Interesting Times

By New York Times OpinionSociety & Culture News

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Interesting Times episodes

October 01 We Are Clueless About What’s Coming
Nick Bostrom rose to prominence for predicting artificial intelligence doom more than a decade ago — garnering support from figures like Elon Musk, Sam Altman and Bill Gates. But now he’s retreating from those warnings, focusing his attention on a more complex question: What if A.I. succeeds beyond humanity’s wildest imaginations? Will we be bored out of our minds? Are we too infantile to understand what’s coming?
Guest host Spencer Klavan, the associate editor at the Claremont Review of Books, presses Bostrom on the potential uses and abuses of superintelligence, rationalist ethics and what makes us human.
Note: As we work on relaunching “Interesting Times,” the show will feature a series of guest hosts in the coming months.
00:00 Intro
01:07 What is P(doom)?
04:44 Bostrom’s Doomsday Scenarios
06:14 Vulnerable World Hypothesis
08:27 The Best-Case Scenario of Superintelligence
12:37 The Problems We Can’t Solve in Utopia
14:47 Paths to Superintelligence
17:02 What Kind of Utopia Do We Want to Live In?
21:56 The Values Worth Keeping in Utopia
32:42 Bostrom’s Influence on Effective Altruism
38:04 Are Existential Warnings Helpful?
43:52 The Trajectory of Humanity
46:51 Why Bostrom Wants Utopia
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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51 min
September 24 How Worried Should We Be About the Midterm Elections?
Many Americans are losing faith in elections. Proposed solutions from across the political spectrum to restore faith in the process — early voting, mail-in ballot restrictions and voter ID laws — seem to have the opposite effect.
But lack of trust in elections is a symptom of a broader problem: America is living through an era of democratic dissatisfaction. That’s what the New York University law professor Richard Pildes argues on this episode of “Interesting Times.” He and the guest host, Sarah Isgur, the editor of SCOTUSblog, discuss why Americans are so worried about the midterms and how to fix our electoral system and restore trust.
00:00 Existential Election Anxiety
02:38 Era of Democratic Dissatisfaction
04:21 Were Recent Election Reforms a Mistake?
06:09 Campaign Finance Reform
09:22 SCOTUS and Trump’s Mail-In Ballot Executive Order
13:57 Why Did Trump Target Absentee Ballots?
20:32 Should There Be a National Voter Database?
23:58 Proof Of Citizenship Debate
29:48 What Should SCOTUS Do?
35:47 Partisan Manipulation in Elections
42:24 Can the Midterms Be Stolen?
44:51 Closing Thoughts
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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46 min
September 10 Trump Is Getting Even Richer. Is That a Crime?
President Trump made more than $2 billion last year — far exceeding his presidential salary of $400,000. His growing fortunes are raising questions about his allegiance to investors, particularly foreign ones, as he makes policy decisions and shapes the direction of the country.
The contributing Opinion writer Christopher Caldwell and the Harvard law professor Jack Goldsmith discuss how the president has amassed this fortune, whether it’s legal and if the United States is becoming a kleptocracy.
Note: As we work on relaunching 'Interesting Times,' the show will feature a series of guest hosts in the coming months.
00:00 Why Trump’s Wealth Is Unusual
01:30 Presidential Ethics Before Trump
02:28 Trump’s Crypto and Foreign Money Flows
06:12 Is It a Kleptocracy?
07:36 What’s Unconstitutional About Trump’s Finances
10:43 The U.A.E. and Trump’s Foreign Policy
13:41 How Trump’s Weaponization Is Changing Government
16:42 What Congress Could Do
18:59 The Tit for Tat Weaponization
24:13 Can Trump Pardon Himself?
26:57 The “Deep-State” Crackdown
36:59 Oversight Norms and Voter Verdict
42:46 Closing Thoughts
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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44 min
August 27 Ross Douthat and Ezra Klein on the Art of Persuasion
“Interesting Times” is on a brief hiatus. Before we return next month, we’re bringing you an interview from “The Ezra Klein Show” with Ross Douthat about his 17 years as a conservative columnist at The New York Times. But Ross and Ezra go back even further, to the nascent days of political blogging. They talk about the seismic changes they’ve witnessed in the media industry over the years and the art of changing minds.
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website here.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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1 hr 14 min
August 13Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint for a 150-Year Life: Is It Worth It?
For my final episode as host of “Interesting Times,” I wanted a fitting finale — a conversation that encapsulates the ambition of this show: examining how seemingly radical ideas are steadily entering the mainstream of American politics, technology and culture. Few ideas are as radical as the hope of significant life extension and the quest to live forever.
My guest today thinks he can outrun death. After selling his tech company for hundreds of millions of dollars and experiencing a profound religious crisis, Bryan Johnson turned his own body into the ultimate science project, centered on an explicit mission: Don’t die.
But why does Johnson want to live forever, and what lessons can his algorithmically driven lifestyle bring to the rest of us?
It’s been an honor hosting this podcast and navigating these strange waters with you. “Interesting Times” will be back with new episodes and new hosts in the fall.
0:00 Why Bryan Johnson Wants to Defeat Death

1:18 The Core Premise of "Don't Die" vs. Immortality

3:26 Selling Braintree/Venmo & Personal Collapse

6:33 Leaving the Mormon Church & Searching for Meaning

7:45 Launching Project Blueprint: Body as Philosophy

11:35 Bryan Johnson’s Daily Longevity Routine & Biological Age Metrics

15:06 How AI Builds "Autonomous Health" for the Human Body

17:58 The Best Habits to Optimize Health: Sleep & Heart Rate

21:32 Blueprint Products, Supplements, & Testing

23:46 Reversing Biological Aging: Saunas & HBOT

25:24 Can Psychedelics Extend Lifespan? Psilocybin Longevity Trials

31:07 How Falling in Love Has Changed His Perspective

34:06 Diagnosed with an Incurable Autoimmune Disease

35:51 The Risk of Gerontocracy

53:53 Can Humanity Defeat Death? Societal & Philosophical Impacts
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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1 hr 5 min
August 06 Scott Galloway: America Abandoned Its ‘Unremarkable’ Young Men
What does a liberal solution to the masculinity crisis look like? As men fall behind in the American educational system and the economy, they’re looking for meaning — and often find it in the wrong places.
My guest today is Scott Galloway, a professor at N.Y.U.’s Stern School of Business. Galloway is an unlikely masculinity guru — he’s a liberal academic, a business founder and a married father.
He had a lot to say about the social and economic reasons young men seem to be struggling, but he’s still optimistic about the future.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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44 min
July 30How Older Americans Hoard the Future
American leaders are staying in office past their prime. Boomers are reluctant to relinquish control — from political offices to corner offices — to the detriment of their juniors. In a society where the elderly hold so much power, should younger generations revolt?

My guest today is Samuel Moyn, a professor at Yale Law School, and he argues that American democracy is distorted by the power of the old. We discuss how seniors have hoarded wealth and influence and how Americans can renew an intergenerational compact.
0:00 The Tyranny of the Elderly

2:01 From Joe Biden to Mitch McConnell

4:19 Europe's Anti-Gerontocracy

5:15 Politicians are the ‘Tip of the Iceberg’

7:07 The Dark Side of Longevity

9:40 How Age Impacts Policy

15:10 The Age Wealth Gap

20:21 How About Millennials?

23:28 Age Limits and Youth Power

38:14 Care Hoarding and Family Burdens

44:54 The Assisted Suicide Debate

50:14 Personal Stakes
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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53 min
July 23Iran, China, Canada? A Defense of Trump’s Grand Strategy
Is President Trump’s grand strategy unraveling? The United States is at war with Iran, China is ascendant, Russia and Ukraine are stalemated and American allies are openly questioning our commitment to them.
Elbridge Colby, the under secretary of defense for policy, joins me to discuss the state of America’s foreign policy and he makes the case that Trump’s approach to our allies and adversaries is making us stronger.
0:00 - Intro

1:24 - What Is Trump’s Approach to Foreign Policy?

5:00 - Is China Still America’s Main Rival?

7:08 - Colby’s Strategy of Denial in the Pacific

9:58 - How to Avoid a War with China & Taiwan

12:18 - Can U.S. Aircraft Carriers & Bases Survive a Pacific Conflict?

16:43 - Is the Iran War Draining Our Weapons and Resources?

17:49 - The U.S. Military Strategy in Iran War

19:44 - Does the Middle East Conflict Help or Hurt China?

22:04 - Trying and Failing to Reopen the Strait of Hormuz

28:13 - The Parallels of Iran to the Vietnam and Iraq Wars

33:17 - Trump’s Strategy With Russia & Ukraine

40:49 - "NATO 3.0" & Returning to the Cold War

43:21 - Did the Pentagon Try to Cut Support for Ukraine?

46:28 - How "Middle Powers" Fail

49:30 - Greenland, Canada, and the Monroe Doctrine

52:22 - Canada: Neighbor or 51st State?

54:23 - What We Expect From Allies
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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1 hr 4 min
July 16A Vision of a ‘Society Without Capitalism’
Democratic socialists are having a moment. But can they actually remake the Democratic Party — and the American economy — in their image? My guest today, Bhaskar Sunkara, is longtime democratic socialist, and he makes the case that socialism has a universal appeal that transcends our current politics and will ultimately triumph against capitalism.
0:00 Intro

1:24 The rise of democratic socialism

5:00 Why is this a breakthrough moment for Democratic Socialism?

8:24 Class Realities: The demographics of socialist voters

9:26 The intellectual foundations of the American left

11:02 What socialists want: Affordable housing, Medicare for All

15:55 Socialist housing policy: construction, rent control, public housing

18:17 The socialist approach to AI and technological change

22:16 The case for unions

24:18 Is Democratic Socialism compatible with capitalism?

25:57 Class conflict vs. the identity politics of the wokeness era

29:00 The ideological conflict between Hillary Clinton liberals and the Bernie Sanders left

30:40 This Socialist wants the left to stop hating America

36:38 Why Israel-Palestine and anti-imperialism are central issues for Democratic Socialists

45:51 Luigi Mangione and the illiberal left

50:37 Is Zohran Mamdani a moderate?

51:54 Was Joe Biden's presidency a socialist experiment?

55:42 Raising taxes to expand the welfare state
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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59 min
July 09‘ I'm Worried About Weimar America’
The work of Rod Dreher has a consistent theme: doom. He believes the collapse of Christianity has ushered civilizational decline in Europe, that we’ve traded our humanity for comfort, and he worries that totalitarianism is around the corner for the United States. “I’m worried about Weimar America,” he tells me. “It may not be Hitler 2.0, it may not be Stalin 2.0. It might be something all American, but it’s not going to be what we’re used to.” It’s best not to dismiss him; he’s been right before. We discuss how we got here and the dangers that still lie ahead when we grant godlike powers to our technology.
0:00 - Intro

1:41 - The role of Christianity in Western society

12:26 - Free speech in Western Europe

17:40 - Immigration and de-Christianization

23:55 - Viktor Orbán's Hungary

34:50 - "Weimar America" and the coming crisis

46:45 - Dreher's personal journey

55:12 - Dark re-enchantment and A.I. as a "vector for the demonic"
(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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1 hr 3 min