We’re challenging each other—and the industry. Joel sits down with Vagrants co-founders Dustin Devlin and Winston Macdonald (Boston-based creative/production studio) and Tim Bradley, founder of Pennant Video Co., to unpack how today’s best studios are evolving beyond “project vendors” into true strategic partners.

From Boston’s “old guard” union shop era to today’s gray area where studios look a little like agencies (and brands build in-house teams), this conversation gets real about identity, positioning, and why the business of running a studio is the most interesting project you’ll ever take on. Tim breaks down Pennant’s mid-funnel Video Marketing Trifecta (Differentiation, Demonstration, Validation) and how productizing strategy turns scattered content needs into measurable results. The group also talks lifestyle companies, saying no to the wrong work, collaborating across sister companies, and the power of generosity over zero-sum thinking.

If you’re a founder navigating agency relationships, brand-direct work, or that “are we a studio or an agency?” identity crisis—this one’s for you.

What You’ll Learn

• Studio → Partner: How challenger studios win by solving problems, not just fulfilling briefs.
• Old Guard vs. New Guard: What changed in Boston’s market—and why it mirrors everywhere.
• Productized Strategy: Pennant’s mid-funnel framework (Differentiation / Demonstration / Validation).
• Saying No (On Purpose): Why Vagrants turned down ~half a million in “the wrong” work—and what that unlocked.
• Direct-to-Brand Reality: Working with modern in-house teams and where agencies still fit.
• Ops is Creative: Why COO thinking (utilization, team health, repeatable value) fuels better creative.
• Community > Competition: Forum, Fuse dinners, and the “generosity paradox” in action.

Guests

• Dustin Devlin — Co-Founder & CCO, Vagrants
• Winston — Co-Founder & COO, Vagrants
• Tim Bradley — Founder, Pennant Video Co.

Chapter Markers

• 00:00 Cold open: “We’re challenging the industry.”
• 01:00 Who’s in the room? Fuse dinner setup & why it matters.
• 04:30 Old guard vs. new guard: Boston’s production landscape.
• 07:40 The DSLR revolution and the cracks in the agency model.
• 12:30 From “we’re directors” to “we’re founders”: lifestyle company mindset.
• 16:30 Ops is a team sport: crossing the 5-year hump as owners.
• 21:45 Enter Tim: building business inside an agency—and the leap.
• 27:00 Pennant’s origin: launching without a reel, with a framework.
• 31:30 Awareness vs. Mid-Funnel: why sexy spots aren’t a strategy.
• 37:10 Vagrants + Pennant as sister companies: solving the whole problem.
• 45:00 Direct-to-brand, in-house teams, and agency adjacency.
• 47:05 The Video Marketing Trifecta (Differentiation / Demonstration / Validation).
• 51:00 From “we’ll throw in creative” to leading with strategy.
• 54:00 Hiring an ECD and offering strategic partnerships.
• 56:30 Objective partners, not yes-men: creative that moves the business.

Notable Quotes

• “Running a studio is the most interesting project we’ll ever work on.”
• “We’re not vendors—we’re partners. The work has to move the business.”
• “Generosity beats zero-sum. Rising tides really do raise all ships.”
• “Productize the why, not just the what.”

Links & Resources

• Forum — Joel’s private community for studio founders: joelpilger.com
• Fuse — Intimate founder dinners (mentioned in the episode)
• Pennant Video Co. — Mid-funnel video strategy and execution
• Vagrants — Creative/production studio

Credits

• Host: Joel Pilger
• Guests: Dustin Devlin, Winston Macdonald (Vagrants); Tim Bradley (Pennant Video Co.)
• Audio Partner: Coupe Studios — huge thanks for making this show sing.

Call to Action

If you’re serious about running a resilient studio that unleashes your best creative work, apply to join Forum at joelpilger.com. Many of these conversations continue there.