Episode 13 of Cited Authorities. A conversation with Ben Tompkins, former trial attorney in the Justice Department's Tax Division and former Assistant United States Attorney in Los Angeles.

Tompkins is now a partner at Nardiello Turanchik Tompkins. We talked about why he left class-action defense for the Tax Division, a high-profile Internal Revenue Code section 6103 donor-disclosure case, and teaching trial lawyers at the National Advocacy Center.

We also discussed the DOJ's recent structural changes and the National Fraud Enforcement Division, eggshell audits, the move from government to defense work, and advice to newer attorneys considering a government job.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

“Power is a tool. You know, it’s like fire.”

Jeffrey Pfeffer is the Thomas D. Dee II Professor of Organizational Behavior at Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he has taught since 1979. He created Stanford GSB’s Paths to Power course and is the author or co-author of 16 books, including 7 Rules of Power.

We begin with power, agency, self-advocacy, and why good work remains invisible unless someone makes it visible. Pfeffer also explains why relationships and distribution may become more valuable as AI makes products easier to reproduce.

The full conversation then turns to employer-sponsored health care: ERISA fiduciary responsibility, conflicted intermediaries, direct contracting, cash prices, unpaid claims, prior authorization, the Bryant Lin case, and why he tells lawyers to follow the money.

This is the public edition. Paid subscribers receive the complete Subscriber Edition and the private podcast feed.

Subscribe at https://citedauthorities.substack.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/how-the-irs-dirty-dozen-was-created

Terry Lemons spent more than 26 years at the IRS, 11 of them leading communications for the agency. Before that he covered the 1992 presidential campaign, Congress, and the White House as a newspaper reporter. Today he handles public relations at Frost Law, and he just wrote a book about the 1926 St. Louis Cardinals.

He joined the IRS in 1998, right after the Roth hearings had put the agency through the wringer, and he stayed through six commissioners from Charles Rossotti to Danny Werfel. Around 2002 he built the Dirty Dozen, the IRS list of tax scams that still runs every year. As he tells it: "I branded it. . . . Went back to that old movie called The Dirty Dozen, and came up with 12 tax scams."

We talk about why he left reporting to go inside government, how he tried to humanize an agency people love to hate, and why he thinks so many taxpayers get pulled into scams. "That tax refund for a lot of people is the biggest single financial transaction they make all year," he says, and that is exactly what the scammers count on.

Then we get to baseball. His new book is "The Year St. Louis Became a Baseball Town: The Cardinals, Babe Ruth, and the 1926 World Series. He walks through the story behind Grover Cleveland Alexander, Branch Rickey inventing the minor league system, and a game seven that ended with Babe Ruth caught stealing second base.


Terry's book: The Year St. Louis Became a Baseball Town (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Midwest local bookstores) 

Show notes: citedauthorities.com/episodes/terry-lemons 


0:00 Cold open
0:13 Introduction
1:07 Covering the 1992 Clinton campaign
3:46 Leaving journalism for the IRS in 1998
6:38 Making the news instead of reporting it
7:42 Creating the Dirty Dozen
9:50 Tax scams, refunds, and TikTok
11:49 What drew him to journalism
13:36 Huntley, Brinkley, and wartime Washington
14:41 Movie knowledge and the Oscars swag bags

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/why-direct-examination-is-harder-than-cross

C. Evan Stewart practiced law for more than 47 years, most of it in securities and financial services litigation, and retired from Cohen & Gresser in 2025. He tried major cases in private practice without ever working as a federal prosecutor, which is rare on Wall Street. He taught for three decades at Fordham, Cornell, and Brooklyn Law School, has written roughly 300 articles, and has written for the New York Law Journal since 1990. 

Stewart is the author of four books, including Myron Taylor: The Man Nobody Knew, which draws on two decades of archival research into FDR's secret back channel to the Vatican during World War II.

His latest book, William Henry Seward's Quest to Save the Nation During the Secession Winter (1860-1861), is available now from Twelve Tables Press. Stewart unearths an overlooked chapter of American history: William Henry Seward's relentless effort to hold the Union together during the months between Lincoln's election and inauguration. 

Evan and Alexander start with how the practice has changed: e-discovery, lateral moves and compensation, and the mentorship that COVID interrupted. Then they get to trial work. Evan explains why he thinks direct examination is harder than cross, and why he tells a witness to be the same person on cross that they were on direct. A jury notices when they aren't. 

The last stretch of episode is focused on history. Evan's new book argues the Civil War was not inevitable. He points to Lincoln's decision to resupply Fort Sumter, over Seward's objection, as the choice that set the war in motion, and he is skeptical that any of it had to happen the way it did. 

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/john-pontius-from-army-jag-to-tax-controversy

John Pontius is the founder of Pontius Tax Law, PLLC. He started as an Army JAG officer, deployed to Iraq with the 1st Armored Division, earned a Tax LL.M. from Georgetown on the GI Bill, and worked in the international corporate tax group at KPMG before starting his own firm eight years ago. 

We talk about building a tax controversy practice, the three-question test he uses to decide whether to take a case, how military training shows up in running a small firm, and what he'd tell a young lawyer thinking about going out on their own.

John's firm: Pontius Tax Law, PLLC 

Show notes: citedauthorities.com/episodes/john-pontius

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/running-the-cpsc-and-the-safe-rental-car-act

Pamela Gilbert spent years pressuring federal agencies from the outside, at U.S. Public Interest Research Group and Public Citizen's Congress Watch. Then she ran one. As Executive Director of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, she answered to Congress, industry, and a career staff, and learned what changes when the outside advocate becomes the implementer.

In this episode: the path from Tufts activism to Ralph Nader's network, how a small, underfunded agency drives outsized impact through recalls and the bully pulpit, what agency independence really protects, the Raechel and Jacqueline Houck Safe Rental Car Act, the anti-monopoly movement, and the decades-long corporate effort to shut the courthouse doors to regular people.

Pamela Gilbert is a Partner at Cuneo Gilbert Flannery and LaDuca in Washington, DC. She chairs the board of the American Antitrust Institute and serves on the board of the National Consumers League.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/building-a-tax-controversy-practice

Episode 7 of Cited Authorities. A conversation with Glen Frost, Founder and Managing Partner of Frost Law.

Glen is an attorney, a CPA, and a Certified Financial Planner, with an LL.M. in Taxation. He is admitted to practice in Maryland, the District of Columbia, Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Arizona, and before the U.S. Tax Court, the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, and the Supreme Court of the United States. He started as a solo practitioner and built Frost Law into an 80-plus person multidisciplinary firm of attorneys, CPAs, enrolled agents, and Certified Fraud Examiners.

In this episode, Glen and Alex talked about how Glen built Frost Law from a one-lawyer office. The first hire. The pivot to a multidisciplinary firm. Scaling across multiple state bars.  Expert-witness work in tax sentencing. IRS workforce cuts and how they land on clients waiting on audits and appeals, the Employee Retention Credit era and what it did to Frost Law's growth, penalty regime questions and circuit splits practitioners are watching, and the advice Glen gives young lawyers weighing Big Law, accounting firms, and tax boutiques.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/advising-congress-on-tax-simplification

Episode 6 of Cited Authorities. A conversation with Fred Brown, Director of the Graduate Tax Program at the University of Baltimore School of Law since 1990.
Fred started as an electrical engineer at Rutgers, went to Georgetown Law for his JD summa cum laude, then to NYU Law for his Tax LLM. He spent two years at Shaw Pittman in DC and taught as an acting assistant professor at NYU before joining UBalt in fall 1990. He has coached UBalt Law's tax moot court team for over 30 years and co-authored Understanding Taxation of Business Entities with Professor Walter Schwidetzky. In this episode, Fred and Alex discuss why engineers make good tax lawyers, how Fred recruited Tax Court judges and former DOJ Tax Division leaders to teach, Fred's year advising the Joint Committee on Taxation during the 2000-2001 simplification study, Glen Frost's ascent from UBalt Law to founding one of Maryland's fastest-growing law firms, and what running nine marathons has taught Fred about preparation.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Episode 5 of Cited Authorities. A Saturday-afternoon conversation with Ebony M. Thompson, Baltimore City Solicitor. She is Baltimore's chief legal officer, and the first woman and first openly gay person to hold the role in the city's nearly 300-year history. We talked about a career that runs from a Baltimore public-school internship to City Hall: economics at Brown, the Marine Corps Reserve, wealth management at UBS in Midtown Manhattan on the morning of September 11, a successful real estate career, law school in her thirties, eight years at Venable, the call from Jim Shea, and the work she now leads as City Solicitor. We also talked about recording more than 228,000 city properties on a blockchain, an eight-year fight with her insurer over IVF coverage, and the friend whose advice at a Harvard graduation prompted her to follow her calling and go to law school.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com

Full Subscriber Edition: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/p/how-to-build-a-career-in-tax-law

Ellis Duncan is the Director of the Graduate Tax Program at Georgetown University Law Center. He built his tax career through Ernst & Young's M&A group in New York City and hedge fund work at Ropes & Gray. In 2011, Ellis had a networking meeting with Albert Lauber, then the director of Georgetown Law's Graduate Tax Program, to ask about transitioning into government. Ellis walked out with a job offer as Assistant Director of the Graduate Tax Program. After Judge Lauber was appointed to the United States Tax Court in 2013, Ellis became Director of the Graduate Tax Program.

In this episode, Ellis discusses his path to leading the Graduate Tax Program and why helping his students build their careers is the most rewarding work he's ever done.

Show Notes: https://citedauthorities.com/episodes/ellis-duncan
Georgetown Law Office of Graduate Careers: https://www.law.georgetown.edu/your-life-career/career-exploration-professional-development/for-graduate-students/

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Cited Authorities is a legal interview podcast hosted by Alexander Powell, a tax attorney in Washington, DC. New episodes every other Wednesday.

Join Cited Authorities for full-video Subscriber Editions of eligible conversations: https://citedauthorities.substack.com/subscribe

All episodes and show notes: https://citedauthorities.com

The Cited Authorities podcast is produced by Cited Authorities LLC, a media and software company. It is not a law firm. This episode is general information and commentary, not legal advice, and listening does not create an attorney-client relationship. The views expressed are those of the speakers alone and do not represent any firm, employer, or client. If you need advice on your situation, talk to a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

LISTEN:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cited-authorities/id1879396186
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0VVpaSN7rcg0jbSTbL6Jld
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitedAuthorities
Website: https://citedauthorities.com