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The world watched the news in horror as the sightseeing helicopter flying over the river tore into pieces. As the main rotor and tail broke off, the cabin plunged into the waters below, with the pilot and a family of five trapped inside. Just days after the tragedy that had taken the lives of his sister, brother-in-law, niece, and two nephews, the brother was at the site honoring his loved ones.

Who gets to lead when the founder is still in the room? For David and Jonathan Shibley, that question came with another relationship to protect: father and son.

On Life After Ministry, I talk with them about the succession at Global Advance and the choices that helped it work.

Jonathan served for ten years before becoming president, giving the board time to observe him and ministry partners time to know him. David continued serving while publicly supporting Jonathan's leadership.

We also discuss the pressure of comparison, the weight of becoming responsible for other people's livelihoods, and what their wives experienced along the way.

For a board preparing its own leadership handoff, this conversation gives an honest look at the preparation and personal care that a healthy succession requires.

Key Takeaways

• Give the board time to assess readiness. Jonathan's last name came with expectations. Years of service gave the board an opportunity to observe his work before appointing him president.
• Prepare people for the relationship as well as the announcement. Staff and ministry partners had opportunities to see David and Jonathan work together before the presidency changed hands.
• Give the successor room to lead differently. David affirmed Jonathan publicly and kept their disagreements between them, helping people understand whose leadership to follow.
• Ask what the family will carry. Travel demands and conversations at home affected their wives differently. Each family needed room to name what worked for them.
• Plan for meaningful life after the role. The board and Jonathan addressed David and Naomi's financial future, and David continued serving through writing and other ministry work.

Chapter Markers

00:00 A father-son succession worth learning from
01:21 How the possibility of succession began
06:22 Serving without a promised title
08:38 The three envelopes story
11:13 Preparing stakeholders and releasing authority
16:31 Giving a successor opportunities to learn
19:08 Following a father everyone knows
21:06 The weight of becoming president
27:07 Holding a ministry and an identity with humility
31:17 What their wives and families carried
36:10 When the founder remains involved
38:56 Meaningful ministry after the presidency
44:07 The work of Global Advance

Global Advance:
https://globaladvance.org/

Global Advance podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/global-advance-podcasts/id6445826567

Ministry Transitions:
https://ministrytransitions.com/

Music licensed through Soundstripe.

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Andrew Hopper saw his church plant grow to 1000 in two years, and almost nobody understood how hard that actually was. Especially when you planted at 28 years-old.

In this conversation, he tackles...

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Navigating Depression: Hope for Heavy Hearts – This humble booklet is by no means a comprehensive study of depression; rather, it is a collection of reflections and lessons that Joni has learned in her long battle against the thick fog of dark emotions. It’s her hope that the following insights will help equip you to be more than a conqueror in your fight to find emotional and mental health.

Use the coupon code: RADIOGIFT for free shipping!

*Limit one copy per person*

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Thank you for listening! Your support of Joni and Friends helps make this show possible. Joni and Friends envisions a world where every person with a disability finds hope, dignity, and their place in the body of Christ. Become part of the global movement today at www.joniandfriends.org.

Find more encouragement on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and YouTube.

Jesus says to us what he said to the disciples on the stormy sea. “It is I, don’t be afraid” (John 6:20). The literal translation of what Jesus said is, “I AM, don’t be afraid.”

I AM. That’s God’s name. When we wonder if God is coming, he answers with his name, I AM. When we wonder if he is able, he declares, I AM. When we see nothing but darkness, feel nothing but doubt, and wonder if God is near or aware, the welcome answer from Jesus is this: I AM.

Pause for a moment and let him tell you his name. Your greatest need is his presence. Yes, you want this storm to pass. Yes, you want the winds to still. But yes, yes, yes, you want to know and need to know and must know that the great I AM is near. Remember friends, you are never alone.

Read more You Are Never Alone: Trust in the Miracle of God's Presence & Power

For more inspirational messages please visit Max Lucado.

In September 1963, Welsh artist John Petts heard the news that a racially motivated bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, had killed four African American girls. Wanting to help, he offered to replace the church’s shattered stained-glass window. The people of Wales soon raised the funds.

Most leaders will tell you they want innovation. The harder question is what happens inside an organization when a new idea challenges how things have always been done.

Giselle Jenkins, a Senior Consultant at Best Christian Workplaces, explains how tradition, founding DNA, and a deep commitment to excellence can quietly shut down new ideas, even in organizations that sincerely want to change. She walks leaders through why conflict is easier to navigate while an idea is still taking shape, how innovation moves from creativity to testing to implementation, and why starting with small mistakes builds a team's capacity for change. For leaders who sense their people have stopped offering ideas, this offers a practical guide to what to examine first.

You'll Gain Insight On

• How to recognize when tradition, rather than mission, is driving your strategy
• Why innovation and excellence can pull against each other, and how to tell which your culture values most
• Why inviting people in early means facing disagreement early, and why that is worth it
• How to build your team's capacity for change by starting small and learning from mistakes

Subscribe to Called to Flourish and share this conversation with a fellow leader. Access full show notes, resources, and transcript at: https://workplaces.org/podcast/how-to-encourage-innovation-in-christian-led-workplaces

We all know how important sleep is for our health and happiness. So why do we resist going to bed, even when we know we should?

In this episode of Office Hours, I explore the science of sleep and how it affects our well-being. I explain why we sometimes sacrifice sleep for a little extra time to ourselves, a phenomenon known as "revenge bedtime procrastination," and what it reveals about our need for control. I also share two ways to change your relationship with sleep, along with my own nightly routine.

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Brought to you by:

• Noble Mobile—With Noble, there is only one plan: The No-Bull Plan. It’s simple. It’s transparent. And if you use less data, you get cash back. Get an exclusive offer at: https://noblemobile.com/arthurbrooks.

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Where to find Arthur Brooks: 

• Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• In-person Retreats: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://retreats.arthurbrooks.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.arthurbrooks.com/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/arthurbrooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/arthurcbrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/ArthurBrooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuyFRjJQFGCKzfHTBvWM6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-c-brooks/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

—

Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(05:42) The sleep deprivation epidemic

(08:27) How sleep affects your health and well-being

(13:46) Four common barriers to sleep

(15:58) Bedtime procrastination

(19:22) Revenge bedtime procrastination 

(24:22) #1. Quell your inner tyrant

(28:42) #2. Go from physical to metaphysical 

(36:14) My personal sleep routine

(41:33) Q&A: Dealing with shifting ambition 

(42:34) Q&A: Why men struggle more with friendship than women

—

Referenced:

• The Meaning of Your Life: Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness: themeaningofyourlife.com

• Arthur’s newsletter: htt

If your employees know what’s expected but still aren’t showing up, it’s time to rethink how you’re holding them accountable. 

In this episode, head coach John Felkins talks with a business owner about how to create clear, outcome-based expectations and build a culture where your team knows their commitments matter.

Next Steps:

·      Download our free Key Results Area template to set crystal clear expectations for your team and easily hold them accountable.

·      Not sure what to do next in your business? Let’s figure it out together. Book a free 30-minute consult call with the EntreLeadership® Team.

·      Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message.

·      Order Dave’s most recent EntreLeadership book, Build a Business You Love.

·      Get EntreLeadership’s free weekly newsletter: expert advice and practical tips from the same playbook we used to build Ramsey Solutions into a $300 million company.

·      Attend our world-class leadership conference, EntreLeadership Summit.

·      Stop guessing. Get a plan built for your business and someone who holds you to it. Find out which coaching option is right for you.

·      Bad hires. Strategies that never get off the ground. 60-hour workweeks. Sleepless nights. EntreLeadership Master Series is where you trade all that for the exact systems our Executive Team used to scale Ramsey Solutions to $300 million. Don’t wait until seats are sold out.

Connect With Our Sponsors:

·      Go to BELAY Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource!

·       See if Christian Healthcare Ministries Groups are the right fit for your organization.

·      Visit NetSuite today to learn more.

Listen to More From Ramsey Network:

️ The Ramsey Show

The Ramsey Show Highlights

The Dr. John Delony Show

Smart Money Happy Hour

George Kamel

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It's a ridiculously common misconception that you should be telling people YOUR story. You shouldn't.

Because in your story, the hero is..... You.

Instead you should be inviting customers into a story where THEY are the hero. It's a big paradigm shift. But if you can make that shift, people will actually start paying attention to you instead of tuning out when you start telling them how many employees you have and the square footage of your warehouse.

The marketing that works follows just a few simple principles that make it easy to understandable, memorable, and impossible to overlook. That's why StoryBrand has a free guide: The Four Rules of Messaging PDF will teach you those principles and in just a few minutes you'll have a simple but powerful framework for improving every message you create from your website and emails to your ads and sales calls.

Download your free copy of The Four Rules of Messaging: https://storybrand.com/the-4-rules-of-messaging?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=4rules-lead-gen-2026&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=sbpodcast

Ready to clarify your message and grow your business?

Attend StoryBrand Your Business LIVE to learn how to explain what you do in a way customers instantly understand:
https://storybrand.com/live/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=sbyourbusiness&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_workshop 

Visit StoryBrand.com for business training, messaging tools, and resources to help you grow:
https://storybrand.com/?utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_campaign=storybrand&utm_term=sbpod&utm_content=SB_home 

Follow on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/storybrand

Connect on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/storybrand