https://vimeo.com/432184265

Max Rameau and Netfa Freeman argue that defunding the police could lead to more private police forces protecting private property, with even less accountability to the public. They say Community Control is a transformative demand that changes who has power over policing. On theAnalysis.news podcast with Paul Jay.

 

Transcript

Paul Jay

Hi, I'm Paul Jay. Welcome to theAnalysis.news podcast.

I was in Baltimore during the Freddie Gray uprising, after the brutal murder of Freddie Gray, when he was put in a police van, knocked around so much in the van—and beaten before he was put in the van—that his neck was broken, and he died. There was a large uprising from the community: thousands of people in the streets, led by young black activists, then young black workers, joined by white students. It became a serious spontaneous movement. In fact, there was very little organization: People just hit the streets.

The demands that came out of that movement—to do with arresting the police that were involved, first of all; then civilian review of police, civilians on disciplinary boards, more training of police, community meetings with police—well, all of that happened, and nothing much changed. The basic role of the police in Baltimore and most cities across the country is to act as a buffer between people who own stuff and people who don't and to act as a hammer, especially in communities that are in deep poverty, which is much of Baltimore, but not all.

So what would have changed things? At the time, there was some discussion about community control of police, not just reviewing, not just oversight, but control. Now in the streets, a new demand has risen after the death of George Floyd. That demand is defunding the police, and it's catching on in most of the cities where protests are taking place. It's becoming one of the principal demands, but is defunding the police enough? Does it really address the problem?

Now joining us to discuss this issue from Washington, DC, are Max Rameau, who's a Haitian-born Pan-African theorist, a campaign strategist, author, and organizer with Pan-African Community Action (PACA), and Netfa Freeman, who's on the coordinating committee of The Black Alliance for Peace and an organizer in PACA, as well. They've coauthored recently an article, and soon to be a book, titled "A Critical Analysis of the Demand To Defund the Police." So, Max,  kick us off.

This demand to defund the police has really caught on. You got people chanting it in cities across the country. You have even some city councils considering it. Bill de Blasio of New York, at one point said, he was supporting it—but how much, and what it actually means? But you think there's real limits to that as a demand. What are they?

Max Rameau

If we remember back when Michael Brown was killed and Freddie Gray was killed—very close to one another, Mike Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and Freddie Gray in Baltimore—there were the same kind of uprisings that we're seeing today and the same kind of anguish and people being really upset with not only the specific case, but, overall, with the oppression that black people are facing in this country. And yet the demands that came out at that time were very different than the ones that we're seeing right now.

The demands were: police say the slogan "Black Lives Matter," which was an incredible cultural point, but it was not particularly effective as a demand; and, then, the other one was that police should be wearing body cameras.