Rachel Zucker speaks with poet Sarah Vap about Sarah’s unpublished and evolving manuscript, sentimentality, extreme susceptibility, interruptibility, raising sons, toxic masculinity, the invisible violence of the state, and the extended emergency of mothering young children. Their conversation is informed by Sarah's presentation for Protean Acts: The Art of Reinvention, a panel for the 2017 Association of Writing Programs conference in Washington D.C., of which an excerpt is also included in the episode.