Club Sandwich

Worried about your parent's brain? And your own?

If you are looking after an ageing parent, you have probably wondered whether you will go the same way. Sarah talks to the ABC's Norman Swan, physician, broadcaster and author of 'The Brain Cliff', about what he has learned from the research and from a life of reporting on health.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Norman says the fear of falling off a brain cliff into dementia is common, and that the cliff and how bright you are are two separate things.

- Norman on his own parents, and what it was like to be a sandwich generation son from the other side of the world.
- Why Norman says the brain cliff is only about a quarter genetic, and what that means if your parent has dementia.
- Brain change rather than brain ageing, and the idea of scaffolding in the brain.
- Why a busy, complicated life can train your brain, and why stress and rumination are different things.
- The kind of stress Norman calls toxic: feeling that other people are running your life.
- Why letting your mind wander and doing nothing are good for you.
- Norman on dementia risk, which he says is falling in Australia at any given age.
- Alcohol, supplements and hormones: what he found, and what he has changed in his own life.
- Why looking after yourself comes first, and why unloading some of the work is a good thing.

This episode is general information, not medical advice. Talk to your doctor about your own health.

Credits:
Club Sandwich is brought to you by Vera, helping families caring for ageing parents navigate this stage of life so you don't have to do it alone.

Check out 'Put The Kettle On' – Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How many people are in the sandwich generation? Until today, nobody knew.

The number: 2.43 million people aged 35–70 currently help or care for an ageing parent. This number is expected to rise to over 6 million within 10 years.

In this episode, Sarah Macdonald is joined by Melissa Reader (CEO of Vera and Commissioning Editor of Club Sandwich) to discuss Vera's new, nationally representative research conducted in partnership with YouGov. They explain why this group has been missing from major reports, and explore knock-on effects for carers' work and finances.

"People often aren't counting themselves," says Sarah. "They're not counting the labour of love they do as labour; they're seeing it as love. But if you can get help in that labour, then you've got more time to love."

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this bonus episode, Sarah Macdonald is joined by Melissa Reader to discuss new research into Australia's 'invisible army' of sandwich generation carers.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She was one of Sydney's best door bitches. Now she's CEO of Autism Australia. 

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Sarah talks to Nicole Rogerson, CEO of Autism Australia and mother of Jack, about raising a neurodivergent child while also navigating ageing parents, undiagnosed traits in older relatives, and midlife self-diagnosis.
This Week's Hack: Make sure the kids are looked after, no matter what happens. Start legacy and estate planning early, regardless of how much the family has, and plan for the scenarios nobody wants to think about.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Raising a child with autism while caring for ageing parents
- Estate planning, trusts and guardianship for a disabled child's future
- Grandparents who show undiagnosed neurodivergent traits
- Midlife autism and ADHD diagnosis, and when a label actually helps
- Talking to neurodivergent loved ones about death and grief

Featured in this episode: 
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Nicole Rogerson — CEO, Autism Australia.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

She used to let everyone else win. Now nobody's safe at bowls.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode: Sarah visits a dementia day programme run by ECH in Adelaide to meet Gina, who's living with dementia; her husband David; and daughters Marie and Michelle. Gina has become more competitive, more outgoing and more herself since her diagnosis. Vanessa Stanley-Gordon, who runs ECH's programmes, explains why that's not as unusual as it sounds.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Dementia day programmes as respite and quality of life
- Personality change after a dementia diagnosis, masking and early signs
- How relationships with pets can be an 'early warning system'
- Carer guilt, and why taking a break isn't abandonment
- Why vascular dementia isn't the worst news you can hear
- Commonwealth Home Support and user-pays access routes

Featured in this episode: 
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Gina — Living with dementia, and thriving.
Marie and Michelle — Gina's daughters.
Vanessa Stanley-Gordon — Runs ECH's day programmes.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Stan Grant, journalist, author and Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi man, joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about caring for his ageing parents, why he sees himself as a 'provider, not a carer', and what eldership really means. Along the way, he shares the process behind his new book, visions of John Coltrane, and wisdom gleaned from a lifelong love of music, books and family.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Stan on confronting his father's physical frailty for the first time, realising he's more of a provider than a hands-on carer, and what he's learned about eldership as he approaches it himself.

This Week's Reframe: Not everyone in a family is built for hands-on care, and that's not a failing. Knowing which role you play, and letting others play theirs, is what actually lets a family function without one person burning out.

Send this to anyone who feels guilty they're not the sibling doing the hands-on care, or anyone quietly renegotiating what role they play as their parents age.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Confronting a parent's physical frailty for the first time
- Why "provider, not carer" is a useful reframe for family caregiving guilt
- In-home support services and the role of extended family
- What eldership means once you're the one expected to carry it
- Forgiveness, and not expecting closure from your parents

Featured in this episode: 
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Stan Grant — Journalist, author and Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi man. His most recent book is 'When Words Fail Us: Truth Beyond Time'.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music 'Club Sandwich' — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Maggie Beer, cook, author and founder of the Maggie Beer Foundation, joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about food, ageing and why what's on the plate in an aged care home matters more than most families realise. 

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Maggie shares why aged care food is a wellbeing issue, not just a nutrition one, the physiology behind why older palates need more salt, sugar and flavour, and why leadership is the biggest predictor of whether a home's kitchen actually works for its residents.

This Week's Hack: Before you choose an aged care home for a parent, go and eat a meal there yourself, without telling them you're coming.

Send This To: Anyone touring aged care homes right now, or anyone who keeps dropping meals off to mum instead of cooking with her.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Why aged care food is a wellbeing issue, not just a nutrition one
- The one-line test for touring an aged care home
- How taste and smell change as we age, and what that means for cooking
- Cooking with your parent, not just for them
- Ageism, and the 80% of healthy ageing that's within our own control
- Maggie's own philosophy on staying creative, positive and purposeful with age

Featured in this episode: 
Sarah Macdonald — Veteran broadcaster and host.
Maggie Beer AO — Cook, author, co-host of The Cook and the Chef, and founder of the Maggie Beer Foundation, which trains aged care kitchens nationally.

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Pods (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Natalie Siegel-Brown spent years holding the government to account for the funding, administration and regulation of Australia's aged care system as the Inspector General of Aged Care. She's also part of the sandwich generation herself, raising an 11-year-old while supporting her own ageing parents.

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Natalie brings both her professional expertise and her own experience as a sandwich generation parent to unpack why a system built on compassion and dignity in law still fails the sandwich generation in practice — through year-long wait times, punishing co-payments, and a contested assessment algorithm.

This Week's Hack: Get in early. Don't wait for a crisis to start the aged care assessment process — the wait itself is often what accelerates decline.

Listener Letter / Send-this-to: Send this to anyone who feels gaslit by the aged care system and just wants to understand why it's this hard.

Topics covered in this episode:
- Natalie's own experience as a sandwich generation parent, alongside her expertise as the former Inspector General of Aged Care
- The real cost of long aged care wait times, financially and personally
- Co-payments, and how they hit pensioners hardest
- The contested aged care assessment algorithm
- What Denmark, Singapore and Thailand do differently
- Australia's own hidden success story: the Veterans' Care Nursing Program

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

" I always find that there's part of me here, and there's another part of me swimming with the fish in the sea at the same time."

In this episode, Indira Naidoo joins Sarah to talk about her new role with the  Sydney Theatre Company, spending time under her tree, and the importance of creativity in her life.

They reflect on rediscovering play and creativity in midlife, the limits of journalism in changing narratives, and how crafts, gardening, and making art can calm anxiety and restore balance.

Indira shares her approach to ageing as a natural cycle, prioritising presence and family time after years of night work, and learning from nature and finding joy. 

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"I'm alright, sweetheart. No, I don't need help." Every one of us has heard it.

Prue Bowden runs home care for 50,000 Australian families, which makes her the person everyone corners at parties to ask about a parent who won't accept a thing. Today, she's in the chair talking about what to actually do next. 

Ageing parents? You've got them. We've got you.

Content note: this episode covers ageing parents, dementia, hospital decline and loneliness. For support: Carer Gateway 1800 422 737. My Aged Care 1800 200 422 (myagedcare.gov.au). Dementia Australia's National Dementia Helpline 1800 100 500, 24/7 (dementia.org.au). Lifeline 13 11 14, 24/7.

JOIN THE CLUB: Visit clubsandwich.community to join the tribe, access resources, and find our private Facebook community.
SEND US YOUR QUESTION: [email protected]

In this episode:
The Conversation: Prue Bowden, Group CEO of Home Health at Australian Unity, joins Sarah Macdonald to talk about what actually keeps a parent at home — starting with her own mum and dad, in their late seventies, still sailing and still walking the dog, and the conversations she and her sister are already having about flat landings and handrails.

From there: the loneliness hiding inside "we want to keep her at home", now the banks have closed and the shopping has moved online; the eighteen-month-to-two-year wait for home care support and why you start the assessment before you think you need it; what care workers actually notice when they're in the house; why superannuation was designed to be spent; and what she'd say to a stretched, guilty listener, one carer to another.

This Week's Hack: Start the assessment before you think you need it. The wait for home care support runs 18 months to two years, so the time to get on the list is while your mum or dad is still well and still saying they're fine. And if they won't hear it from you, get the GP on side — a clinician saying it often lands where a daughter saying it doesn't.

Send this to: the sibling who keeps saying "she's fine, she'd tell us if she wasn't" — and anyone who's been told "I'm all right, sweetheart" one too many times.

A moment that stays: Sarah tells Prue she's the doctor at the party — the one everyone corners about a bad back, except it's always a parent who won't accept help. Prue's parents, meanwhile, are in their late seventies and doing their weights. "Everyone's doing weights."

Meet the regular Clubbers:
Melissa Reader — CEO of Vera and expert on Australia's ageing crisis.
Jo Lamble — Clinical psychologist specialising in guilt and family dynamics.
Dr Ginni Mansberg — GP and women's health advocate who tells it straight.
Dr Stephanie Ward — Geriatrician helping you understand when "old" becomes a crisis.
Kerry Milligan — Gogglebox star bringing humour and honesty to the sandwich generation.

About Prue Bowden: Group CEO, Home Health at Australian Unity, leading the team supporting around 50,000 home care customers around the country.

Topics covered in this episode:
- What to do when a parent refuses help, and when to accept that no means no
- The loneliness that comes with ageing at home, and why it's rising alongside dementia
- Preparing the family home early — flat landings, handrails, the flat way in
- The 18-month to two-year wait for home care support, and starting the assessment early
- What home care workers actually notice, and why they're the first to know
- Superannuation, means testing, and the families caught in the middle
- Staying at home with dementia, and why institutional care can't be the only answer
- Lifespan versus healthspan, and why strength training in your seventies matters

This episode was supported by Australian Unity, home health and care services — australianunity.com.au/clubsandwich.

With thanks to NSW Trustee and Guardian — search NSW Trustee and Guardian, or call 1300 10 20 30.

Vera is your candid companion as you care for an ageing parent. Have a look at https://vera.guide.

FACES (Families for Aged Care Equity and Support) is a family-led campaign asking for one honest count of the number of people waiting for their aged care funding and the people who die while they're waiting. Add your name at vera.guide/faces.

Put The Kettle On — Vera's free conversation guide: the five questions worth asking your ageing mum or dad, at putthekettleon.com.au

Credits:
Sarah Macdonald – Host + Executive Producer
Melissa Reader – Commissioning Editor, Executive Producer + Clubber
Justin McArthur – Executive Producer + Editor, for P. Zinner Podcasts (https://pzinner.com.au)
Thanks and kudos to Sean Wayland for our theme music Club Sandwich — hear more at https://seanwayland.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.