episode, I chat with Rev. Greenlund about the story of Peace Lutheran and how it learned to connect with the community around it.
Show Notes:
Peace Lutheran Website
Profile of Peace Lutheran in Living Lutheran
Radix Magazine Podcast Interview
Episode 158: A Tale of Congregational Hope and Renewal with Grayhame Bowcott
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1 hr 23 min
November 29, 2023 A Pastor’s Side Hustle with Ruth Hetland | Episode 161
Over the last few years, I started to hear a new phrase one that might be new to you as well: side hustle. A side hustle is a way to make money in addition to your full-time or part-time job. It’s also a way to explore a new career. Side hustles can be a way for folk in lower paying jobs, like, I dunno being a pastor in a congregation, to earn some money and also gain some new skills. Today we talk to Ruth Hetland, a Lutheran pastor living in Minnesota who started a side hustle to support women in ministry.
Show notes:
One Pastor's Side Hustle: Subscription Boxes for Women in Ministry article from Church Anew
ConseCrate website
Creative and Created Podcast
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31 min
November 23, 2023 The Legacy of J. Irwin Miller with Geoffrey Kabaservice (REWIND) | Episode 160
(Originally Broadcast in December 2021.)
I’ve known Geoffrey Kabaservice since we were both writers for David Frum’s news site, Frum Forum. Today Geoffrey is the Vice President of Political Studies at the Niskanen Center and host of the Vital Center Podcast. He’s an author, especially in for our purposes of the book Rule and Ruin: The Downfall of Moderation and the Destruction of the Republican Party, from Eisenhower to the Tea Party. I brought him on the podcast today to talk about the intersection of two important streams of 20th century American culture, Moderate Republicanism and Mainline Protestantism. Both of these movements drove much of American society and now they are both weakened. We will look at what has been lost as both institutions decline. We’ll also focus on one person where these two streams meet: J. Irwin Miller, the CEO of Cummins Engine, a Rockefeller Republican, and a member of a mainline denomination, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He was also a corporate titan who invested in his hometown of Columbus, Indiana, and allowed it to prosper when other Rust Belt towns withered. If you are someone who is interested in American political and social history, you will love this episode.
Show Notes:

Geoffrey Kabaservice’s Niskanen Center profile

The Rust Belt Didn’t Have to Happen by Aaron Renn (on J. Irwin Miller)

The Vital Center Podcast
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1 hr 2 min
November 15, 2023 Mainline Churches and Israel-Palestine with Todd Stavrakos | Episode 159
In this episode, guest Reverend Todd Stavrakos discusses the stance of mainline churches on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They talk about the lack of nuance in these stances and their impact on relations with the Jewish community. Stavrakos criticizes the one-sided focus on Israel's actions, the failure to condemn terrorist organizations, the issue of antisemitism within the church, and the importance of recognizing it.
Show Notes:
Presbyterians for Middle East Peace
Pathways 4 Peace
Presbyterian Church vote declaring Israel an apartheid state upsets Jewish groups
Episode 157: Rage and Hope After the Hamas Massacre with Rabbi Brad Hirschfield
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54 min
November 07, 2023 Episode 158: A Tale of Congregational Hope and Renewal with Grayhame Bowcott
Thousands of churches closed their doors and ceased active ministry every year bringing to an end decades of active ministry. But can a church come back from the dead and start again? In this episode, we talk to Anglican priest Grayhame Bowcott about the rebirth of St. Annes church in rural Ontario, Canada that went from “six very miserable Anglicans who had experienced the scarcity model of the church into a congregation of 55 who were there on a regularity.”
Show notes:
Grayhame's bio webpage
Article on St. Annes in Anglican Journal
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42 min
October 25, 2023 Hope Amid Terrorism with Rabbi Brad Hirschfield | Episode 157
As the sun rose on October 7th, the tranquility of southern Israel was shattered by an act of terror, by the terrorist group Hamas, leaving an indelible mark on the hearts of many, including my guest, Rabbi Brad Hirschfield. Our heartfelt discussion traverses the rugged terrain of conflict, weaving through the emotional ties that bind Rabbi Hirschfield to the region, and the universal struggle to balance empathy with moral clarity in the face of violence. His reflections on the Israeli special forces captain, whose resilience in the aftermath of tragedy encapsulates the undying flame of hope, are a testament to the strength of the human spirit.
Show Notes:
Hope and Rage: A Rabbi Reflects on the Hamas Incursion by Rabbi Hirschfield
On Moral Atrocity by David Watson
CLAL -The National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership
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Website: https://churchandmain.org/
YouTube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4CzMELfEV0oUYfbjdhdjqgrT3w8fHglj
This podcast is a labor of love. It’s free to everyone, but there are costs associated with making this podcast available. Would you consider becoming a paid subscriber? It’s $5/month or $60/year. Thanks!
Get full access to Church and Main at churchandmain.substack.com/subscribe
52 min

About Church and Main

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Church and Main is a podcast at the intersection of faith and modern life. Join Pastor Dennis Sanders as he shares the stories of faith interacting with the ever-changing world of the 21st century.